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Morgan'sMiracles

What items are entirely necessary for a happy, healthy goldfish?

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One thing to communicate to your parents is that with goldfish you'll need lots more water than with your tropical fish. Typically >50% of their water is changed weekly, and during the quaratine period you'll be doing 100% water changed daily. The quarantine period will be for several weeks. There is a thread on kokos about how to quarantine your goldfish (I suggest you read this). I suggest not quarantining a goldfish in your 30 gallon tank. So you'll want to add to your list a 10 gallon tank with air pump and air stone. Also some salt like Morton's canning and pickling salt (that is just plain old salt with no additives). On the quarantine thread you can read more about some other things you'll need (like prazi and other meds just to have on hand).

It may sound like a lot of work, but I think you'll love having goldfish! And we are here to help!

Aha, thanks. If I get the long python so that it reaches the ground outside my window, using the python for water changes should be no problem. My only problem will probably be keeping people out of the bathroom while I fill the tank back up, if I get a long enough hose. I do have a ten I can use for quarantine, and an air pump, and salt. I'll look into the article. Is Prazi available at PetCo?

You can make the python 50 ft with the extension hose. As for the ceramic media, I use one bag from aquaclear and one from another manufacturer. Basically whatever will fit in the filter box. I have the aqeuon 55/75 and I just wrap the blue grids with filter floss, and stuff some in front where the water enters the filter area. I stuff it in front to quiet the water flow a bit.

Do you know where I can get the ceramic material?

@Koko thank you for the links!

Edited by Morgan'sMiracles

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I looked at petco and petsmart website and I didn't see Hikari Prazipro, so I assume they don't have it in their stores. Do you have a local fish store (we refer to this as "lfs")? They would carry the prazipro. Certainly you can get it on amazon.com if your parents let you shop online.

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You mentioned that you have two other fish tanks already that have been up and running already for a Year.

What water conditioner have you been using for them?

If you have a proper conditioner already then you can scrap the prime from your list and just use your current confitioner.

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You can get the ceramic media at almost any pet store that sells filters and filter supplies. Just look for something like this

http://www.amazon.com/Marineland-PA11484-Canister-Filter-Ceramic/dp/B000NRVLIU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1397240499&sr=8-3&keywords=ceramic+media

I like the stuff that comes in bags rather than the loose material. The bags are easier to move around when cleaning and positioning all the the stuff in the filter.

Also, if you need to order from someplace, you can try Tastyworms.com . They sponsor this site and there is a link in the classified section. He has very good prices and in most, if not all cases, is cheaper than the other sites out there.

Edited by HomerJay

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One thing to communicate to your parents is that with goldfish you'll need lots more water than with your tropical fish. Typically >50% of their water is changed weekly, and during the quaratine period you'll be doing 100% water changed daily. The quarantine period will be for several weeks. There is a thread on kokos about how to quarantine your goldfish (I suggest you read this). I suggest not quarantining a goldfish in your 30 gallon tank. So you'll want to add to your list a 10 gallon tank with air pump and air stone. Also some salt like Morton's canning and pickling salt (that is just plain old salt with no additives). On the quarantine thread you can read more about some other things you'll need (like prazi and other meds just to have on hand).

It may sound like a lot of work, but I think you'll love having goldfish! And we are here to help!

If the tank is being fishlessly cycled before adding fish, it is fine to do a QT in the main tank, and will not have to do 100% daily changes since the QT tank is cycled and the meds often used for QT won't cause an issue with the new cycle. :)

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You mentioned that you have two other fish tanks already that have been up and running already for a Year.

What water conditioner have you been using for them?

If you have a proper conditioner already then you can scrap the prime from your list and just use your current confitioner.

I would suggest switching over to Prime after your other conditioner is gone, though. ;)

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I looked at petco and petsmart website and I didn't see Hikari Prazipro, so I assume they don't have it in their stores. Do you have a local fish store (we refer to this as "lfs")? They would carry the prazipro. Certainly you can get it on amazon.com if your parents let you shop online.

I'll check our lfs, then amazon. I'll add it to my necessities list.

You mentioned that you have two other fish tanks already that have been up and running already for a Year.

What water conditioner have you been using for them?

If you have a proper conditioner already then you can scrap the prime from your list and just use your current confitioner.

I don't remember the name, but it's from tetra or aqueon, I think. I'll change over to prime when it runs out, then.

