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Sweet Maya is Sick and has big lump!


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Please copy & paste fill the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems:

Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrite Level(Tank) 0

* Nitrate level(Tank) 20-40

* Ammonia Level(Tap) 0

* Nitrite Level(Tap) 0

* Nitrate level(Tap) 0

Tank and Tap Ph 8.0, GH 12, KH 5,

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops

* Water temperature? Right now in summer 75 degrees even with A/C and ceiling fan above tank (108 outside)

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 75 gal, 3 years

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 406 Fluval Canister for filtration and biomedia, and a large HOB used for extra filtration

* How often do you change the water and how much? 60-80% every week

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 2 days

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 3 Orandas and one fantail, medium sized

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Pro-Gold once or twice day, Spiralana, Blanched Zuccini, Salad Wafers, Cooked unshelled peas

* Any new fish added to the tank? No

* Any medications added to the tank? Yes, last week used Mardel Quick cure and aquarium salt after I noticed the bottom sitting and labored breathing

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Prazi last year.

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Lump behind her anal fin.

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

Yes, she has been resting on the bottom quite often for about 4 weeks. She often sits with tail upwards sometimes.

I first thought it was due to the hot weather, so turned on ceiling fan 24/7. Then thought due to slight increase in ph, not sure. Then 4 days ago seemed to be getting worse and some labored breathing (?) so treated tank with Quickcure and salt for parasites. Now I noticed large lump behind anal fin. She seems irritated when other fish come close. She weighs about 8 oz. She eats well!

Other fish look and act ok. I don't know what to treat her with. I have Prazi, Medi-gold, metro-med, quickcure, and I will be going to petstore tomorrow. She is in hospital tank now, looking at me with big eyes, like "why are you doing this to me?" Please help us.

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hello NancyJean, welcome to kokos :) i am sorry that your first post is that of a sick fish :hug i don't see anything alarming with your routine, so it would be awesome if you are able to provide pictures / video of the concerned area. this way, we may gain an idea of what this lump could be. whilst arranging that, please do a thorough check over her in case there are any more marks on her body or fins that are not supposed to be there, particularly on the side that she has been resting on.

how are her eyes? any cloudiness there? her slimecoat, is it nice and transparent or spoiling somewhat? and have you noticed any poop from her? is it food colour, does it have air bubbles or empty casing?

and lastly, i see you treated with Quick Cure and salt, is there any of that in the tank, currently?

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Thank you for getting back to me! Right now she is in a 5 gal hospital tank and did 2 water changes in the last 24 hr, but tomorrow I will get her a 10 gal bin. There are no Meds or salt in this tank. Her poo today has been green because she had peas last night. Didn't notice any bubbles, a good thing? I will check it tomorrow morning, too. She is so darn sweet, let me weigh her tonight without a fuss. As long as she sees it's me, she is ok with it. :-) I think her slime coat is ok, it looks slippery when I weighed her in a bowl. I will check for more lumps. Do her scales look ok to you? To me they look a little redish.

I hope I get the photos here this time. I apologize that the glass is not the cleanest, it's an old tank from when she was a baby.

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the description of poop sounds in good health. seeing as she ate peas last night and it looks like peas that came out, that's great :)

i have no before photos to compare to, to me they look fine and since the 'reddish' you mention appears more orange to me as well as that colour being on most of her scales, i am not seeing anything alarming with the photos you shared where it concerns scales and their colour as well as slime coat.

that lump to me, it looks like it could be an external tumor and usually with these, as horrible as they look and sound ('tumor').. they are quite harmless. but i will make a report to the Moderating team so that they can share their thoughts with us since it could be something coincidental. do you think you could take a short video of her behaviour and resting position? just so that we can see how she behaves in her current situation.

also, just in case we do need to treat with any meds, what weight did she record on the scales?

at this very moment, i would prefer that you do not treat with any meds until we get back to you. from the photos, she actually looks quite good, you are clearly doing a wonderful job with maintaining them :heart . please arrange a short video of her so that we can understand a little better for how she responds and gets around :)

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how's she doing? going from my experiences with what that looks like, i am very sure that it's an external tumor could you feel it to see if it is hard or sponge like?

here is what i went through with a fish where it concerns tumors. this was the 4th surgery for tumor removal.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/112323-leonidis-tumor-removal-31072013-4th-procedure/

how long has the mass been growing? if it isn't bothersome to the fish, i recommend that it just be left alone. some external tumors will grow to a size and stay that way but once they are hacked into, they kind of grow a little wild. but others just continue to grow and unfortunately, you don't know which pesky tumor you have without letting ample time pass.

otherwise, how is the fish behaving now? any improvements?

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also, as temperature increases, often we need to increase the aeration in the water. you can do this by adding one or two air stones. this will help supply the water with oxygen. if you can position the air stones wisely, ie,, where the fish can swim through the bubbles, that would be ideal. i think this will make a difference to the laboured breathing and bottom sitting you described.

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Thank you Helen and Heidi!

Helen, unfortunately I cannot see that link, it says I do not yet have enough posts to view it. :-( Would you be so kind as to give me a summary?

I apologize for not getting back on here sooner, we were out of town for awhile.

Unfortunately I noticed another lump that is between the anal fins, not not sure if it is was there before, and all one big lump, or a cluster? Today we took some more photos with her out of the water and noticed when we had her upside down. (I apologize if she is really a boy, I have a hard time knowing with these fancies. I should know, but I really can't tell. No egg laying yet and have not seen stars on gills or fins.)

