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Kayla102968

Finally found some eggs before my pond crew ate them :)

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I have a green jelly bean...so exciting!...thank you Koko :).

I have around a dozen babies hatched so far and I think the rest will hatch tomorrow. I'm guessing I'll have about 20-30 babies since the ones in the hyacinth roots are really hard to see.

I checked the eggs that were left on the plants this afternoon in the pond and they were all gone :(.

I've always wanted my goldfish to have babies and now that it's happened it couldn't be at a worse time. We are leaving Saturday morning for our holiday (we haven't been away for 4 years or so) and won't be back until late Tuesday. Then we are back for a week and then I'm going to Canada with the boys to see my parents for 5 days. My husband will be home so hopefully I can train him how to look after the fish before I go.

What is the best thing to do with the 2 and 3 day old babies to give them the best chance for surviving the 3.5 to 4 days we'll be gone? I'm thinking of putting them in the pond in a breeder net, breeder box or the filter Jamie suggested. I've ordered the filter and a breeder net (on a frame) and they should be here on Friday before we leave. I could also purchase a Breeder box if that would be safer for the babies in the pond (and the adult fish) when we're gone. I will put some duckweed in the top of their container in the pond. How many babies can I keep in one breeder net or box or filter? If I have 30 babies should I put them in two (or more) different containers? Also, since I just moved the pond fish to a new pond, I have no algae built up for them or the babies when I'm gone. I'm going to purchase some duckweed locally for the adults and the babies.

By the time I go to Canada on July 30th, will the babies still be able to stay in a container in the pond while I'm gone for 5 days? My husband could feed them some crushed pellets or brine shrimp while I'm gone and have him scoop out what they don't eat.

I hope this works. I've waited so long for my fishies to have fry and now that they have them, it is at the worst time. I doubt I will see them spawn again since it was so rare for me to catch it this time.

Any thoughts/suggestions are welcomed.

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The 12" filter/nursery would be big enough for all 30 of the babies for quite some time... especially when technically given the pond's full volume of water. I would think that if you covered the top of the nursery with duckweed, it would have enough microorganisms on its root system to feed the babies, for a few days. Maybe get a few more big water lettuce plants, from an established pond, to toss in, too? There will also be stuff growing and hatching in the water for them, that you can't see. :D

Just keep i mind that not all of the babies are going to make it. Some get deformities, as they grow, and some just die, for what seems like no reason. Of the 30 or so fry that I hatched, I had 3 make it. :(

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Jamie's right.

Just make sure that the container is secured to the side of the pond, you've got your plants for them to feed from, and you will be fine. :)

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The 12" filter/nursery would be big enough for all 30 of the babies for quite some time... especially when technically given the pond's full volume of water. I would think that if you covered the top of the nursery with duckweed, it would have enough microorganisms on its root system to feed the babies, for a few days. Maybe get a few more big water lettuce plants, from an established pond, to toss in, too? There will also be stuff growing and hatching in the water for them, that you can't see. :D

Just keep i mind that not all of the babies are going to make it. Some get deformities, as they grow, and some just die, for what seems like no reason. Of the 30 or so fry that I hatched, I had 3 make it. :(

Okay...thanks Jamie. I don't know what I would do with over 30 babies if they all survived. I know most people prazi at 1 week or so but mine will be in the pond and the adults were just Prazi'd in May when I added my new fish. Plus Prazi'ing 700 gallons of water would be quite expensive. Any suggestions on what I could do?

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Jamie's right.

Just make sure that the container is secured to the side of the pond, you've got your plants for them to feed from, and you will be fine. :)

Sounds good. Thanks Chelsea :)

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They make pond prazi. ;) Just check around online.

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Congrats! :nana

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I wouldn't prazi the pond. Your fry should be fine without it. I've never prazied baby fry.

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I'm trying to decide what to do with all the fry before I leave on Saturday morning. I put the filter into some water and there doesn't appear to be too much movement of water in and out of the container once it is filled. I could be wrong though :). I'm a little worried if I stick 30 some fry in there that they will raise the ammonia levels due to not much movement of water out the bottom. Right now the container they were in, raised ammonia to between 0.25 and 0.5 in 1.5 days. The other thing I'm concerned about is the water in the small container getting too hot or too cold at night since again it is such a small container (in the pond) and the movement of water in and out is undetectable. Temperatures are going to be in the 80's during the day and much cooler in the night.

I thought maybe I could divide the fry in three groups and put some in the container in the pond, some in a 20 gallon long tank in the house (filled to 4" deep...is that too deep right now for them?) and put some of them directly in the pond and hope for the best (that they'll hide in the roots of plants). Is there any hope that ten 3 day old fry could survive in a 20 gallon long (4 inches full) for 3.5 days in the house without a water change...but with lots of duckweed & plants on the top? I'm concerned that if some just die off or even from just having 10 babies in there, the ammonia will get too high. The temperature in the house would remain fairly even.

