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What is happening to my oranda's tail?


andry6

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Test Results for the Following:

  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0 ppm
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0 ppm
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) 0 ppm
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0 ppm
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0 ppm
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0 ppm
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) PH 7.6 (KH 6 drops/107.4) (GH 3 drops turns the water a very light green.

    * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) PH 7.6 (KH 6 drops/107.4) (GH 1 drop turns water very light green) We have a water softener, so the tank and tap will always vary depending on when a water change is done and when the softener goes through a regeneration cycle.

  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API freshwater master test kit (drops)/API GH & KH test kit (drops)
  • * Water temperature? 72 degrees F
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29 gal./running for exactly 10 months today!
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Tetra Whisper 30 (145 gph) & Aqueon 30 (200 gph) so...345 gph
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? once a week/40%
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 2 days ago/80%
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 fish(oranda & fantail)/approx. 4 1/2 - 5" including tail
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime with every water change
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari purple pellets (peas once a week) just started feeding shrimp pellets

    * Any new fish added to the tank? No

  • * Any medications added to the tank? Prazi and salt
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Sunday 3/2 a.m. did 80% water change and added prazi and .1% salt to tank. Just started round 4 on Monday 3/17 and will be finished with round 4 and salt on Friday.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? I can see red veins in white oranda's tail. Normally only one or two, but Sunday 3/2 I noticed a couple more. Since then I have gradually been seeing more, but over the past couple of days I have noticed peach "splotchy" marks on his tail. I figured it was a color change from the food, so I've been keeping an eye on him. Today I noticed splits in his tail!
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Nothing out of the ordinary

I am trying to upload some pictures and possibly video for you to see. While I was taking pictures, my fan tail started biting the oranda's tail! Right in front of me, the little stinker! He has NEVER done this before so I don't know if this was just a coincidence or if that is why the other guy's tail is split. I watch these guys constantly and have never seen this behavior before. Usually the oranda has his nose in the fantail's hind end and chases him around the tank, so to see somewhat aggressive behavior out of the fantail is a surprise!

edited to add that I am still waiting for my GH booster (seachem replenish) to arrive in the mail!

Edited by andry6
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Actually, he was missing scales when we bought him last May. The scales grew back, but they didn't grow back shiny. You can see that the scales are there at certain angles, but straight on they look like they're missing.

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I do remember that now that you mention it.

:hmm

For now I don't think we need to start any further treatment. I would just watch and see if you see anymore nipping, especially since they are both acting and eating normally.

I'm sure others will chime in. We will see what they have to say. :D

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I'm really concerned about the discoloration in his tail too. It definitely has a lot of veins showing (more than usual) and of course the extreme yellowing (which I'm assuming is from the food) but the white cloudiness and peach "splotches" are new. Should I be worried?

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I would say the yellowing is from food. My orange fantail turned completely white and now her head and tail are turning yellow.

Nipping would explain most, if not all, of the other symptoms. Like I said, lets see what others have to say. Hang in there. :)

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I agree with fantailfan, & will share my experience with this...though I'm by no means an expert! I have two big males in my 75g with one breeding age female, and they fight over her by nipping each others' tails. I've caught them on more than one occasion with a tail fin in their mouths... :doh11: on the black moor I notice the nail ripping more, but on my fantail there have been red streaks, too. Hang in there! Springtime is coming and it's breeding time...heehee :nana

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On YouTube, down below the video there will be a "button" that says Share. Click on that and then copy and paste.

(:o I do this from my laptop. Not sure how to do it from a phone. :idont I upload the video from my camera to YouTube . . . )

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Here's my video. I'd like to give you an idea of what they look like and how they are behaving. Maybe you will see something I'm missing. I think they seem to be acting normal. I don't want to seem like a worry wart but this whole tail thing with the veins is freaking me out! :scared

http://youtu.be/A6nFMOITnjs

Edited by andry6
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I think they are acting normally. The other possibility as far as his tail is concerned is maybe he snags it on the plastic plants. I notice they both swim above the plants for the most part. GF tend to swim in the lower 1/3 of the tank as a rule. I wonder if they stay up there to avoid snagging on the plants? :idont

And I am the Queen of Worry. No one can top me!! :rofl3

I still think we watch them and finish out this round of prazi. :D

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Should I remove the plants and keep only silk ones in there? I don't think I'm ready to try my hand at a planted tank yet!! ;)

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update: this is a picture of my fantail last night before bed

36f655f5-6273-4daa-9fb6-ea04e0385685_zps

What is this? He had perfectly normal poo when I was watching them yesterday and then this happened?

