Jump to content

I Don't Think I Can Do This Anymore...


Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

GreenOrchid, could you please tell me why two bubble bars are any different than two airstones?

Let me find the post - i asked the same thing and got a very educated answer...... give me a sec I have to find it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 238
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Regular Member

GreenOrchid, could you please tell me why two bubble bars are any different than two airstones?

Let me find the post - i asked the same thing and got a very educated answer...... give me a sec I have to find it.

It's interesting to see what the post says, especially in light that I have had 2 bubble bars (the 12 inch kinds) on both of my 55 and 100 gallons for the past 5 years, and the 20+ fish have never surface gulped, or hated it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

GreenOrchid, could you please tell me why two bubble bars are any different than two airstones?

Let me find the post - i asked the same thing and got a very educated answer...... give me a sec I have to find it.

It's interesting to see what the post says, especially in light that I have had 2 bubble bars (the 12 inch kinds) on both of my 55 and 100 gallons for the past 5 years, and the 20+ fish have never surface gulped, or hated it.

well I had my 2 small air stones going WITH a long large air stone bar....... not a bubble bar - so maybe that's where i'm confused - I'm still looking for the post - one sec

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

GreenOrchid, could you please tell me why two bubble bars are any different than two airstones?

Let me find the post - i asked the same thing and got a very educated answer...... give me a sec I have to find it.

It's interesting to see what the post says, especially in light that I have had 2 bubble bars (the 12 inch kinds) on both of my 55 and 100 gallons for the past 5 years, and the 20+ fish have never surface gulped, or hated it.

well I had my 2 small air stones going WITH a long large air stone bar....... not a bubble bar - so maybe that's where i'm confused - I'm still looking for the post - one sec

Air stone bars and bubble bars are no different. :idont So I am still not sure where you are coming from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

GreenOrchid, could you please tell me why two bubble bars are any different than two airstones?

If you're under dosing the prime could be liberating the ammonia, aeration of new water will raise its pH making the ammonia even more toxic.

Then your filter eats it and turns it to nitrate. Regular brief exposures to ammonia could be enough to burn their gills and with the extra current from the bubble wand could be exhausting them.

__________________

Best Fishes

David

www....................com

.................. @ gmail.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I'm sorry if I misunderstood what a bubble wand is, because I've never used one before - I just had my 2 small air stones and then added a large long air stone bar and my fish reacted terribly.

This was David's response when I asked him why my fish started surface gulping - I removed the new bar and they stopped. David's always given me the answers to my problems and his knowledge has been a huge help

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I attached the explaination above

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I cant wait to see where this goes....

GreenOrchid, could you please tell me why two bubble bars are any different than two airstones?

Let me find the post - i asked the same thing and got a very educated answer...... give me a sec I have to find it.

It's interesting to see what the post says, especially in light that I have had 2 bubble bars (the 12 inch kinds) on both of my 55 and 100 gallons for the past 5 years, and the 20+ fish have never surface gulped, or hated it.

Below is the response I got to a question on why my fish were surface gulping after I added my new bubble bar.....
If you're under dosing the prime could be liberating the ammonia, aeration of new water will raise its pH making the ammonia even more toxic.

Then your filter eats it and turns it to nitrate. Regular brief exposures to ammonia could be enough to burn their gills and with the extra current from the bubble wand could be exhausting them.

__________________

Best Fishes

David

www....................com

.................. @ gmail.com

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

GreenOrchid, could you please tell me why two bubble bars are any different than two airstones?

If you're under dosing the prime could be liberating the ammonia, aeration of new water will raise its pH making the ammonia even more toxic.

Then your filter eats it and turns it to nitrate. Regular brief exposures to ammonia could be enough to burn their gills and with the extra current from the bubble wand could be exhausting them.

__________________

Best Fishes

David

www....................com

.................. @ gmail.com

I'll email and ask David myself, referring to this interesting conversation.

In a normal tank, there should not be a need to dose Prime for ammonia detoxification at any time, and we do not do this. Even during water changes, unless you have chloramine in the tap or actual ammonia, this is not a concern. Then, if you do have these compounds, then you dose accordingly.

Lastly, we recommend that all systems are buffered to 150ppm, which means that none of this should be a concern.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

GreenOrchid, could you please tell me why two bubble bars are any different than two airstones?

If you're under dosing the prime could be liberating the ammonia, aeration of new water will raise its pH making the ammonia even more toxic.

Then your filter eats it and turns it to nitrate. Regular brief exposures to ammonia could be enough to burn their gills and with the extra current from the bubble wand could be exhausting them.

__________________

Best Fishes

David

www....................com

.................. @ gmail.com

I'll email and ask David myself, referring to this interesting conversation.

In a normal tank, there should not be a need to dose Prime for ammonia detoxification at any time, and we do not do this. Even during water changes, unless you have chloramine in the tap or actual ammonia, this is not a concern. Then, if you do have these compounds, then you dose accordingly.