You can get the ceramic media at almost any pet store that sells filters and filter supplies. Just look for something like this

http://www.amazon.com/Marineland-PA11484-Canister-Filter-Ceramic/dp/B000NRVLIU/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1397240499&sr=8-3&keywords=ceramic+media

I like the stuff that comes in bags rather than the loose material. The bags are easier to move around when cleaning and positioning all the the stuff in the filter.

Also, if you need to order from someplace, you can try Tastyworms.com . They sponsor this site and there is a link in the classified section. He has very good prices and in most, if not all cases, is cheaper than the other sites out there.

Alright I'll check it out, thanks to all of you! Edited by Morgan'sMiracles

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Each to their own. But prime is not essential.

Plenty of other products available.

And if she has been using one with good success already then id stick to what is being used as dosage rates etc are already known.

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I use Tetra AquaSaafe+. I'm almost out of it, though... Like, not even enough to set up the thirty gallon.

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What about prazi for flukes or prazipro isn't that necessary as well??

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Everybody's pretty much nailed it... But I'll I've my opinion anyways XD

-A heater is really unnecessary, I've never owned one. Typically, whatever temp you keep your house at in the winter will be fine for goldies.

- a bubbler and air pump isn't necessary either, as your two strong filters will provide enough surface movement. So that can wait til later.

- what IS a necessity that you didn't have down is a water changer such as a python or Aqueon. Seriously, save the money you woulda spent on a heater and air pump and get one. They make your life so much easier, especially with a 30 plus tank!

- it may be a good idea to get a basic medication supply on hand if you have the money, just in case you would ever need it. Better safe than sorry. There's a whole other thread on that though :D

- a toothbrush, algae scrubber, and a couple of buckets are not necessities for your fishes, but you will def use then during WC and filter cleanings and makes life easier :)

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What about prazi for flukes or prazipro isn't that necessary as well??

I've already added it to my list ^^

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Oh, and this one isn't a must have for some but it is for me: a light timer that you program to turn your light off and on for you and pre determined times of the day. I got mine for $5 at Home Depot and it was the single best tank accessorie I bought lol

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Everybody's pretty much nailed it... But I'll I've my opinion anyways XD

-A heater is really unnecessary, I've never owned one. Typically, whatever temp you keep your house at in the winter will be fine for goldies.

- a bubbler and air pump isn't necessary either, as your two strong filters will provide enough surface movement. So that can wait til later.

- what IS a necessity that you didn't have down is a water changer such as a python or Aqueon. Seriously, save the money you woulda spent on a heater and air pump and get one. They make your life so much easier, especially with a 30 plus tank!

- it may be a good idea to get a basic medication supply on hand if you have the money, just in case you would ever need it. Better safe than sorry. There's a whole other thread on that though :D

- a toothbrush, algae scrubber, and a couple of buckets are not necessities for your fishes, but you will def use then during WC and filter cleanings and makes life easier :)

I'm not saving any money on not buying a heater or bubbler because those are the two things I actually already have XD

I plan on purchasing Prazi, but I don't think I can manage any other medicines right now. I do have salt though, which is helpful.

I got a toothbrush for the tank, and I'll buy a scrubber. I got buckets, and I'll try to get a python sometime soon.

Your two cents are always appreciated :P

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Everybody's pretty much nailed it... But I'll I've my opinion anyways XD

-A heater is really unnecessary, I've never owned one. Typically, whatever temp you keep your house at in the winter will be fine for goldies.

- a bubbler and air pump isn't necessary either, as your two strong filters will provide enough surface movement. So that can wait til later.

- what IS a necessity that you didn't have down is a water changer such as a python or Aqueon. Seriously, save the money you woulda spent on a heater and air pump and get one. They make your life so much easier, especially with a 30 plus tank!

- it may be a good idea to get a basic medication supply on hand if you have the money, just in case you would ever need it. Better safe than sorry. There's a whole other thread on that though :D

- a toothbrush, algae scrubber, and a couple of buckets are not necessities for your fishes, but you will def use then during WC and filter cleanings and makes life easier :)

I'm not saving any money on not buying a heater or bubbler because those are the two things I actually already have XD

I plan on purchasing Prazi, but I don't think I can manage any other medicines right now. I do have salt though, which is helpful.

I got a toothbrush for the tank, and I'll buy a scrubber. I got buckets, and I'll try to get a python sometime soon.

Your two cents are always appreciated :P

Yeah you'll he doing well to have canning and pickling salt and prazi in your medicine cabinet :) since it's cheap, you may want to keep Epsom salt on hand just in case too.

