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Gumdrop's Quarantine 2


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This was the first one:

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/116766-gumdrops-quarantine/

Since I'm not going to do it in the tank with his little neon buddy and the plants, I figured it would be better to start a new thread.

I have a brand new 10G for quarantine and a 40B that I need to fishless cycle. (thanks DPG sale!)

I have the Q tank set up with an airstone(on a 60G pump) and 2 anubias, tomorrow the water will be day old water. If I can get the temp the same, I'd like to add Gumdrop tomorrow. There is Prime and Stress Coat in the original tank, do I add the same to the Q tank, or just the Prime? Normal dose?

I moved the original 10G into my bedroom temporarily, until Gumdrop can get moved into the 40B.

The 40B will have to be cycled in my daughter's old bedroom because of the ammonia. During the last big water change, it will be put in my room.

I did a 75% wc on the original 10G when I moved it.

Day old tap, 10G and 10G Qtank all have the same perimeters A( 0-.25, but closer to 0)Ni(0)Na(0) Ph(7.4) Gh(1drop)Kh(1drop)

My first question is, do I add Prime & Stress Coat, just Prime, nothing? Sorry for repeating myself. :whistle

Can I feed him normally while he's in QT? He eats alot for a little guy, I'm hoping to weigh him before putting him in the Q tank. :clapping:

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This was the first one:

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/116766-gumdrops-quarantine/

Since I'm not going to do it in the tank with his little neon buddy and the plants, I figured it would be better to start a new thread.

I have a brand new 10G for quarantine and a 40B that I need to fishless cycle. (thanks DPG sale!)

I have the Q tank set up with an airstone(on a 60G pump) and 2 anubias, tomorrow the water will be day old water. If I can get the temp the same, I'd like to add Gumdrop tomorrow. There is Prime and Stress Coat in the original tank, do I add the same to the Q tank, or just the Prime? Normal dose? as long as the temp and pH match it's all good to put him in. Prime does the same thing as stress coat EXCEPT, it detoxifies ammonia of up to 1ppm for 24 hours and uses less then stress coat would. I believe the dose for a ten gallon tank is to the first rim on the lid :)

I moved the original 10G into my bedroom temporarily, until Gumdrop can get moved into the 40B.

The 40B will have to be cycled in my daughter's old bedroom because of the ammonia. During the last big water change, it will be put in my room.

I did a 75% wc on the original 10G when I moved it. a good ammonia is Ace janitorial strength. What ever ammonia you choose, make sure when you shake it there aren't any soap bubbles and is original and scent less. I can give you media to seed the filter when QT is over! :nana

Day old tap, 10G and 10G Qtank all have the same perimeters A( 0-.25, but closer to 0)Ni(0)Na(0) Ph(7.4) Gh(1drop)Kh(1drop)

My first question is, do I add Prime & Stress Coat, just Prime, nothing? Sorry for repeating myself. :whistle only the prime :) bacteria colonize quicker in warmer water (80 or so degrees) and a higher kH. Since the 40 breeder holds about 45 gallons, you would need to add 5 teaspoons of baking soda to get the kH around 150. When the gH booster comes don't add it in since it isn't really needed yet in the 40 breeder. It would be wasted since you will need to do water changes to keep the nitrites low after they start to spike

Can I feed him normally while he's in QT? He eats alot for a little guy, I'm hoping to weigh him before putting him in the Q tank. :clapping:just make sure the ammonia doesn't get too high before each water change. That will come with judgement and time throughout the QT :)

EDIT: change info Edited by Mikey
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Thank you Mikey!smiley_bestfriendsgldm.gif

This morning, the Q tank is 68.5 and the 10G is 73.2. I think I am going to switch heaters.

~~~

So far, all the ammonia I have come across is really bubbly even the ones that say "clear". I will get the right kind, even if I have to order it on line. ;)

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Thank you Mikey!smiley_bestfriendsgldm.gif

This morning, the Q tank is 68.5 and the 10G is 73.2. I think I am going to switch heaters.

~~~

So far, all the ammonia I have come across is really bubbly even the ones that say "clear". I will get the right kind, even if I have to order it on line. ;)

Next time you come down here, my Ace hardware has it. That's where I got it :)
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It probably will be 2 weeks before I can get down that way again, but we'll see. ;)

Okay :). Is there an ace in toms river? I'm sure there is :P
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:thud:heart He is even cuter than I remember!!!!! You are doing great with him!!!! He looks like he's grown a little too :teehee

He IS growing :flex: he is now longer than his neon friend!hehe.gif

I tried weighing him, but I'm not too sure I did it right. It looked like he weighed 3 grams? In ounces, it came up .1 I don't know what that means. :unsure:

Do I do a water change tomorrow? or just test it?

