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Oranda has developed torn fins


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  • Regular Member

Hi all! Here's the info:

  • Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) 80
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0.5
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) 20
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.2
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.2
  • Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
  • * Water temperature? 77º F
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 55 gallons, 10 months
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqua-tech 30-60
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? Recently it's been about once every 2 weeks, 66%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today, 66%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 oranges (Leo and Darla, both appear to be male), about 3.5"-4" each
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Seachem Prime as dechlorinator
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari Lionhead pellets, 1/4 tsp twice a day. Occasionally I give them a frozen Emerald Entree cube, peas, or blanched broccoli.
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? No
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. None
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Frayed tail and fins on Leo, with black edges and red veins. Darla seems to be healthy. Both have white spots on their wens, which I believe are simply wen growth
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Leo has been bottom sitting for months without any other signs of distress. I don't know why this is, he is able to swim when he chooses to. Darla can be a bully, so he might just be trying to lay low, or it could be that his wen is so overgrown that swimming is too difficult.

Here's the background:

I've had Leo a little over 2 years, Darla a little less than 1 year. Leo began bottom sitting much more after I added Darla to the tank, but both have had no apparent health problems in several months since then. I don't have a satisfactory answer to why he bottom sits nearly all of the time, but until now his health hadn't deteriorated so I wasn't too concerned about it.

I've been busy for various reasons and have fallen behind on regular water changes. The tank had gotten very dirty. I did a water change a week ago, and then two days later noticed Leo's fraying tail. Today I noticed the black edges where his tail is torn. I did another water change today. The info above was measured before today's water change - I did not test last week when I noticed the problem. but I'm assuming the nitrates were higher then.

I have moved Leo to a 20 gallon tank that I added 20 Tbsp API aquarium salt to earlier today. He is now sitting on the bottom of that tank much like he has been doing in the 55 gallon tank for several months. Is this an appropriate first step to take? Is there anything else I should be doing?

I'd be happy to post a picture and video I have, but when I click on the "image" button it asks me for a URL for the media I want to post. Do I have to post the files somewhere else on the web before they can be posted here, or is there another way?

Thanks for your help!

Jesse

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  • Regular Member

Jesse, you can post video and photos using Photobucket. You can up load them there and they will give you a link you can use for posting on this site. It sounds like maybe the water quality could be the issue for the torn fins. I think they usually turn black like that from ammonia burns. The torn fins could also be caused by flukes. You may also want to do another water change to get those nitrates down. A moderator should be reading this soon and will probably have more questions and insights than I. Good luck!

Edited by HomerJay
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  • Regular Member

Thanks for the info.  I'm still not getting the media to post using the image button (it's telling me the extension isn't allowed  on this community), but here are the links to the image and the video:

 

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c233/jmbraxton/photo1_zps565c8207.jpg

photo1_zps565c8207.jpg

 

http://s28.photobucket.com/user/jmbraxton/media/IMG_0223_zps8dd3892d.mp4.html

 

 

Sorry I'm not able to get them to show up directly in the post!

Edited by dnalex
embed pic and video
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  • Regular Member

:hi

Are you sure that Leo is a male and not a female? I am wondering if Darla is chasing "her" and nipping her fins as part of normal breeding behavior.

The bottom sitting and torn fins also could be a sign of Flukes and I would recommend a Prazi protocol for both tanks. Most of us do this about twice a year. As for the black edges...this could simply be a sign of healing but may also be a result of water quality problems such as ammonia. I would try to up your water changes to once a week rather than once every two weeks. I also noticed the Nitrate is still high even after the last water change.

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  • Regular Member

Your picture and video work just fine, Jesse. He's a great-looking fish.

You do mean one teaspoon salt per gallon, don't you?

Yes, I am also wondering about this? One Teaspoon per gallon would have you at 0.1% where one Tablespoon per gallon would have you at 0.3%. Both are acceptable treatments, but we usually start at 0.1%.

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Here are two options for Prazi Protocols:

PRAZIQUANTEL PROTOCOLS

A. FIVE DAY ROUNDS
Day 1: Big WC (>50%), add Prazi. Make sure salt is at the appropriate concentration. This is the beginning of Round 1.
Day 5: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 1.
Day 6: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 2.
Day 10: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 2.
Day 11: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 3.
Day 15: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 3.
Day 16: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 4.
Day 20: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 4.
Day 21: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 5.
Day 25: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 5.
Day 26: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 6.
Day 30: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 6.