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Everybody's pretty much nailed it... But I'll I've my opinion anyways XD

-A heater is really unnecessary, I've never owned one. Typically, whatever temp you keep your house at in the winter will be fine for goldies.

- a bubbler and air pump isn't necessary either, as your two strong filters will provide enough surface movement. So that can wait til later.

- what IS a necessity that you didn't have down is a water changer such as a python or Aqueon. Seriously, save the money you woulda spent on a heater and air pump and get one. They make your life so much easier, especially with a 30 plus tank!

- it may be a good idea to get a basic medication supply on hand if you have the money, just in case you would ever need it. Better safe than sorry. There's a whole other thread on that though :D

- a toothbrush, algae scrubber, and a couple of buckets are not necessities for your fishes, but you will def use then during WC and filter cleanings and makes life easier :)

I'm not saving any money on not buying a heater or bubbler because those are the two things I actually already have XD

I plan on purchasing Prazi, but I don't think I can manage any other medicines right now. I do have salt though, which is helpful.

I got a toothbrush for the tank, and I'll buy a scrubber. I got buckets, and I'll try to get a python sometime soon.

Your two cents are always appreciated :P

Yeah you'll he doing well to have canning and pickling salt and prazi in your medicine cabinet :) since it's cheap, you may want to keep Epsom salt on hand just in case too.

What's the difference between Epsom salt and canning and pickling salt? The salt I currently have is API Aquarium Salt.

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Most on here use canning and pickling salt from the grocery store because it accomplishes the same thing as aquarium salt for much cheaper :) it has no extra additives, and that's what you wanna look for. Epsom, on the other hand, is usually used when a fish had dropsied. It helps reduce bloating... It's something I keep on hand just in case I have a fish dropsy.

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Epsom salts is magnesium sulfate. Canning and pickling salt is sodium chloride.

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Epsom is used when a fish is retaining fluid, for example when they have Dropsy. It also acts as a very good laxative.

If you used aquarium/canning salt for that, you would have a very sick fish as that type of salt causes a fish to retain fluid. It is also able to be used at higher concentrations than Epsom, for things like salt dips and helping in healing of wounds.

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OHHHH, okay, thanks guys! How much does Epsom salt run? And canning salt? So I can add them to my list. :D

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Canning salt should run you somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-3 dollars for a 2lb box, which lasts a very long time. Epsom should run you 3-4 dollars for a smaller container. Both are often available at the grocery store. :)

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Okay, thank you. I'll make sure to pick some up before I purchase a fish! Is there anything else I should know/keep in mind?

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Cycling could take upwards of a month or more if you do it without pre-seeding from your betta tank. The main reason I recommend doing that is because your betta fish don't have a very high bioload and therefore instead of providing enough beneficial bacteria, you may just be introducing different microorganisms to the water. That's not only not what you're aiming for but it isn't beneficial. Just adding ammonia to the new tank will actually encourage the growth of the beneficial bacteria without the need to pre-seed, while not introducing unnecessary things into the environment. This way, when you get the tank cycled and get your goldfish, you'll know the environment they are going into is clean and the only things you'd have in the water besides brand new BBs will come with your new fish.

Over that month that it may take to cycle properly, you can spend time researching just what type of goldfish/food/environment you would like, as well as where you plan on purchasing these things. Right now, all you need to get started cycling the tank is the tank itself, the filter, the filter media, your heater, the water conditioner, and the ammonia. All of the rest of the stuff you'll need can come after you've cycled the tank. :) A little planning with a goldfish tank can go a long way as you will start off right the first time and not have to spend more than absolutely necessary. (You've already found that goldfish are a little more expensive to start than a betta tank.)

Finally, since I haven't seen anyone mention it, I would like to talk about filtration more than just how big you need. For filters, we on Koko's like to use specific types. The most popular filters you will see on here would be the HOB and canister filters. The reasoning for this is that these types of filters do the best job of taking care of goldfish waste. I think HOB would best suit your current needs, and there are a lot of inexpensive brands out there as well as a lot of very good ones. You could choose to buy two filters rated for 5x your tank volume and place one on either side, or one that's rated for 10x. I would suggest getting two smaller HOBs so that if one dies you will have another one keeping your cycle safe until you can replace the dead filter.