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okay. Let's let him adjust since it's kind of late to really do anything (salt dip etc) Tomorrow, can you please test the water for me? :) let's see what the ammonia goes to in 24 hours.

Edited by Mikey
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Do you have your prazipro yet? :) This is the schedule that should be followed:

Day 1: Big WC (>50%), add Prazi. Make sure salt is at the appropriate concentration. This is the beginning of Round 1.
Day 5: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 1.
Day 6: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 2.
Day 10: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 2.
Day 11: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 3.
Day 15: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 3.
Day 16: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 4.
Day 20: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 4.
Day 21: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 5.
Day 25: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 5.
Day 26: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 6.
Day 30: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 6.

This is enough for 6 rounds, should you need to go out that far.
Some reminders: Prazipro should only have salt to 0.1% if you are using regular dose. If double dosing Prazipro, you can raise salt to 0.3%.

Here is how you use the salt :)

Because salt occupies such a prominent place in our medicine cabinet, and because the misuse/abuse/prolonged use of salt can lead to a host of problems not unlike the things we are trying to cure, I thought to revisit this topic and expanded a little bit on what Trinket had laid out for us, namely to discuss the use of the specific salts and how to properly measure the amount of salt we need.

1. What type of salt can be used safely?

As Trinket had said in her post, any salt that does not contain additives (including yellow prussiate of soda, anti-caking agents, minerals, or iodine) is ok for use in our aquariums. Most commonly, this translates to using aquarium salt (some manufacturer include API and jungle). Aquarium salt usually comes in larger grains. Additionally, Morton's Canning & Pickling salt has been found to be safe and effective to use. Morton's C&P salt comes in a four pound box (all green or blue/green) and can be found in the salt section of many grocery stores in the United States. Morton's C&P salt is very fine grain (looks more like table salt), and is usually the cheapest option available. The C&P salt is often times 5-10x cheaper than aquarium salt. A box of Morton's Canning & Picking Salt looks like this

20855-mortons-canning-and-pickling-saltp

2. Dosages of salt & how to add salt to the tank

Depending on the situation, you'll be using 0.1%, 0.2%, or 0.3% salt to treat your fish. However, to prevent osmotic shock to fish and to minimize salt's effect on the tank's cycle bacteria, salt is only added at 0.1% increments every twelve hours to the 0.3% salt maximum. You should never just dump salt grains into the tank. When you do that, your fish will most likely rush to the salt and try to eat it. Salt granules can be very irritating/damaging to fish gills, so you should always dissolve the salt first before adding to the tank. The easiest (and quickest) way to do this is to take some tank water (or de-chlorinated water) and heat on the stove top. Once the water is hot/boiling, you can add the necessary amount of salt to dissolve, let cool to the same temperature as the tank temp, and add to the tank. [10/13/2013 edit: I have found over the last two years that actually, the easiest, and probably better, way of dissolving salt is to put the amount of salt you need into a pantyhose/nylon mesh, tie it up, hang it in the tank, and let it slowly dissolve. This way, you won't have to fuss with dissolving it first, and the salinity is brought up more slowly, which is less shock for the fish.]

3. How to correctly measure out salt for use

Using teaspoons per gallon
0.1% salt is 1 teaspoon of salt per gallon. However, because we never fill our tanks to 100% capacity, always estimate the water volume to be a little bit less than your actual tank size (9 gallons for 10g tank, 18 gallons for 20 gallon tank, and so on). This measurement calls for using level teaspoon, not rounded teaspoon. Also, if you are using Morton's Canning & Pickling Salt, 0.1% salt is actually 3/4 teaspoon per gallon, since the Morton's salt grains are much finer, and so you actually get a lot more salt per teaspoon of Morton's than compared to the larger grained aquarium salt.

Metric system and the scale
0.1% salt is 1g/liter of tank water. There are 3.79 liters in a gallon. So, whatever size your tank is in gallons, multiply that by 3.79, and that is how many grams you need in order to raise the salinity of your tank to 0.1%. Here are some common sizes and the amount of salt you will need to raise the salt by 0.1%

- 10 gallons = 10x3.79 = 37.9 grams of salt to increase salt concentration to 0.1%
- 20 gallons = 20x3.79 = 75.8 grams of salt to increase salt concentration to 0.1%
- 29 gallons = 29x3.79 = 109.9 grams of salt to increase salt concentration to 0.1%
- 55 gallons = 55x3.79 = 208.5 grams of salt to increase salt concentration to 0.1%
- 75 gallons = 75x3.79 = 284 grams of salt to increase salt concentration to 0.1%

If you need to raise salt to more than 0.1%, then you will want to dissolve and add the correct amount of salt to your tank 12 hours later, and so on.
If your tank is already in liters, than the size of your tank is the amount of salt you will need, in grams, to raise the salinity to 0.1% (a 750L tank will need 750 grams of salt to be at 0.1%).