This is enough for 6 rounds, should you need to go out that far.
Some reminders: Prazipro should only have salt to 0.1% if you are using regular dose. If double dosing Prazipro, you can raise salt to 0.3%. If you are using Prazi powder or tablets, then salt is at 0.3%.

A. SEVEN DAY ROUNDS
Day 1: Big WC (>50%), add Prazi. Make sure salt is at the appropriate concentration. This is the beginning of Round 1.
Day 2: Add another dose of Prazi. We routinely double dose with Prazi for the first round in this protocol.
Day 5: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 1.
Day 8: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 2.
Day 12: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 2.
Day 15: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 3.
Day 19: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 3.
Day 22: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 4.
Day 26: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 4.
Day 29: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 5.
Day 33: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 5.
Day 36: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 6.
Day 40: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 6.

I would also recommend that you order some Metro Meds from Goldfish Connection if you do not already have these on hand. They are the best option for internal infections (which frequently accompany Fluke infestations) if the fish is willing to accept food.

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  • Regular Member

Hi Jesse,

Have these fish ever been treated for anything? Also, one of the things that jump out at me is the nitrate being at 80. If nitrates are high in the system for long periods of time, it may affect the swim bladder of these fish. I couldn't view the video, because photobucket hates me.

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Thanks for all the hot tips, everyone! A clean tank and adding salt to Leo's 20 gallon quarantine tank has done him a world of good and his fins and tail are mostly healed already. He is still mostly sitting on the bottom, as he has been doing for many months. I now have Metro Meds and PraziPro on hand, and also bought some spirulina flakes and Pro Gold food while I was at it to change up their diet. I have a few questions at this point:

  • Should I go ahead and do some rounds of Prazi in Leo's tank? And should I do the same in the main 55 gallon tank as well even though the fish there appear to be healthy?
  • Should I feed them Metro Meds, or should I hold off and only use them if they appear to be sick?
  • When should I add Leo back into the main tank?

As for the nitrates in my tank, I've had a hard time getting them down. My tap water consistently has a higher level of nitrates than I would like - about 20 ppm - so water changes don't make as much of a difference as they should. I've added a large number of plants to my tank in hopes of reducing nitrates, but the affect is pretty small. It's also very hard to tell the difference between 40 and 80 on the API test kit since those two colors look pretty identical on the color chart, so I might not be reporting the number exactly. Anyone have suggestions about getting nitrates down or a more accurate way of testing?

Thanks!

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Thanks for all the hot tips, everyone! A clean tank and adding salt to Leo's 20 gallon quarantine tank has done him a world of good and his fins and tail are mostly healed already. He is still mostly sitting on the bottom, as he has been doing for many months. I now have Metro Meds and PraziPro on hand, and also bought some spirulina flakes and Pro Gold food while I was at it to change up their diet. I have a few questions at this point:

  • Should I go ahead and do some rounds of Prazi in Leo's tank? And should I do the same in the main 55 gallon tank as well even though the fish there appear to be healthy?
  • Should I feed them Metro Meds, or should I hold off and only use them if they appear to be sick?
  • When should I add Leo back into the main tank?
As for the nitrates in my tank, I've had a hard time getting them down. My tap water consistently has a higher level of nitrates than I would like - about 20 ppm - so water changes don't make as much of a difference as they should. I've added a large number of plants to my tank in hopes of reducing nitrates, but the affect is pretty small. It's also very hard to tell the difference between 40 and 80 on the API test kit since those two colors look pretty identical on the color chart, so I might not be reporting the number exactly. Anyone have suggestions about getting nitrates down or a more accurate way of testing?

Thanks!

I wouldn't feed Metro Meds unless one of the mods directs you to. Like you said, Leo is looking much better, and I always think it's wise to not add antibiotics unless necessary, since overuse of them can create resistance as well as decolonize the good bacteria.

I am surprised that your nitrates are 20 ppm from the tap. Are you using city water or well water? Either way, though, 20 ppm is a lot better than 80 ppm, so water changes will definitely help. My fish had ragged fins awhile back and it turned out that my weekly 50% water change just wasn't enough. I now do 95% weekly and the water is much cleaner.

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Since he's been bottom sitting for so long, it may become a permanent thing.

I am not opposed to feeding them Metro-Meds, but I don't know that it will be of much help here.

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