Jump to content

Pond Upgrade... yeah, that quick. Need advice on liner.


Recommended Posts

  • Regular Member

I am hoping to upgrade within the next week or two to a 150g stock tank for my indoor setup. (Rubbermaid, most likely.)

One thing I was disappointed with in my current pond is that I wound up having to quickly grab a liner for it, and found that I do not like having a black liner. It really limits not only the colors of fish I can get because I need to be able to see them, but it also just looks like a black abyss with fish. I think I would rather see algae than plain black. That got me wondering...

What could I use to give my stock tank a nice blue color inside without having to buy anything super expensive? Could I use pool liner? Also, what would be a good pond liner calculator that you guys with experience used? (I am so not good at maths.) If not pool liner, what else could I use to turn it blue that doesn't cost 69 bucks for a quart? (Yeah, I am talking about you, Pond Armor.)

Also, final question: How would be the best way to raise my current filter to the level of the new pond's rim? It's a 20g plastic flower planter, but has only got a height of 12" right now to be barely over the rim of my current setup. I would rather not build a new filter since this one is so new. (I'll likely add a supplementary filter if necessary in the future, once I find the right watering can.) I was thinking of just using a cinder block or two, but wondered if there was a better alternative.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 87
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Regular Member

Personally i don't like a blue pond it just doesn't look right or natural at all

My suggestion is leave it black and save your $$ cos in a few months if you have it all set up right you should end up with a nice carpet algae over everything which changes the black to green for free...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Personally i don't like a blue pond it just doesn't look right or natural at all

My suggestion is leave it black and save your $$ cos in a few months if you have it all set up right you should end up with a nice carpet algae over everything which changes the black to green for free...

This will be an outdoor setup for maybe 3-4 months, then be moved inside for the rest of the year, so there will not be much algae for a generous portion of the year. I am not worried about it looking natural, as it really isn't my plan. I would just like to be able to see my darker fish and bring out everyone's colors. The whole pond thing for me is not to give them a more natural environment, but to be able to easily move a large fish home place to place without worrying about damaged glass, as well as keeping it as shallow as possible.

I plan to do a light dusting of natural colored sand in mine but I know you are a bare bottom type girl :D

I wondered whether you'd want to or not. :teehee I am definitely a bare-bottom girl through and through. By the way, what size are you going to look for?

Edited by ChelseaM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Nobody wants collapsed decks. I could just see the pond falling out from beneath the fish and them reacting like in a Wile E. Coyote cartoon. :o

My current one's a 50 when you don't count filter volume, and it's still pretty big.

By the end of the season we'll both have really bright fish in our tanks. :teehee

Edited by ChelseaM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

If you want to go 150 gallons, look at the Tuff Stuff tanks rather than the Rubbermaid. The Rubbermaid tanks are expensive, heavy, and ugly because they are built to stand up to being kicked by a horse in the winter. You don't need that for an indoor pond. While the Rubbermaid 150 is better than the 100, these are still more like an aquarium in terms of surface area. You will only be able to look down on your fish.

Blue liner does exist. I have put fish in a kiddie pool this color, and while the reds looked great, white fins disappeared.

A thin layer of sand in the bottom will show off your fish well.

Another option is a 4' or 5' rigid kiddie pool. You may be able to find blue, and I think these are paintable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

At my Tractor Supply the Rubbermaid 150s are only $129.99, and they only carry up to 110g Tuff Stuff tanks unfortunately. It's not as much a choice as it is a necessity to go with something like that. It is also wider than their galvanized tanks by at least a foot. I could always build a surround for it the ugly Rubbermaid that I can break down later. I had thought of maybe going to Family Farm and Home to look, but they are more expensive than Tractor Supply.

Having white fins disappear isn't something I really would like, especially since I have 2 fish with white fins. It'd look funky with them swimming around without fins. :o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

The surround doesn't change the fact that looking into a Rubbermaid 100 or 150 is like watching your fish in an aquarium with all the sides painted black. It's your pond, and your choice, but I feel I should warn you that I have some ponds like that and I hate them.

I'd go with a kiddie pool.

You can make your own pond. All you have to do is build the sides with 2x4s and plywood and put a liner in it. You can make it any size you want. It's not much harder than making a surround and you can decorate it any way you want.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

you could paint the bottom with krylon fusion spray paint. it is supposed to be aquarium safe.