What to do?

At what day do they start needing food? How will I know? Is it when they stop hanging longitudinally on the walls of the tank?

Edited by Kayla102968

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Here is the quick set-up of the filter in the pond to show what we did. You can see the 'sharks' swarming around :).

Think this should work? It is about 8-8.5 inch diameter circle in size and about 2.5" deep. I'll see what happens to it tonight and then put the babies in tomorrow with the plants if all goes well. Thanks so much for the idea Jamie. My husband thinks it's a genius idea :).

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_9946_zps681548d3.jpg

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_9944_zpsbbac9a7f.jpg

- the 'sharks' checking things out...I think they believe that is a plate for them to eat from.

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_9942_zps97632b80.jpg

- attached with binder clip to the pond edge :) - we use binder clips like most use duct tape.

Edited by Kayla102968

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congratulations! another fish mumma! :wub:

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Looks good! Ok, here's what I would do:

#1) put the filter nursery so that it close to the side of the pond by where the filter return flow is coming back. Not so that the filter return is going INTO the nursery, but so that is close to where the water is being mixed the most. You won't see water exchange, and you don't really want a current in there, but with the bottom being permeable, and there being movement in the pond's water, it will be circulating in the filter a bit, too.

#2) pack that sucker with as many floating plants as you can get to fit in there. It will do 3 things, for you. #1) provide shade, and help regulate the temp of the water in the nursery. #2) give your fry food and places to hide, in there. #3) the plants will filter the water, and you won't have to worry about parameter spikes and etc.

#3) relax- the little guys are going to be just fine. :)

You're welcome! Always glad to help out.

Also, your pond is beautiful! :D

Edited by JamieMonster

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Thank you Helen and Jamie :).

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I believe I have 40 something fry now...I didn't think I saved that many eggs...but it appears I did. It is neat now because I can actually see tiny fry that are white, some that are clear, and some that are almost black.

I know the male that has been chasing is Oreo (shubunkin). The females that were the chunkiest, being chased a lot, and now look slightly slimmer are Smudge (shubunkin) and Smokey (brown comet).

Does anyone know what tiny shubunkins would look like? Would they be the darkest ones, the white ones, or the clear ones? I'm guessing the darker ones will probably be metallic colored goldfish that start that green/brown colour?

I took a video of some fry and they are sure hard to see, but in the photo ( in the corner of my plastic container) you can see a light colored fry with darker ones on her left and right side:

photo:

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_9950_zps38b9edfd.jpg

Here is a video:

Edited by Kayla102968

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Baby shubies are typically light colored. The difference will become more obvious as they get older.

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We got back from vacation and I moved the babies inside into my 20 gallon long tank to get a good look at them. They are 6 days old and look way too skinny. I hope I can fatten them up a little now that I have them inside. Here are some photos of them. They are looking different than each other already. Some have long dark lines through them...I wonder if that is coloring or inside body parts.

Here are some pics:

I love this one :) : http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_0283_zpsb1914ff3.jpg

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_0306_zps76597b67.jpg

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_0296_zps8f98ef29.jpg

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_0281_zps9264526f.jpg

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_0274_zps0c8b2cdc.jpg

This little cutie looks so skinny to me...all eyes...I hope she gets bigger soon:

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_0265_zps92ba6eaf.jpg

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_0264_zps727c284f.jpg

Here is their tank:

http://i1088.photobucket.com/albums/i322/Kayla102968/IMG_0248_zps263022dd.jpg

Thanks for looking :)

Edited by Kayla102968

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They look like they're coming along nicely, really. They do look tiny and skinny for awhile. I have some at two weeks with barely any belly.

Outside they will have a constant food source via microorganisms in the pond. Indoors, you're going to have to constantly feed them.

The long lines are their spines. Goldie babies are often clear for awhile, but some color up earlier than others.

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They look fine to me. I have not fed indoor fry that young. Indoors or outdoors, if there are plants in the tank and you aren't cleaning tank surfaces, they will eat just fine for the first two weeks. Just watch them nibbling on the sides of the tank. You can't see what they are eating, but with their tiny mouths, algae and other microbial life are just right. After two weeks, if they are not in a pond, I feed them spirulina powder, and later fine dust from the big fish food.

Now if you are raising them "tissue culture style," with scrubbed containers, lots of water and water changes, sponge filter and all, you will have to feed them. Fed heavily, they will grow fast, mature early, and die young -- at least younger than their leaner brothers.

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They look fine to me. I have not fed indoor fry that young. Indoors or outdoors, if there are plants in the tank and you aren't cleaning tank surfaces, they will eat just fine for the first two weeks. Just watch them nibbling on the sides of the tank. You can't see what they are eating, but with their tiny mouths, algae and other microbial life are just right. After two weeks, if they are not in a pond, I feed them spirulina powder, and later fine dust from the big fish food.

