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Possible Euthanasia - help with decision?


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So Pickle is not doing too well. Yesterday morning I noticed a small red spot, a bit like a hematoma, on his belly. I immediately assumed it was the result of his SBD and floating excessively on his back, so I applied a thin layer of vaseline and removed him from the main tank, into a small bowl for feeding and observation. I put him back in the tank when I left for work (right now it's about 95F up here and I have no AC...will have some next week but because of this I absolutely can't have a QT set up as it would get much too hot within hours) and when I got home the spot had at least quadrupled in size. I've attached a video so you guys can see it, and see how he swims....

I freaked out, and moved him to the bowl, and he seemed a bit better. He is weaker, but still eating and still trying to right himself.

Keep in mind, I have tried EVERYTHING to help this SBD, which Pickle has had ever since I first got him. I tried vegan diet, peas, fasting, lower water level, lower temperature, medication, etc. None of this has made any difference, but I never saw any sores until this one.

The sore has remained the same size today - nothing has gotten better, but nothing has gotten worse.

At this point...I just don't know what to do. This came on so fast, and I don't want him to be in pain. However, I also don't want to cut his life short if he could get better. I just want to know...if you were me, what would YOU do? I know this is a personal decision, but I need some help making it. I've been on the edge with him a few times, and none of them have been this bad. Maybe it's because I've seen him get better that I'm hesitating.

Please help :(

Water Testing:

Temp: 80F

pH: 8.2

Ammonia: 0ppm

Nitrite: 0ppm

Nitrate: 10ppm

Edited by kiwikacey
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I do - I have been feeding him metro-meds since last night, separately, in his little bowl. I should add that none of the other fish are showing any signs of any redness or swelling.

Pickle has righted himself and is going after the metro-meds! He seems to have a normal appetite

EDIT: by his separate bowl, I mean the bowl I've been putting him in for "rest therapy" whenever I am home

Edited by kiwikacey
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I'm so sorry to hear this. My oldest fish died last week of a bacterial infection after showing the same symptom. However in my case I did not have Metro Meds on hand - I had to order them and they did not arrive until 2 days ago, which of course by then was too late. [emoji17]

When you touch his belly, does it feel soft and squishy? Also, when was the last time you treated for flukes? Bacteria can enter through holes left by flukes, which I believe may have happened in my case. Does he have any fraying in his fins?

I really hope he gets better soon.

Edited by *Amanda*
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I'm so sorry to hear this. My oldest fish died last week of a bacterial infection after showing the same symptom. However in my case I did not have Metro Meds on hand - I had to order them and they did not arrive until 2 days ago, which of course by then was too late. [emoji17]

When you touch his belly, does it feel soft and squishy? Also, when was the last time you treated for flukes? Bacteria can enter through holes left by flukes, which I believe may have happened in my case. Does he have any fraying in his fins?

I really hope he gets better soon.

Thank you! I'm very sorry to hear about your fish...

His belly does feel soft and squishy; he does not have any fraying at the end of his fins, nor do any of the other fish. I last treated for flukes probably sometime at the end of last year...maybe December/January? I have a big bottle of prazipro on hand, and could treat the tank if need be. If it is bacterial, I don't want anyone else to get sick!

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Metro Meds isn't an overnight fix, it takes time to work. Since you already started it, it is not recommended to stop feeding them. I would go the 14 days and then we can reassess the situation. Is his belly always out of the water? It's quite red :( try putting some Vaseline on it. :hug

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Do you know what he weighs so you know how many pellets of MMs to feed him daily?

It's possible it didn't get worse from yesterday to today because you started the MMs yesterday. It will take a while for that much blood to be resorbed. Hang in there. I think as long as he's eating he's got a fighting chance. :hug

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I'm so sorry to hear this. My oldest fish died last week of a bacterial infection after showing the same symptom. However in my case I did not have Metro Meds on hand - I had to order them and they did not arrive until 2 days ago, which of course by then was too late. [emoji17]

When you touch his belly, does it feel soft and squishy? Also, when was the last time you treated for flukes? Bacteria can enter through holes left by flukes, which I believe may have happened in my case. Does he have any fraying in his fins?

I really hope he gets better soon.

Thank you! I'm very sorry to hear about your fish...

His belly does feel soft and squishy; he does not have any fraying at the end of his fins, nor do any of the other fish. I last treated for flukes probably sometime at the end of last year...maybe December/January? I have a big bottle of prazipro on hand, and could treat the tank if need be. If it is bacterial, I don't want anyone else to get sick!

Did you ever do the "heavy" Prazi treatment outlined in the Treatments section of this forum? Or have you always just followed the instructions on the bottle? Reason I ask is because I recently learned that the bottle instructions are generally not enough to set back a heavy fluke infestation, and that the bottle instructions are OK only for maintenance doses. I had never done the "heavy" treatment before then, so my fish probably had a really bad case of flukes, which could have led to the bacterial infection.

I am glad to hear he is eating - that's always a good sign. Hopefully the antibiotics will heal him soon.