But it won't stick to a stock tank. I searched extensively and found a lot of people who tried (typically starting with krylon) and none who succeeded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Dear Terrance,

Thank you for contacting Krylon. We appreciate your inquiry.

Currently Krylon does not offer a paint or clear coating that is submersible. Consistent submersion will eventually break down and cause the paint film to fail prematurely. The longevity of our coatings would be very limited when used on submersible surfaces or substrates. You will want to look for a product that is designed for use in marine settings.

I hope this information is helpful. Please let me know if you have any other questions.

Sincerely,
Feraas
Krylon Product Support


I got this from another forum where someone asked krylon themselves.

----

The surround doesn't change the fact that looking into a Rubbermaid 100 or 150 is like watching your fish in an aquarium with all the sides painted black. It's your pond, and your choice, but I feel I should warn you that I have some ponds like that and I hate them.

I don't really see where you're coming from with the 'looking into an aquarium' thing, as the tank is 3ft wide and 4ft long. That's already almost like looking into a frag tank. I'll have to decide what to do when I get to a TSC to look, though.

I spoke to Ken at DO this morning and he said that they don't make the tuff stuff ones like they used to. He bought some last summer and they bowed and warped really badly, whereas his older ones did well. I know you said you liked them but I wondered how long ago you bought them?

I'd go with a kiddie pool.

Do you think that would be deep enough to save them from predators the 3 months everyone is outside? We have raccoons, possums, coyotes, cats, herons, hawks, snapping turtles that migrate across our yard every year, etc. that might try to get in. I will be using netting, though a kiddy pool seems too shallow to provide backup for the netting to me. Are there any specific ones you're thinking of?

You can make your own pond. All you have to do is build the sides with 2x4s and plywood and put a liner in it. You can make it any size you want. It's not much harder than making a surround and you can decorate it any way you want.

If I had access to my parents' garage in the next month I would do that in a heartbeat. I had planned on making at least one of these over the summer as a project with my significant other, on our days off of work. I'd overstock the current pond and wait, but my current tank is only a foot deep and the fish need to be moved outside in a month due to my parents hating my goldfish. (No surprise when I found that out.) Right now it's all about getting them a home for the summer.

Edited by ChelseaM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I have no idea. I am at work and have spent too much time doing non work things already today hahaha. I would tell you I will Google search for it later but I'm sure you will beat me to it since I won't get home til 11 tonight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I don't really see where you're coming from with the 'looking into an aquarium' thing, as the tank is 3ft wide and 4ft long. That's already almost like looking into a frag tank. I'll have to decide what to do when I get to a TSC to look, though.

As I said, it's your pond, and your choice. :)

I spoke to Ken at DO this morning and he said that they don't make the tuff stuff ones like they used to. He bought some last summer and they bowed and warped really badly, whereas his older ones did well. I know you said you liked them but I wondered how long ago you bought them?

Two years ago and I just have one, so his statement is based one more experience than mine. Mine is fine. What I like about these is the surface area to volume ratio, since they are shallower than the Rubbermaid and similar 100 gallon tanks. I would prefer one of those round tanks that are 8' in diameter and 2' deep, but I don't have a spot for one.

I'd go with a kiddie pool.

Do you think that would be deep enough to save them from predators the 3 months everyone is outside? We have raccoons, possums, coyotes, cats, herons, hawks, snapping turtles that migrate across our yard every year, etc. that might try to get in. I will be using netting, though a kiddy pool seems too shallow to provide backup for the netting to me. Are there any specific ones you're thinking of?

No tank is deep enough to protect against predators. You need at least 3 feet against wading birds. Netting alone is useless. A raccoon would pull that off so fast it's like it didn't exist. You have to make a cover with a wood frame and staple netting or hardware cloth to the frame. This is highly effective against predators who have not yet tasted your fish. We have all the predators you list and quite a few more. I've not had a predator take a fish yet. However, one of the pond club members who keeps goldfish in stock tanks in the city of Orlando, not out in the suburbs, has had a problem with bears -- or probably one bear. It wants to take a bath in a tank and just climbs on the cover which collapses under the weight. After it leaves, the raccoon comes along and finds this nice "dock" inside the tank that he can fish from.

