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Finally found some eggs before my pond crew ate them :)


Kayla102968

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So another one of my matte fry has been brought inside (she's in a bucket getting acclimated to the warmer temperature inside).  She is having the same problems of bottom sitting and working really hard to stay afloat in the water. 

Will the 20 gallon long tank be big enough for the 4 fry until Spring and they can go back in the pond... or do I now need to get a 30 gallon tank for inside?   2 of the fish are still really tiny (3/4" long...if that) and the new one is in between the other 2 sizes...but still small.

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I am far from an experienced fish keeper, so others may say differently - but I have my five 2 inchers in a 29 gallon, where I plan to keep them until August.  My parameters are good with cycled media from the main tank, a partial algae wall, and a few plants. :)

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I have 14 of my fry still in the outdoor pond and today it was 56 degrees in the pond.  They were happy to eat some.  I find it hard to tell if they are too skinny.  One of the fry I brought inside because she was having trouble staying afloat, and when I brought her in she was sooooo skinny...I don't think she looked that frail in the pond.  I can see that the whiter fry are tinier...I hope they aren't really skinny too.   There sure are a lot of different sizes, shapes and colours.  Here is the video...do you think any of them look overly skinny?  Thanks for looking: 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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The three inside fry (in the 20 gallon tank) are doing well and getting bigger.  The tank has gotten a lot of algae on it.  I had rubbed some of it off and it is still floating around inside the tank.  I think pretty soon I could take the sponge off of the AC filter...those little guys are much stronger now.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Last spring I was looking for some goldfish to add to my pond...I only had 6 goldfish back then.  I was wanting to get some calico wakins from Blackwater Creek since I love their fish and they are so healthy (even after travelling clear across the country).  At the time they didn't have any package deals and so it was going to cost me the price of a wakin fish and then $80 shipping.  So I would get one single fish for over one hundred dollars...and most of that cost was shipping.  I ended up getting 3 pond fish locally and I do love them :).  Then my fish had babies and I have 18 more goldfish.  Just out of curiosity today,  I was looking on Blackwater creek's website and see they have a package deal with 3 little calico wakin goldfish for $99 including shipping.  They usually sell out fairly quickly of their package deal fish (with free shipping) and it is so tempting...but I just really don't want to set up another pond :).  I guess that is the one problem with raising up your own babies... is that you don't get to buy any new fish...bummer.

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I have been thinking about my fry and how they all look so different than how I imagine shubunkins to look.  All 18 of my fry have transparent gill covers (except for one that has one metallic and one transparent); they all have button eyes.  I also don't have any that have any blue coloration.  Is this something like the metallic coloration that takes time to see or would you see blue colors in 6 month fry? 

I finally see some metallic scales on Neapolitan who I brought inside, but she is almost all orange and white and transparent.  It seems like I somehow bred all the blue out of the shubunkin...lol.  All of my adult shubunkins have blue coloration so it is curious to me how this could have happened.  I would love to know who the mom of the babies are, since they all look so alike I'm assuming it is one fish.  I'm positive the dad is Oreo since he was the only one chasing all summer last year and has already started chasing again...even though it is only 60 degrees in the pond.  Since Oreo is a shubunkin, then the mom could not have been a shubunkin since there were no metallic babies out of 20 babies.  That leaves my brown/black comet (who comes from a shub x shub crossing), my orange common or my yellow common (or maybe even the sky blue shubunkin?).

All the babies are orange and black or orange and white, or orange, white and black...and all are nacreous I believe (unless some are matte...but I don't think so).  Shouldn't I be able to determine who the mom was with all this great data :)?

I strongly thought that the dad was Oreo and the mom was Smudge...but the babies don't seem to show that.

Here is who I'm almost positive is the dad:  http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_1056_zps358fecc1.jpg

 

Here is who I thought the mom was:  http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_1386_zps1b7d3a91.jpg

Here are the 3 other moms:

Black comet and orange common:  http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_1017_zps3331531d.jpg

 

Blue shubunkin and yellow common:  http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_1044_zps25f34a8c.jpg

 

I might like to try this breeding thing again sometime, but is it really that hit and miss with what you get?  I wouldn't know who to breed together...lol.

I really think the only male I have is Oreo (seen above). 

This shubunkin I don't know if it is male or female:  http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_9077_zps656dfd9c.jpg

 

This is one of the babies inside:  http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_2821_zpsae3638c0.jpg

Here are the babies outside:  http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_2036_zpsbfbe915b.jpg

See how they are all mostly orange and white...a few with black. 

Is there anyway to breed my fish to get more blue coloration to show up?  Just curious...I won't be trying again anytime soon I don't think (it is a lot of work and now that I know how it works I would definitely have to do culling.  I had no idea that baby fish show up with so many different issues).

Who would you breed with Oreo to get more blue coloration in the babies?  Any thoughts?

Thanks for reading along :).

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Here are what crosses should produce.  (By shub here I'm referring to those with full calico coloring including blue.) 

 

Shub. x shub (parents both with blue and black)  1/4 matts, 1/2 shub, 1/4 uncolored (wild type) metallic.  

 

Have you ever taken the babies all out of the tank?  That's the only way you can tell if you have any wild colored metallics.  They are virtually invisible in a black tank.

 

Wild type metallic X shub  1/2 wild-type metallics, 1/2 shub.  

 

Red, orange, yellow ( with or without white) metallic X shub  1/2 colored metallic, 1/2 sakura (nacreous without blue or black)

 

Fish are red orange or yellow because they lose the black pigment.  This trait is passed on to their offspring whether metallic or nacreous.   Some of the offspring have black as babies and lose it at about the same age as metallics color.