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Metro Meds isn't an overnight fix, it takes time to work. Since you already started it, it is not recommended to stop feeding them. I would go the 14 days and then we can reassess the situation. Is his belly always out of the water? It's quite red :( try putting some Vaseline on it. :hug

Do you know what he weighs so you know how many pellets of MMs to feed him daily?

It's possible it didn't get worse from yesterday to today because you started the MMs yesterday. It will take a while for that much blood to be resorbed. Hang in there. I think as long as he's eating he's got a fighting chance. :hug

Thanks, everyone! It's good to hear that you all don't think he's a goner! I was freaking out...but he was still eating and active, so I wasn't sure what to do. I will keep feeding the MMs exclusively, though he has to go back into the main tank when he's not eating/when I'm out of the house. I will get a weight on him tonight and post when I do. As far as other food, I had been feeding NLS Thera A and he was doing OK on that, much better than hikari at least.

If he takes a sudden turn for the worse, I will keep the clove oil on hand.

Should I treat the tank for flukes when he is done with his 14 days (assuming he gets better)?

& his belly is out of the water most of the time, I have been putting a thin coat of vaseline on him when I get the chance :) Hopefully he can pull through again!

I'm so sorry to hear this. My oldest fish died last week of a bacterial infection after showing the same symptom. However in my case I did not have Metro Meds on hand - I had to order them and they did not arrive until 2 days ago, which of course by then was too late. [emoji17]

When you touch his belly, does it feel soft and squishy? Also, when was the last time you treated for flukes? Bacteria can enter through holes left by flukes, which I believe may have happened in my case. Does he have any fraying in his fins?

I really hope he gets better soon.

Thank you! I'm very sorry to hear about your fish...

His belly does feel soft and squishy; he does not have any fraying at the end of his fins, nor do any of the other fish. I last treated for flukes probably sometime at the end of last year...maybe December/January? I have a big bottle of prazipro on hand, and could treat the tank if need be. If it is bacterial, I don't want anyone else to get sick!

Did you ever do the "heavy" Prazi treatment outlined in the Treatments section of this forum? Or have you always just followed the instructions on the bottle? Reason I ask is because I recently learned that the bottle instructions are generally not enough to set back a heavy fluke infestation, and that the bottle instructions are OK only for maintenance doses. I had never done the "heavy" treatment before then, so my fish probably had a really bad case of flukes, which could have led to the bacterial infection.

I am glad to hear he is eating - that's always a good sign. Hopefully the antibiotics will heal him soon.

Hmmm I have never done the heavy treatment, no. That is probably a very good idea. When should I start? I don't want to overload him while he's fighting this.

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Metro Meds isn't an overnight fix, it takes time to work. Since you already started it, it is not recommended to stop feeding them. I would go the 14 days and then we can reassess the situation. Is his belly always out of the water? It's quite red :( try putting some Vaseline on it. :hug

Do you know what he weighs so you know how many pellets of MMs to feed him daily?

It's possible it didn't get worse from yesterday to today because you started the MMs yesterday. It will take a while for that much blood to be resorbed. Hang in there. I think as long as he's eating he's got a fighting chance. :hug

Thanks, everyone! It's good to hear that you all don't think he's a goner! I was freaking out...but he was still eating and active, so I wasn't sure what to do. I will keep feeding the MMs exclusively, though he has to go back into the main tank when he's not eating/when I'm out of the house. I will get a weight on him tonight and post when I do. As far as other food, I had been feeding NLS Thera A and he was doing OK on that, much better than hikari at least.

If he takes a sudden turn for the worse, I will keep the clove oil on hand.

Should I treat the tank for flukes when he is done with his 14 days (assuming he gets better)?

& his belly is out of the water most of the time, I have been putting a thin coat of vaseline on him when I get the chance :) Hopefully he can pull through again!

I'm so sorry to hear this. My oldest fish died last week of a bacterial infection after showing the same symptom. However in my case I did not have Metro Meds on hand - I had to order them and they did not arrive until 2 days ago, which of course by then was too late. [emoji17]

When you touch his belly, does it feel soft and squishy? Also, when was the last time you treated for flukes? Bacteria can enter through holes left by flukes, which I believe may have happened in my case. Does he have any fraying in his fins?

I really hope he gets better soon.

Thank you! I'm very sorry to hear about your fish...

His belly does feel soft and squishy; he does not have any fraying at the end of his fins, nor do any of the other fish. I last treated for flukes probably sometime at the end of last year...maybe December/January? I have a big bottle of prazipro on hand, and could treat the tank if need be. If it is bacterial, I don't want anyone else to get sick!

Did you ever do the "heavy" Prazi treatment outlined in the Treatments section of this forum? Or have you always just followed the instructions on the bottle? Reason I ask is because I recently learned that the bottle instructions are generally not enough to set back a heavy fluke infestation, and that the bottle instructions are OK only for maintenance doses. I had never done the "heavy" treatment before then, so my fish probably had a really bad case of flukes, which could have led to the bacterial infection.