You can make your own pond. All you have to do is build the sides with 2x4s and plywood and put a liner in it. You can make it any size you want. It's not much harder than making a surround and you can decorate it any way you want.

If I had access to my parents' garage in the next month I would do that in a heartbeat. I had planned on making at least one of these over the summer as a project with my significant other, on our days off of work. I'd overstock the current pond and wait, but my current tank is only a foot deep and the fish need to be moved outside in a month due to my parents hating my goldfish. (No surprise when I found that out.) Right now it's all about getting them a home for the summer.

You could make it the way I do. Draw out careful plans so you know exactly what pieces of 2x4 and plywood you need. Then go to HD or Lowes and have them cut to order. All you need to put it together is a drill and a screwdriver, which are about all the tools I can handle, although I can saw through a pvc pipe.

I have a heavily overstocked Rubbermaid 50 gallon stock tank (12" deep) outside. I have good filtration and continuous water exchange, a 1x3 and hardware cloth cover. The fish thrive in it. As long as it isn't in the sun or so shallow the fins stick out of the water, I think the shallower the better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Hmm. I know about the frame thing, and that's what I meant to say, but I guess I forgot.

As for the plywood pond, do you think there is a way to make it so it's able to be broken down and moved easily?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

If you put it together with screws, it's easy to take apart for moving. While I said You just need sides, putting a bottom piece of plywood on the bottom provides stability. I suggest making it no more than 15 inches deep. Plywood is expensive, but you only need the thin stuff, since the 2x4s provide support.

Here's one example of how you frame the sides.

Here's another. If you do a search, you will find lots of examples.

It's important to know that the outward pressure on the frame depends on the depth. The shallower the pond, the less demanding the structure. Most of what you will find is overbuilt for what you need with a shallow pond, since many are 3-4' deep.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

That does seem like a lot of framing, but I can see why it is necessary. Would something 15" deep need that? I know that Ichthius' 12" deep plywood ranchu tubs were just the plywood (no 2x4) and looked stable, but I worry about bowing if I go any deeper. I'll have to play around with my 'shopping cart' at Lowe's and HD to see which is cheaper for what I think I will need. I am worried a little about how big this pond is getting to fit my 150g needs when I put it in to the calculator. :o

Edit: Thought I would mention that my current black liner is 7'x10'.

Edited by ChelseaM
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

As I said, those were deeper tanks so they needed extra framing. I asked Ichthius about his tubs and he said they did bow, but didn't break. Also, these were made from thick plywood, and that is expensive! If you have a supporting frame you can use thinner plywood. I don't think you would need an additional upright "stud" on a side that is less than 4'.

To calculate the possible dimensions of a 150 gallon, divide 150 gallons by 7.5 gallons/cubic foot to get 20 cubic feet of volume.

If you make it 1 foot deep, the area will be 20 square feet. That could be 4'x5', ~3.5'x 5.5', 3'x6'8" -- all of which can be used with your liner.

If you make it 15" = 1.25' deep, the area will be 20ft3/1.25 ft = 16 ft2. That could be 4'x4', ~5'x3', 6'x 2'8" all of which can be done with your liner.

With these sizes, I don't think you really need to make it easy to take apart, unless you use a sedan as your "moving van." The finished structure will be two-person heavy, but it it could fit in most cars with a hatch. It also could be a moving box. :)

Edited by shakaho
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I know it will fit in my grandparents' moving trailer, so it really isn't all that big of a deal but I thought taking it apart might make things a little easier. Not necessary, just easier. Not having to take it apart means I could add a bench top though, which would be nice and give my mom a place for flower pots when I have it outdoors at home.

I am thinking about a 4'x4' box at 15" deep. It makes all the measuring a bit easier. :) It will also paper 'smaller' that way so my parents don't freak out upon seeing the thing.

I like the 'my list' thing at Home Depot's website! :lol3

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Just personal taste, but I prefer a pond that is rectangular. If I need to reach into the pond -- to catch a fish perhaps -- I appreciate a shorter dimension. This is less important with a shallow pond or if you have long arms.

It is easier to build a sturdy structure if you don't have to take it apart. You can build the box as a box, rather than four walls that need to be held together.

I've never noticed the "my list" thing at HD. It does look handy. Thanks for mentioning it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...