 

Some of the babies with black may develop blue.  I really don't know when this happens because almost all of my nacreous fry have a colored metallic parent and lose their black and blue.  Sakuras are pretty.

 

If you want nice calico fry, you have to isolate a pair of shubs or a shub and your uncolored metallic.  Pond mutts may be pretty, but they aren't likely to have the colors you want.

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Thanks Sharon.  I'm still not sure who the mother would have been.  I seem to have all nacreous offspring...but none have blue, at least yet. Maybe my fish heard me talking...I had no white fish and was looking for some and now 3/4 of my fry are almost all white.  It's like I have 1/2 sakura and 1/2 shubunkin babies.   I know I have no wild colored...my pond is very clear and not that large...and the fry are quite big now. 

So if I wanted fry with some blue I would want to cross Oreo (the only male I know I have for sure) with either Smokey (the wild metallic) or Cally (the speckled shubie with blue...if she is a female:) ).  What about if I crossed Oreo with the sky blue shubunkin...would I get blue and black on the shubies as well?  I don't think I want to put Smudge in with Oreo since Smudge had such a hard time last summer with eggs, plus they came from the same place so would you worry about inbreeding?

Okay...so maybe I would put Oreo with Smokey and Stormy (sky blue shubie) and Cally (speckled shubie). 

 

What does a sakura shubunkin look like?  Do they look like Neapolitan...fry pictured above in tank?  She used to have black in her tail and now she has lost that (maybe because she is inside now).  She has gotten a tiny line of dark black on her face since moving inside, but maybe she will lose that.

 

One more thing.  Can you have an American shubunkin with a 'common' tail length?  For example, if a shubunkin was crossed with a metallic common goldfish, would any of the babies have the short tail length?

Edited by Kayla102968
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Here's a sakura fantail.

 

IMG_1016.jpg

 

If it has a short tail, it's a London shubunkin.   :)  You can get both long and short tails when crossing a long tailed fish with a short tailed fish.

 

 

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Oh...she is so pretty.  She is a dark orange...almost like a red and has metallic scales but mostly matte...yes?  All three of those fish would be considered shubunkins if they were single tails?  If so, what kind of a shubunkin would the yellow, pink and white one be if it was a singletail?  That is the color I think a lot of my babies are.  The ones that are orange are very pale orange...even the ones that are orange and black have really pale orange.  It's like the colors have all been lightened...except for the black coloration...it is dark.  It just seems strange to me that I have a lot of white colored fish when I have absolutely no white adult fish and not even any with some white.  They are all either solid colors or shubunkins with blue.  The babies look like none of the adults...it's so weird.  You would think out of 20 babies, one would look a little bit like one of the parents :).  Maybe they will get darker...most of their life so far has been with no sunshine so maybe that is why they are so pale :)

 

Thanks for showing me her...I love her color.

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Here is an updated video on the fry in the pond.  There is 14 outside in the 300 gallon pond.  I'm feeding all the outdoor goldfish Kenzen food this winter and haven't had any problems feeding them in temperatures down to 47 degrees (I only feed a small amount at that temp however). 

Two of the outside babies have body differences (mutations I guess).  One is the little orange, black and white small fry that has a short plump body and long tail base.  I'm hoping her strange body shape won't cause balance problems in her future.  The other one is white and grey/black and just looks really lumpy and skinny looking...she has always looked that way and so I think she will be okay she'll just look weird shaped.

There is a lot of poop on the bottom of the pond since it has been warm here and there is a lot of algae in the pond that they are constantly nibbling on.  I clean the bottom at least every second day...and sometimes every day...but you'd never know it to look at it.

Here is the video of them:

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  • 2 weeks later...
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The 4 fry inside are constantly changing colour.  They are gaining in black and blue coloration and getting a metallic sheen to them.  The first two videos are of Neapolitan and the last video is of the 3 smaller fry.  Mouse is no longer pure white she has a lot of black splotches...she is the one with the deeper body (in the tank with the three fry).

Above video of Neapolitan: 

Side video of Neapolitan: 

The three smaller fry: 

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Thanks Susanne :).  Neapolitan has gotten so friendly.  If you put your fingers in the tank he lifts his head out of the water and nibbles on your fingers.  Of course it is food motivated...but it is still so cute :)

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All 18 fry are back together in the pond again. Neapolitan (the largest fry now) finally decided to join the others instead of hiding and bottom sitting, and thinks this pond life isn't all that bad :). Even the 3 previously tiniest fry are now joined with their pond buddies.

I would love to put the Laguna maxflo pump (sucker of solids) into this pond. Do you think it is safe now...are all the fry big enough to not get sucked in? The smallest fry is now probably 3/4" long total. All the rest are at least 1.25" long.

Here is the video:

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They should be fine.  If you are worried, get a tote that holds the pump, and use it to make a pump box along the lines of this, only bigger, of course.   Since the pump is supposed to lay flat, you'll have to make the hole for the hose on the side, rather than the top. Put lots of holes in the top, and the water can go into the pump, but not little fishies.

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  • 5 weeks later...
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Everyone has gained black coloration this month.  I was hoping to get a white goldfish out of this bunch of 18 (since I don't have a white goldfish) and all of my previously white goldfish have and are continuing to gain black.  I've also noticed that there are some fry tails that are common tails instead of comet.  Does this necessarily mean that one of the parents had to be a common or can two shubunkin comets produce a few babies that have short common tails?  Here is a video:

 

Edited by Kayla102968
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