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GreenTea

The nightmare continues

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So all of my adult fish are alive, including the black female ranchu, BUT I believe I accidentally contaminated my main tank with my python before I knew what was up with my QT fish :(

All parameters 0 aside from nitrates which are about 15-20ppm coming out of the tap.

All are eating medicated metro gel food aside from my big blue telescope (who I am gravely concerned about.)

New developments - all of which are terrible!

Some fish in main tank have the same white dots - one small pearlscale got a tear in her fin (don't know how) and has since been resting at the top situated under the lip of the filter so she is held in place. When removed she can swim normally but also sometimes will stand up on her tail and then slowly fall backwards and rest upside down. Then she'll right herself.

Big blue butterfly, went from slight pine-coning to drastic pine coning in about 72 hours. She is older. She sustained a scale injury several months ago by wedging her fat self against the side of the tank, but never seemed to have any issues. She is bottom sitting, not eating, and very pine-coned.

Bowie, my old sakura ranchu, has some interior redness, sort of the way a white fish looks after being dropped, along her underside. Her tail also looks like it is collapsing.. falling in, has a hole on one side, and red dots on her wen with white in the middle.

My black female ranchu is not really showing any more parasites, but it almost looks like her whole slime coat is coming off now. Her eyes are clearing up, maybe just shedding her slime coat with the dying parasites?

I believe that these fish got whatever bacterial and parasitic issues came with the initial fish through the python or my hand held water changer.

I'm separating them out into two groups in brand new tanks - 40g each. Going to bleach the previous 20 gal qt tank and main tank several times and set aside. This will allow me to do quicker and more frequent water changes.

The very sick puppies are going into one and the other fish will remain in the other. Only one fish has the parasites badly, a male butterfly, he is clamped and sometimes floaty.

I've de-gunked all the filters and squeezed them out and transferred each filter to each 40gb so they will have a cycle.

Pictures coming, going to do another round of formulin and keep feeding the gel food, fingers crossed. I will try to get a video as well to show some behaviors I'm seeing.

----

I am thinking it may be prudent to separate the blue girl to her own tub as well and try treating with epsom salt and metro just in the water along with offering small portions of the medicated gel food or try hand feeding.

I am no longer worried about breeding this year, just trying to save my stock that caught this monster bug. I'm so glad I haven't lost any adults yet but I am skeptical that they will all survive as well.

Edited by GreenTea

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:( sorry Niki that is soooooo terrible!!! What about raising the heat to 90 F in the tank? Doing that saved my last two, although they were not showing many symptoms.

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I'm so sorry Niki! :hug

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Hi Niki,

I am not familiar with the details of your recent problems. So, I have reported this to the Moderator team so that whomever has knowledge of your set up or history can help you. I will begin to follow this thread as well and offer whatever help I can :)

Edited by jmetzger72

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It might also be a good idea to fill out the form again here in this thread for quick reference. The checklist link is in my signature.

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It might also be a good idea to fill out the form again here in this thread for quick reference. The checklist link is in my signature.

Thanks, I will add the few I missed here, everything else is in the original post.

Temp is 68 in each 40g tank, 100% water changes every other day to allow for medication to run its course. All of these fish previously healthy with no issues until these new qt fish arrived. Have been doing 100% water changes every two days on main tank and separate 20g tank until now.

Here is the initial thread - All of these fish have died except for the large black female ranchu who is now with the others in the two 40gb tanks. It's not especially pertinent for that reason but does show the nasty history.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/116741-baffled-black-ranchu-issue/

Edited by GreenTea

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It looks like Alex was trying to help you with this. He is away today. Hopefully he will see the report tomorrow and be able to chime in here.

So, it looks like you are using Formalin to treat what seems to be a particulary virulent case of Ich. Has it worked at all? Did you ever try the Coppersafe that Alex recommended?

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So sorry about this, GreenTea.

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I'm so sorry, Niki. I understand from Allison that the buyer 'feels very badly' about this but I really feel that a review of the seller with concrete information should be posted after this is all over. Obviously, the danger is not simply that the shipped fish die, but that cross-contamination can occur. Potential purchasers should be aware that this has happened and what remedy the seller has offered.

I hope that treatment helps your beautiful fish.

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I'm very sorry that all this is going on, and I hope that you're able to put things right. :hug

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Sorry to hear about that.

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This is just terrible, Niki, and I am so sorry. It does sound like it's some sort of super ich for most of them, and if that's the case, I don't think the Metro will play a primary role.

I like Allison's idea very much, because it doesn't rely on any more meds, and the heat is not something ich can develop resistance to.

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This is just terrible, Niki, and I am so sorry. It does sound like it's some sort of super ich for most of them, and if that's the case, I don't think the Metro will play a primary role.

I like Allison's idea very much, because it doesn't rely on any more meds, and the heat is not something ich can develop resistance to.

I am trying to, I am without heaters or money for heaters until Friday :(

I don't think they can tolerate medicine that would be harsh enough anyway.

Alex - Some fish are showing symptoms of bacterial issues - the red streaking and such, so the metro was more for that.