Lastly, we recommend that all systems are buffered to 150ppm, which means that none of this should be a concern.

http://www.goldfishkeepers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7116

This was my thread. There's no need to involve him in this...... I'm not trying to argue with you or claim I know anything more than you - I was just simply commenting on someone's post and referred back to advice that I received. Yes, I do have chloramine in my tap. So I guess that's why he gave me that advice.

I'm not by any means personal friends with David as I guess you must be - he's just someone on another site I ask for help and I would hate to loose his willingness to help me, because it seems as if you're involving him in some he said, she said silliness.

I know nothing of fishkeeping and I don't claim to - I just "thought" I was helping someone and giving some advice because they "May" have had the same issues as me.

Some of you seem to get off on calling people out and trying to stir the pot - which deters me from asking for help on this site which is unfortunate.

Please don't involve him on this nonsense - I am not trying to start anything where this conversation seems to be heading. thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

GreenOrchid, it was a simple question and you've given an answer. I think that this whole thing can be simply put as follows:

Bubble wands generally do not cause issues in aquariums, unless there is a reason that the tank needs to be 'gassed off' as in issues where PH is a concern.

Nobody is going to be directing anything negative at you. We were curious and Alex wants to ask David to explain further for himself. It is not anyone 'getting off on calling people out' or anything like that. We are all learning and this is how you learn, you ask questions.

There really is no need to be defensive. ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

GreenOrchid, could you please tell me why two bubble bars are any different than two airstones?

If you're under dosing the prime could be liberating the ammonia, aeration of new water will raise its pH making the ammonia even more toxic.

Then your filter eats it and turns it to nitrate. Regular brief exposures to ammonia could be enough to burn their gills and with the extra current from the bubble wand could be exhausting them.

__________________

Best Fishes

David

www....................com

.................. @ gmail.com

I'll email and ask David myself, referring to this interesting conversation.

In a normal tank, there should not be a need to dose Prime for ammonia detoxification at any time, and we do not do this. Even during water changes, unless you have chloramine in the tap or actual ammonia, this is not a concern. Then, if you do have these compounds, then you dose accordingly.

Lastly, we recommend that all systems are buffered to 150ppm, which means that none of this should be a concern.

http://www.goldfishkeepers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7116

This was my thread. There's no need to involve him in this...... I'm not trying to argue with you or claim I know anything more than you - I was just simply commenting on someone's post and referred back to advice that I received. Yes, I do have chloramine in my tap. So I guess that's why he gave me that advice.

I'm not by any means personal friends with David as I guess you must be - he's just someone on another site I ask for help and I would hate to loose his willingness to help me, because it seems as if you're involving him in some he said, she said silliness.

I know nothing of fishkeeping and I don't claim to - I just "thought" I was helping someone and giving some advice because they "May" have had the same issues as me.

Some of you seem to get off on calling people out and trying to stir the pot - which deters me from asking for help on this site which is unfortunate.

Please don't involve him on this nonsense - I am not trying to start anything where this conversation seems to be heading. thanks

David happens to be a member of this forum as well, and doesn't shy away from discussions, when the discussion is to ask for clarification. I don't see how that's a problem to you, and I don't see how he would stop being helpful to you, simply because someone asked for more clarification.

It seems that some people just like to think of everyone as being combative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Admin

OK well lets all take a nice good breather... We where all having a good discussion... Just cause someone want to have more clarification about a post doesn't me we are attacking... We just want to learn more than we do and this is the only way to have a Discussion....

Please everyone lets just talk...

Thanks

koko

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Wow.

Went to bed for a few hours and awoke to all these replies, many of which took us so far off course and now has me scratching my head with totally NEW questions that I don't even know where to begin...

First of all, as always, thank you to everyone that has been trying to help -- it's much appreciated. Now, I don't know who "David" is so it seems odd that someone would speak of him so casually being that I don't know who this person is. That said, now I have to begin worrying about my bubble bars and perhaps that they are causing issues with my fish and their respiration? This doesn't make any sense to me, as I was always under the assumption, based on what I had read, that bubbles in the water could only benefit fish like goodies...is this not so? I never see my fish gasping at the surface, nor have I ever -- for what that's worth. And now there is a red flag raised because of possible Prime UNDER dosing? Now I'm truly confused -- I have been dosing my tank with the amount instructed on the bottle (one capful for every 50 U.S. gallons) and what was recommended to me from Seachem directly (since I have a 60 gallon, I should use one capful of Prime plus enough to get to the first "rung" of the cap)...am I to now take it that Prime can't be under-dosed OR over-dosed?

Now, getting down to the essential core element of this thread/issue, my problem is definitely systemic and is something that is causing the fish to "blow up" (swell) with massive tumor-like bugles that form beneath their scales...THIS is the common symptom each of them have exhibited before dying. So something is causing this on a regular basis -- hence why I suspected my tap water source or possibly my exhausted carbon supply in the Aqueon filter. Something is causing bacterial-esque infections, so it must be something relating to the substrate being that the layer in my tank is so thick and I don't clean it that often. There's also the décor factor -- these pieces with the holes in the bottom of them which apparently "collect" bacteria and "dead spots" of which I have a few...this may be an issue as well because I never really remove these to clean, either...