I am glad to hear he is eating - that's always a good sign. Hopefully the antibiotics will heal him soon.

Hmmm I have never done the heavy treatment, no. That is probably a very good idea. When should I start? I don't want to overload him while he's fighting this.

I would rather have Lisa or someone else answer the question of how soon you should begin Prazi treatment after finishing the course of Metro Meds. Prazi is a gentle medication, but I would want someone to confirm that the fish is stable enough before beginning, and not too weak after the MMs. I have the Fancy Goldfish book and it does say it's important to treat for flukes after treatment of the infection (along with a standard water quality check to address the root causes of many bacterial infections), but I don't remember it saying how soon.

I also support the use of probiotics to recolonize the gut after antibiotic treatment. This helps restore the fish's good bacteria and normal digestive functions. I was about to order Jump Start along with the MMs when Nimrod was sick, which is a probiotic meant to be given after MMs. However, several people here said it can exacerbate swim bladder problems, so it would be better to buy a probiotic powder or capsule and mix it in with gel food.

And I'm with you on the Hikari - my fish became floaty on it, too. I had thought dry food was out of the question until I ordered the NLS Thera-A. Those pellets are small enough that they don't cause any problems for my fish. I feed that, Soilent Green and now Pro Gold pellets, which are just slightly bigger than the NLS.

Edited by *Amanda*
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I would say wait a few days and see how he does on MM if he shows improvement and marked increase in strength then you can start the prazipro. It is a very gentle med and if he continues to go on the mend I would start it asap. I mean no one really knows your fish better than you, so I think it's important for you to assess his strength and use your best judgement. :)

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Thanks, everyone! I checked on Pickle this morning and he is doing MUCH better :) The bloody area has darkened, which I'm assuming means it has started to clot and whatever was bleeding has begun to heal. Additionally, he is swimming right side up! Hungry and peppy as usual. I weighed him, and he is 40 grams on the dot.

Amanda, thank you for the probiotic and food recommendations. I have Jump Start on hand, but I also have probiotic tablets that I take myself and could open and combine with gel food, if that's what you mean. I will look into the pro gold as an option; I love the NLS! My fish do, too - the only thing I don't love is the smell :teehee My fish really liked soilent green and I'll have to get some more.

Feeling better about him this morning - he always seems to pull through, and I'm glad I gave him another chance!

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Glad to hear he's improving. Please feed him 16 pellets per day. It's best if you can break that up into 3-4 meals. :)

If he continues to look good, we may want to get a round or two of prazi done while he is still on the MMs as then you won't need to use salt. Lets give it another day or so before deciding. :D

Also could you please post a couple pics and/or short video of him when you get a chance?

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Thanks, everyone! I checked on Pickle this morning and he is doing MUCH better :) The bloody area has darkened, which I'm assuming means it has started to clot and whatever was bleeding has begun to heal. Additionally, he is swimming right side up! Hungry and peppy as usual. I weighed him, and he is 40 grams on the dot.

Amanda, thank you for the probiotic and food recommendations. I have Jump Start on hand, but I also have probiotic tablets that I take myself and could open and combine with gel food, if that's what you mean. I will look into the pro gold as an option; I love the NLS! My fish do, too - the only thing I don't love is the smell :teehee My fish really liked soilent green and I'll have to get some more.

Feeling better about him this morning - he always seems to pull through, and I'm glad I gave him another chance!

Haha I know what you mean about the NLS smell. When I first opened it I thought "shrimp ramen noodles"!

I'm so glad to hear your fish is on the mend. [emoji1]

Edited by *Amanda*
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Ooh, he is feisty! That is a very good sign.

If you do the probiotic/gel food (which is what I do), you'll want to make sure to NOT add the probiotic when the gel food is too hot. Let it cool a bit, and just before it gels up that is when you add the probiotic. From what I read, some strains of probiotics can handle temps of 122F for just a little while. If your gel food starts to harden before you add the probiotic, add it anyways and then stir it and let it gel up again. It may not be so pretty, but most likely the probiotics will not be rendered useless.

Healing vibes to your fishie!

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Thanks everyone! I went away for a day and came back, and the sore is completely gone :) pickle is looking SO much better!! Definitely still giving the MMs....but wow, what a turn around! I'll post another pic when I can. Thanks for ALL your help and good vibes!

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Hi everyone! Just wanted to post a little update. Pickle is doing much better, but today I noticed the sore coming back a little bit. I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the heat lately...I am really looking forward to getting my AC in. I don't think the heat is causing it, but is there a possibility that it could be allowing any bacteria there to propagate faster? The sore is not as bad as it was, but it definitely looks like it's trying to be.

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Is he still eating his MMs well? Could you post a pic please?

He is still hungry as ever, and loving his MMs. Here is a pic from this morning:

ibnzPp1e78qpbj.JPG

Doing a major WC today. Should I start Prazipro treatment?

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