I am thinking I will epsom salt and metro the worst girl in her own tub. How many days can she be in epsom salt, is it up to 8?

I am devastated that my sakura ranchu is sick. I got her in 2012 after finding my new job and while not perfect, I adore her.

Finishing photos right now.

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I'm so sorry. :(

The fish can be in Epsom at least for 1 year :rofl

I derive at this number for my cohort of fish, who have been in Epsom as part of a regimen to increase general hardness. At the doses that I am using, which is quite similar to what you are using, it should not really be an issue. We make that 8 day recommendation based on the old mod team suggestion, and while it doesn't hurt to do more, have not found reason to encourage longer, since in most cases, it's not really necessary. :)

I agree that the metro-meds is a very good idea at the moment for secondary issues.

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These are the worst 4. I have them separated from the rest of the flock in case one passes... :(

Is there any hope for my butterfly who has flipped over? Seems like such a weird symptom and he has the worst ich coverage.

I would like to just try heat, salt, and metro food but have only 2/3 of those ingredients.

 photo IMG_20140415_213403_748_zps1yev54l9.jpg

 photo IMG_20140415_213409_514_zpsgmqcleyc.jpg

 photo IMG_20140415_213502_492_zpso2bqqlpx.jpg

 photo IMG_20140415_213515_576_zpsnztxgdj3.jpg

 photo IMG_20140415_213521_831_zpsqwlgdxwm.jpg

 photo IMG_20140415_213530_994_zps4aqfqlll.jpg

 photo IMG_20140415_213553_378_zpsbcfkulq9.jpg

 photo IMG_20140415_213605_542_zpsa9rthhrx.jpg

Hard to see but he has red spots where the pectorals meet the body ^

 photo IMG_20140415_213619_749_zpsalen3a5l.jpg

 photo IMG_20140415_213639_813-1_zpsapbjmni3.jpg

Black ranchu is way better but still clamped, bottom sitting, shedding slime coat

 photo IMG_20140415_213709_316_zpsipuvxiqz.jpg

 photo IMG_20140415_213718_368_zpsgjrod5fr.jpg

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how heartbreaking.. Niki, my thoughts are with you.. sorry this is happening :(

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how heartbreaking.. Niki, my thoughts are with you.. sorry this is happening :(

Thanks sweet lady. Would you recommend heat, salt, and metro meds as well Helen?

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I sure would.. i am hoping you can get a heater really soon :heart

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I sure would.. i am hoping you can get a heater really soon :heart

Is heat plus epsom salt OK? I know I'll need extra aeration with the heat regardles..

Thank you. Feeling like I'm losing some of my kids.

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sweetie, this is a hard road to travel for anyone and most of us have been there. we totally understand how hard it is to be trying and losing. the hope of having things turn around to positive is what keeps us determined to continue every day..

heat plus Epsom is totally fine.. it's how we treat dropsy, which it looks like is also going on here.

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Niki, I'm so sorry. I have a 25W Eheim Jager heater that you are welcome to. It maybe too small for your purposes though--it works to 7-8 gallon tanks.

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AND THE POWER WENT OUT

:madrant :madrant :madrant :madrant :madrant :madrant

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Niki, I'm so sorry. I have a 25W Eheim Jager heater that you are welcome to. It maybe too small for your purposes though--it works to 7-8 gallon tanks.

Thanks for the offer Lisa :) Sweet of you.

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Hi, I'm so sorry that this has happened. I had a recent similar experience with chilo getting into my tanks, but it wasn't as bad as this :(

I hope the moderators don't mind me posting this, but I thought it might be useful information for you. Initially when my fish got infected I thought they might have ich. Many years ago I consulted a few times with a dedicated fish vet who worked in the city I live in, who was very knowledgable and has specialist postgrad qualifications in aquatic veterinary medicine. He had since moved on and worked in aquaculture and research and now lectures at the vet school at the university of Adelaide. Anyway, I got a bit cheeky and emailed and asked him about his recommendations for treating ich and he was kind enough to reply:

The lifecycle is temperature dependent in its speed and so the warmer the water is the faster the cycle and hence the easier it is to get the free living stages exposed to tank water treatments. You just have to be careful not to stress the fish at higher temperatures but if you can sneak them up the treatment will be quicker.

In my hands the malachite formalin treatments have been most affective and I would raise the salinity to at least 5 grams per litre sea salt (roughly a teaspoon per litre) over 2 days. Seems like a lot but the parasite doesn’t like salt and it will help the stress in the fish.

So follow the treatment regime for the commercial product of Quick cure and following treatment undertake a 30-40% water change maintain salt levels and treat again. After a week or so and no signs on the fish water change don’t add salt and you should have a cure. I would watch closely over the next 2 weeks for any recurrent signs and if seen repeat treatment asap before the tank burden of parasite builds up.

Obviously with the extra burden of dropsy the salt is no doubt out of the equation and I think you are treating with formalin anyway, but just thought it might make you feel better to know that it is a treatment with veterinary sanction.

This is a horrible experience for you and I was really sorry to read about your problems.

I hope I read of a speedy resolution and positive outcome for your fish.

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