We do not recommend internal filters because they do not remove the waste from the environment, and they add a risk of electric shock to the fish if they short out (a more recent finding). Undergravel filters aren't beneficial in a goldfish tank because goldfish are messy. They produce a ton of waste that just hides under the gravel/filter and doesn't get taken care of by the filter.

Also, on the subject of substrate: the one substrate that we would request you stay away from is gravel. There are a few reasons for this: Gravel is a pain in the butt to get clean when you have a fish that produces a ton of waste like a goldfish does. Gravel can get stuck in your fish's mouth and choke them. Most gravels you'll see that are cheap to purchase are coated in paint that flecks off as the gravel ages, which we are not sure is very good for your fish.

Substrates aren't necessary in a goldfish tank if you can provide things for them to forage in/around like a scatter of large river stones and/or stones with plants glued on (Barebottom tank), but if you would like a substrate I would definitely recommend sand as a good choice. Make sure to keep all substrates at 1/4"-1/2" thick if you don't plan on planting in them.

....wow that was a lot longer than I thought it would be. :teehee

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Cycling could take upwards of a month or more if you do it without pre-seeding from your betta tank. The main reason I recommend doing that is because your betta fish don't have a very high bioload and therefore instead of providing enough beneficial bacteria, you may just be introducing different microorganisms to the water. That's not only not what you're aiming for but it isn't beneficial. Just adding ammonia to the new tank will actually encourage the growth of the beneficial bacteria without the need to pre-seed, while not introducing unnecessary things into the environment. This way, when you get the tank cycled and get your goldfish, you'll know the environment they are going into is clean and the only things you'd have in the water besides brand new BBs will come with your new fish.

Over that month that it may take to cycle properly, you can spend time researching just what type of goldfish/food/environment you would like, as well as where you plan on purchasing these things. Right now, all you need to get started cycling the tank is the tank itself, the filter, the filter media, your heater, the water conditioner, and the ammonia. All of the rest of the stuff you'll need can come after you've cycled the tank. :) A little planning with a goldfish tank can go a long way as you will start off right the first time and not have to spend more than absolutely necessary. (You've already found that goldfish are a little more expensive to start than a betta tank.)

Finally, since I haven't seen anyone mention it, I would like to talk about filtration more than just how big you need. For filters, we on Koko's like to use specific types. The most popular filters you will see on here would be the HOB and canister filters. The reasoning for this is that these types of filters do the best job of taking care of goldfish waste. I think HOB would best suit your current needs, and there are a lot of inexpensive brands out there as well as a lot of very good ones. You could choose to buy two filters rated for 5x your tank volume and place one on either side, or one that's rated for 10x. I would suggest getting two smaller HOBs so that if one dies you will have another one keeping your cycle safe until you can replace the dead filter.

We do not recommend internal filters because they do not remove the waste from the environment, and they add a risk of electric shock to the fish if they short out (a more recent finding). Undergravel filters aren't beneficial in a goldfish tank because goldfish are messy. They produce a ton of waste that just hides under the gravel/filter and doesn't get taken care of by the filter.

Also, on the subject of substrate: the one substrate that we would request you stay away from is gravel. There are a few reasons for this: Gravel is a pain in the butt to get clean when you have a fish that produces a ton of waste like a goldfish does. Gravel can get stuck in your fish's mouth and choke them. Most gravels you'll see that are cheap to purchase are coated in paint that flecks off as the gravel ages, which we are not sure is very good for your fish.

Substrates aren't necessary in a goldfish tank if you can provide things for them to forage in/around like a scatter of large river stones and/or stones with plants glued on (Barebottom tank), but if you would like a substrate I would definitely recommend sand as a good choice. Make sure to keep all substrates at 1/4"-1/2" thick if you don't plan on planting in them.

....wow that was a lot longer than I thought it would be. :teehee

Alright, I'll try the way of cycling without preseeding... I've never down that before. Hopefully all goes well! I'm planning on buying the 55/75 Aqueon something-or-other as the main filter, and I'll put in a small 10g filter as a backup, so they'll still have some filtration if the big one breaks.

I plan on doing my tank bare bottom, as I've heard it's easier. I'll be getting big marbles for them to play with and little stones to be scattered over the bottom. I actually have a dollar tree right buy my house that I can get the stones from, for cheap. I plan on having aponogetons in tea cups/soup mugs, and my vallisneria I'll put in a teapot as the centerpiece of my tank. I'll also have a dwarf lily in a square bowl in the corner of my tank. I also have some Anubias, but I plan on getting some more for my tank. I might also add in some of my java fern. :D

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