Here's where I'm at, and if we can get this thread back on topic it would be most beneficial so that we can begin discussing this based on this latest step I have arrived at -- I am thinking of removing about half the gravel in the tank for now, removing the ornaments and just leaving the tall plants that are in there now, arranging them differently instead of just in the corners...do you guys think this will definitely help with the possibility of bacteria taking hold as I continue thinking about whether I want to do sand or not? As I said, my substrate is natural colored "river rock" type gravel that is in larger and smaller pieces; it is not a wild colored variety or anything like that, so could I begin with just thinning the layer of gravel for now?

Edited by ClinicaTerraLTD
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Your bubble bars are fine, CT. No worries. :)

I think your bolded plan is a good start. It's not so important how you get to the end result, as it is that you get there.

Edited by ChelseaM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Here's where I'm at, and if we can get this thread back on topic it would be most beneficial so that we can begin discussing this based on this latest step I have arrived at -- I am thinking of removing about half the gravel in the tank for now, removing the ornaments and just leaving the tall plants that are in there now, arranging them differently instead of just in the corners...do you guys think this will definitely help with the possibility of bacteria taking hold as I continue thinking about whether I want to do sand or not? As I said, my substrate is natural colored "river rock" type gravel that is in larger and smaller pieces; it is not a wild colored variety or anything like that, so could I begin with just thinning the layer of gravel for now?

Your bacterial cycle should not be affected if you do this, although it would be wise to check anyway. I suspect that simply by doing this, it will be much easier to do the gravel vacuum.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Here's where I'm at, and if we can get this thread back on topic it would be most beneficial so that we can begin discussing this based on this latest step I have arrived at -- I am thinking of removing about half the gravel in the tank for now, removing the ornaments and just leaving the tall plants that are in there now, arranging them differently instead of just in the corners...do you guys think this will definitely help with the possibility of bacteria taking hold as I continue thinking about whether I want to do sand or not? As I said, my substrate is natural colored "river rock" type gravel that is in larger and smaller pieces; it is not a wild colored variety or anything like that, so could I begin with just thinning the layer of gravel for now?

Your bacterial cycle should not be affected if you do this, although it would be wise to check anyway. I suspect that simply by doing this, it will be much easier to do the gravel vacuum.

What I meant Alex by "bacteria" was the BAD bacteria taking hold...and if removing the décor and half the gravel will help with possibly reducing the chances...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Here's where I'm at, and if we can get this thread back on topic it would be most beneficial so that we can begin discussing this based on this latest step I have arrived at -- I am thinking of removing about half the gravel in the tank for now, removing the ornaments and just leaving the tall plants that are in there now, arranging them differently instead of just in the corners...do you guys think this will definitely help with the possibility of bacteria taking hold as I continue thinking about whether I want to do sand or not? As I said, my substrate is natural colored "river rock" type gravel that is in larger and smaller pieces; it is not a wild colored variety or anything like that, so could I begin with just thinning the layer of gravel for now?

Your bacterial cycle should not be affected if you do this, although it would be wise to check anyway. I suspect that simply by doing this, it will be much easier to do the gravel vacuum.

What I meant Alex by "bacteria" was the BAD bacteria taking hold...and if removing the décor and half the gravel will help with possibly reducing the chances...

I think that it certainly will help, because it will enable you to vacuum more thoroughly and even in less time.

I don't know how thick your gravel is now, but certainly removing half will have a helpful effect, and if you make it so that on average the gravel bed is 1/2 inch or less throughout the tank, you will have done much to minimize potential issues. This should give you time to decide what you want to do in terms of changing substrate or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

OK well lets all take a nice good breather... We where all having a good discussion... Just cause someone want to have more clarification about a post doesn't me we are attacking... We just want to learn more than we do and this is the only way to have a Discussion....

Please everyone lets just talk...

Thanks

koko

HomerLevitating.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I want to point out that while Davids response probably unintentionally made it appear the bubble bars may have contributed to the problem, the underlying cause of the problem was ammonia.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I want to point out that while Davids response probably unintentionally made it appear the bubble bars may have contributed to the problem, the underlying cause of the problem was ammonia.

On the thread I posted my parameters - my ammonia was 0.

Again I know nothing about any of this. All I know is I added a large air stone bar one day. It was very strong and all the fish started constantly surface gulping. Then I removed it and they stopped. I just thought I was possibly helping this person...... I regret bringing it up - I must not have gotten my facts straight. Sorry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

and to the poster - sorry this went off track of your issues at hand. I hope your oranda stays healthy and your tank issues are resolved soon*

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I want to point out that while Davids response probably unintentionally made it appear the bubble bars may have contributed to the problem, the underlying cause of the problem was ammonia.

On the thread I posted my parameters - my ammonia was 0.

Again I know nothing about any of this. All I know is I added a large air stone bar one day. It was very strong and all the fish started constantly surface gulping. Then I removed it and they stopped. I just thought I was possibly helping this person...... I regret bringing it up - I must not have gotten my facts straight. Sorry

How are your fish now?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...