80287ce2-def4-4be3-8ebc-618292e22ca1_zps

This is a picture of pretty normal behavior for these two. The oranda is usually the one with his head in the fantail's back end! (which is why seeing the fantail bite his tail yesterday seemed totally out of the ordinary.) But as you can see, that poo is trailing pretty far behind that little guy. The part closest to his body was clear.

I know I said yesterday that I don't want to be a worry wart but I guess it's just my nature! I just can't seem to grasp the fact that the fantail is doing that to the oranda's tail. And I have not witnessed any behavior that would suggest that he is (other that capturing him doing it that one time on film!)

Today I noticed that the fantail has some white marks on his tail. More of cloudy spots just inside the edge of the tail. No fraying or red veins though. Is it possible that these guys have a fungus or bacteria of some sort causing these problems? I'm just grasping at straws here because I just can't stop obsessing over this. :sorry:: My water parameters are good too. (other than the water being a little too soft) Please help me calm down. I'm driving myself nuts over these little lovelies.

(Oh... and I did remove the plastic plants from the tank and left only silk ones in there. I got my replenish in the mail yesterday so I will be using that to boost the GH with my water change tomorrow.)

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So far from what I see, I would remove the fish and give the entire tank a thorough cleaning. Filters, gravel, ornaments including fake plants, etc.

Some fish are more sensitive to "normal" bacteria (biofilm) than others. I myself have one oranda who will get red,cloudy, blotchy fins similar to yours if I don't scrub the bare bottom tub in which he lives at least once a month. Of course, he has other issues too and is a bottom sitter for most of the time, but I sure can tell how it affects his fins more.

In addition to that, other goldfish sometimes like to nip on "bad" fins of other goldfish. Again, in the above mentioned case, the affected oranda shares his tub with a telescope. The tele will be up the oranda's butt and nip on his fins when they are red, which makes the whole situation much worse.

In this case I need to use a divider for a few days until the oranda's fins are not red anymore. Of course I will have to first give the tub an extra cleaning to have everything as spotless as possible.

Now I can not say if your case is similar to mine or not, but giving everything an extra cleaning to remove as many bacteria as possible might not be a bad idea and will clearly not do any harm.

As for the stringy poop, I really don't have enough experience with that and don't feel comfortable giving advice on this. But I am sure that someone else will chime in soon to help you :)

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I haven't seen any more nipping and the oranda's tail doesn't seem to be getting any worse, but I still don't know if the fantail's poo is a problem. I didn't start a new topic in case this could be connected to something more going on in my tank. Does anyone have any thoughts?

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Yes, I see that kind of poo frequently, but they have normal poo, thick green poo (from the peas) and then weird poo. They both get it. Sometimes its long and white like a thread, sometimes its like a clear casing, sometimes it's like a food colored string, and sometimes it's clear then food colored then clear all in the same poo! Sometimes it's about an inch long, sometimes longer. But the one in the picture was the longest one I have EVER seen!!! But I always see normal poo too, so I am quite confused.

They are both acting normal and very interested in food.

The oranda has been chasing the fantail quite a bit lately and bumping his/her right under the tail and will bump him/her on the side of the belly when he/she stops.

(I don't know if they are boys/girls and I don't know if this is spawning or not. I am just too new at this to even know what's going on!)

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Sounds like the oranda is male and the fantail is female. :idont

As long as they are active and eating, not bottom sitting, etc, I wouldn't worry about the poop. My fish occasionally have odd poop, some more often than others. I don't treat them with anything unless I see other symptoms. :D

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Ok, good. I can relax a little bit now. :thanks I was so worried there was something more wrong.

What are your ideas on the suggestion of a complete tank cleaning to help with the tail problems? I've never removed everything and done a thorough cleaning. I clean the glass with every water change and gravel vac. I also swish the filter media in old tank water with every water change and when I see the inside of the filter getting slimy I swish that out with a brush in old tank water too. I've never taken the gravel out and cleaned the bottom of the tank.

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