So far just doing fresh water changes, haven't added any medications in the hospital tank. There is a big airstone in the main tank and one small one in the hospital, but I will add another one to help.

The lump(s) feel hard, not squishy. Does her bum opening look ok to you? I have not noticed any big poops since the first day, which is odd. I am feeding her about a tablespoon of peas daily plus a little regular food, so maybe it is squishy, but havent actually seen her poop. Not sure if the hospital tank filter is sucking it up, the foam filters are green when I change them so not sure if that is poop mixed in, but no hard poo on tank floor.

Her lumps seem painful. When we took her out for photos, she would thrash when we touched her lumps. I think that is why she is resting on the bottom with her bum up, to take the pressure off. My husband wants to cut the lumps off, but I am not letting him until I know more. Thank so much for your help!

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i am not sure that i would consider them painful and her (yes, i am confident that it's a she :) ) reactions seem typical to any fish which has been removed from water. they get quite stressed when removed from water and that is understandable :)

her vent seems fine to me :)

try this link:

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external tumors will grow anywhere. it's not surprising. what i did notice during the post mortem of Leonidis, the fish shown in the video i shared with you, is that they are growing on the surface of the skin. ie, the ones i encountered had not grown into the skin.

if your husband wants to try and cut them off, i would be happy to offer some skype time for coaching pre or during the procedure. i remain confident that these lumps are not painful to the fish, perhaps inconvenient and possibly uncomfortable due to where they are located, but not painful.

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Thank you for sharing your video of the surgery! Are you a vet? You did an amazing job! I am such a wimp when it comes to blood, felt dizzy just watching the video. You are very brave. I noticed that one of Leonidis tumors looked dark colored. Was it cancerous? I will ask my husband to watch and see if he feels comfortable doing a surgery, which I {think} he will if we decide to. My biggest concern, maybe unfounded, is that the tumors are so close to the anal fins, and I worry about bleeding.

It's good to know that the tumors are not painful. They must be uncomfortable like you mentioned, which would explain the "chin stands" that my Maya does. She balances on her chin on the tank bottom, almost on her face sometimes, using her front fins to support her. The clever girl has figured out her "chin stands" are easier if she uses the air bubbles to prop up her rump! She sleeps a lot this way.

http://i1374.photobucket.com/albums/ag439/nancylaut/836ff9daca862912e9fc77818e9baa0c_zps64b38390.mp4

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no, i am not a vet :) the work you see me carry out on my fish, i have had the assistance and guidance from members here at kokos :) that's what we do best, we learn from each other and teach others what we've learned :) it brings us a better goldfish experience and at the same time, betters the life of our goldfish (hopefully).

the dark coloured one on his side, that was the one where i took a biopsy from so that i can examine it under the microscope. tumors have blood vessels running through them, when you slice through a tumor, the vessels are severed and the tumor's blood supply is restricted. it then begins to die. that's what the black is. i have done this multiple times, however, it does not resolve the issue and once the vessels have repaired themselves, the tumor continues to grow.

i feel that your fish's bottom sitting is not related to the tumors. i would like you to check her belly and gills. here is a video on how to do so:

she seems very round in the belly, rounder than i usually see orandas. how long has she been keeping this position for?

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Thank you, Helen. I will check her gills in the morning and report back. I first noticed the chin standing behavior around May 20th. I first noticed the lumps about July 11th.

I was away for a few days camping this weekend, and I notice today she is struggling to stay upright, floating around the top. She can swim normally around the bottom when she wants food, but gets very tired out and floats to the top. She is currently sleeping on her side tonight with part of her side out of the water.:-( I put a breeder box in there, my guppies with swim bladder issues have learned to stay under the box to keep from floating up..

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While I was gone, it is possible that my niece overfed them but I left a spoon and directions so I don't think so. Before we left Maya had a poop that looked odd so I took a photo.She was active after that so I felt ok moving her back into the main 75 gal. But today I moved her back in the hospital today to keep an eye on her erratic swimming and her pooping (or lack off). Today I also fed her a tbsp of peas.

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She seems to be getting a little worse all the time. I think she looks bloated. I have metro-Meds and medi-gold and Epson salts on hand, should I start one of them?

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yes. i am wanting to treat this case as i would a dropsy fish. i feel that the poop looks unhealthy and her condition is definitely worsening. but i know nothing about guppies, so i would like for you to put her in a 10 gallon hospital tank or tub.

please weigh her. we will need to work out how many MetroMeds we will need to feed her daily. the epsom, we will begin with 1/2 teaspoon for every 10 gallons of water. you will need to dissolve the epsom before adding it to the hospital tank.

for the hospital tank, you don't need a filter, you will be making 100% daily water changes. but you will need an air stone and pump. if you have consistent temps currently, you won't even be needing a heater, as long as the temps are over 73/74F.

let me know when you've set her up, are you able to arrange this any time soon?

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She weighs 8 ounces. She is in a temporary 5 gal tonite by herself, but I will move her to a new 10 gal tub in the morning, with an airstone only.

How much of the Metro Meds should I feed her?

Thanks for your help. It's currently 3:34 in the morning my time, not sleeping well tonight.

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This is an example of what I meant by using the breeding box to steady herself. With plants in it, she will go under it, and she can use it to hold herself upright, instead of floating sideways at the top.

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sorry, hun.. i was without internet for about 6 hours. so i convert 8 ounces to 227 grams. going by the usual information for a fish of that weight, 85 pellets a day. if you can split that up into 3-4 meals a day or more, that would be awesome.

her young photos show her to have a naturally big belly. that's comforting to know.

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