4. The duration of salt use
Depending of the situation, you may be advised (or have elected) to salt your tank(s) anywhere from a few days up to a maximum of four weeks.

5. The consequences of prolonged salt usage
This question has been raised many times - if salt can be so beneficial, why not just keep it in the system for longer than four weeks? There are a couple of important reasons why salt should not be used for long durations. First, like any other treatment, prolonged exposure can lead to tolerance in the case of bacteria and other pathogens, and then salt is no longer effective. Unfortunately, this has already happened because of some very irresponsible breeders/farmers who have kept their fish at low levels of salt. A prime example of this flukes. Flukes used to be very treatable with salt. However, at present salt is no longer very effective against flukes, and we have to resort to other means, such as praziquantel.

Another reason why prolonged use of salt is discouraged is because chronic salt exposure could lead to development of what is called osmotic stress in fish. Fish experiencing osmotic stress may display the following symptoms: clamped fins, disequilibrium (unable to balance itself), excited behavior (darting), lethargic (floating), rapid breathing, faded colors, salt burns as evidenced by blackened areas, and fin fraying.

Since we have never given gumdrop a salt dip (done right before adding the prazi to remove the slime coat so prazi is more effective) it would be best to do only a 1% to see how he reacts instead of a 3%. Here is how it is done.

Since 3% salt is 30 teaspoons to 1 gallon of water, (3/4 tsp. if using mortons canning and pickling sat since it is finer) 10 tsp. would be 1% to 1 gallon of water :)

For the dose of the PraziPro since he is in a ten gallon, it would be half a teaspoon. :)

I'll PM Alex so he can double check to make sure I didn't forget anything.

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For now, let's not add the Prazi. I just want you to check parameters, get plenty of Morton's (and a scale) and then salt the tank to 0.3%. We will only salt and do water changes for about two weeks, which should get rid of many of the external parasites. Then, we will add Prazi, unless we need to add it before then. :)

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Ammonia is definitely .25 today. Ph7.4, Ni-0,Na-0

Here is a vid I took right after testing. I accidentally dropped too many pellets in.

I used the turkey baster to get the rest of them out after I stopped taping.

There is some fuzzy stuff on the one anubias that wasn't there yesterday. Should I take it out or can I just rinse it off?

Do you think I should get a small sponge filter?

Can/should I do a wc? If so, how much? Do I add prime as usual?

Just realized the salt I have is Morton's kosher salt.:( I can't use that, can I? :doh11:

http://www.amazon.com/Morton-coarse-kosher-salt/dp/B001GHYO44/ref=sr_1_4?s=grocery&ie=UTF8&qid=1397233278&sr=1-4&keywords=mortons+salt

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Unfortunately no, you and use that salt :(. You can use any salt that has ZERO addatives. The ingredient list should only say salt.

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Ok, I need to know if I can use Aquarium salt and then the Morton's canning & pickling salt?

I have a small thing of API Aquarium salt (not sure how old it is, does it expire? there is no expiration date)

I've been to 4 different places and called several more and they are all out of the Morton's.

I can order it off Amazon, but won't get it until probably Tuesday.

I can get the Aquarium salt tomorrow from Petco or PetSmart if I have to.

Ph in the tank has been 7.4

Yesterday, the ammonia was .25

This morning it was .50, I did a 45% wc, added Prime and when I tested it around 6, it was.25 again.

After yesterday's fiasco with the pellets, I only gave him 5 today, is that ok?

It's these:

http://www.amazon.com/New-Life-Spectrum-Goldfish-Formula/dp/B004QQ1C38/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1397346987&sr=8-3&keywords=new+life+spectrum+goldfish+pellets

Can I feed him more? He seems really hungry, but I don't know if he really is or I'm projecting. :hummm

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You can use aquarium salt. :) that would be 1 tsp per gallon so 10 teaspoons would make it .1% I'm not sure if Alwx wants it raised to .3% right away, OR .1% every 12 hours until it is at .3%

Another salt that I've used is diamond crystal pure and natural kosher salt. It's in a red and white box with vegetables on the front. Let's see if Alex gives his approval :) you can find that one in shoprite.

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You can definitely feed him more than 5 pellets a day :). I personally would do 5 pellets 3 times a day. Let's see what Alex or someone else says :)

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