Now if you are raising them "tissue culture style," with scrubbed containers, lots of water and water changes, sponge filter and all, you will have to feed them. Fed heavily, they will grow fast, mature early, and die young -- at least younger than their leaner brothers.

I wanted to bring the fry inside so that I can 'cull' some of them by putting them back in the pond. It was too hard to see them at all in the 3 small breeder nets with duckweed and other plants on the top. There is no way I can keep 40 fish :( even for a while. I have the two 300 gallon ponds but no filters for them and unless they were full of water, I would worry about big temperature fluctuations between night and day.

The breeder nets are so small. The night before we left on vacation I tried the 'filter' thingy and with the 100 micron holes there was just not enough water movement through it. Even when I put it by the outtake of the filter and in the shade, it still got much hotter than the rest of the pond. We are/were having a heat wave so I just didn't trust that the water wouldn't overheat while we were gone. I didn't have time to order a larger hole size. The breeder nets have bigger holes and they did not heat up, so we put the fry in 3 of them while we were gone. I'm going to grow some duckweed in the 100 micron filter :).

I would love to put the babies back outside but can't figure out a safe way to do it where they will have more room to swim than a breeder net.

Right now I have them inside in a 20 gallon long. I have no filter or airstone. My extra air pump is not adjustable and the current is too strong with the airstone. I have been testing the water and doing small water changes with air line tubing just to get the extra food out of the bottom of the tank. I'm not feeding very much...one drop of instant bbs...but they really do eat so little right now and they don't come swimming over to the food. A few babies nibble at it off the bottom, then I remove it with the airline tubing. I've only had them in about 4 or 5 inches of water for a day inside, and so far ammonia is 0. I refill the water in the tank with water from the adult pond.

At what age can I fill the 20 gallon long tank? Is it safe for them to be in deeper water now? I'm going to be going with the boys on vacation for 5 days at the end of the month and want to make sure my husband can look after them quite easily. I figure with more water there will be less need for water changes due to ammonia.

Are they okay without an airstone? (how important is this?)

At what age could they be moved back into the pond without being eaten?

Is there a larger breeder net (the ones I have are 4x5x5 inches) that they could be separated from the adult goldfish but still have room to move in the pond a bit?.

I really didn't think so many of the babies would hatch and survive and now I'm concerned about where I'm going to keep them until I can give them away. I haven't counted how many I have since they hide in the roots of the plants as well, but there is probably at least 30. I wouldn't mind keeping 2 or 3, but there is still a lot of extra babies.

Edited by Kayla102968

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I'd put them in a 300 gallon with 12" of water and lots of duckweed on top and some plants in pots. You don't need filtration and there is no way they would be bothered by diurnal temperature changes. I would make a cover for the tank to keep critters out. Unless the heat wave has daily temperature over 100 degrees and they are in the sun, they will be fine. If you want to add more water before you leave on the trip, that's fine.

I've raised all babies, except for the first batch, outdoors, in the shade, in shallow water, without filtration or aeration. I prefer to keep the water shallow for gas exchange, but you can go deeper if you wish. They only need very shallow water until they fill their swim bladders with air, which they have done by now.

I don't use an airstone for anything. I have some pumps, but I can't stand the noise.

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Thanks Sharon. How would I do water changes...once a week 10%? And if so, how do I do it without releasing any fry? Would it start to cycle and produce nitrites?

Can you recommend some plants in pots that would be good without much sun? I had a lily in soil with rocks on top of it and it just would not do well. It needed a lot more sun to come back each year.

It's going to be hard to see the tiny fry in the 300 gallon tank. Do I have to worry about seeing them in order to remove fry with bad spines etc?

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You really don't have to worry about culling defective fry. They will almost always die.

You can siphon water from the bottom for water changes. If you siphon into a tub, you can recover any fry that are siphoned out. Alternatively, get a little pump from Harbor freight and pump the water out. The sponge in the pump intake will prevent any fry from being sucked up by the pump.

These babies won't produce enough ammonia to be a problem to them. The duckweed is a very effective biofilter anyway.

It's hard to recommend plants because they are so climate dependent. Look for marginals that like shade. You don't really need potted plants if you have floaters. Nymphoides is easier to grow than water lilies and tolerates low light.

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Oh no! I'm sorry the 100 micron mesh was too small for the nursery! I didn't have time to test these things, before sharing the plans... since I have yet to need it, myself. My fish love eggs for breakfast, and I no longer have floating hornwort in the tank- I NEVER see any eggs. It sounds like you have everything worked out though. :D

Your fry look great! With the exception for the 1 with the googly eyes, they didn't look at all skinny or malnourished, to me. I'm no expert, or anything, but they looked healthy and right on track, from my experience.

Looking forward to seeing pics of the HUGE nursery pond and as they grow. :hug

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Jamie - no problem...if I would have had the time I would have ordered the 200 micron and seen how that one worked :).

I'm hoping at least a few of my fry survive...any others I'll have to find homes for.

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