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Looking for help for a sickly ranchu


MadMooCow

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Hi everyone! I'm looking for some help with my little ranhu-dude/ette. Any help and advice would be appreciated. :)

  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank): 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank): 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank): 5
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap): 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap): 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tap): 0
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): 7.2pH
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): 7.2pH
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?

API drops.

  • * Water temperature?

Estimate around 18-19C or so.

  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

200L, been running for about 13-14 months.

  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

1, 000L/ph filter that came with the aquarium + 1,200L/ph Aqua Nova canister filter.

  • * How often do you change the water and how much?

Once a week. Usually 50% (100L), once a month-ish (or more, as weather / redesign inspires) they get a 75% (150l) water change.

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?

3 days ago (Wednesday), 50% (100L)

  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?

3 fish. 5ish cm oranda, 7ish cm fantail, 5ish cm ranchu (the sick one)

  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?

API tap water conditioner, blue crystals (helps with hardness).

  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?

Hikari Lionhead, 10-12 pellets, usually once a day. Occasionally the get frozen bloodworms.

  • * Any new fish added to the tank?

No, I've have them all for about the same amount of time, take half a month or so for the fantail. Nothing in the tank is new.

  • * Any medications added to the tank?

No. Waiting on instructions before doing anything.

  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.

The fish were treated with salt and prazi during quarantine (about 3-4 weeks) 8 months ago and showed no signs of illness (didn't even react to the prazi), but haven't had anything since.

  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

Thought I saw a white layer in places on the fish's body (slime coat?), but I can't see it now, red areas around where the pectoral fins meet the body as well as red streaking in those fins.

  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?

Seems about normal behaviour wise. Interacting with the other fish (doesn't like the camera though!) and environment.

Medication on hand: I've got Melafix, Fluke and Tapeworm tablets, and salt (I think, if not its a quick nip up to safeway) and a little Seachem Prime (I'd have to get more if its going to be needed though).

Photos are on the way. I've tried to get some, but they aren't great it doesn't like the camera, it turns out. I'll keep trying but I can't make any promises that they'll be any good. I'll post what I've got when I've got something.

--The Story thus far--

I noticed the fish was fin clamping last night before bed but wasn't showing any other signs of a problem, and it was very interested in food when I fed them that night, so I wan't overly worried about it, but I made a mental note to check it out in the morning.

This morning the fish was presenting with the symptoms mentioned above (continuing to fin clamp, some white patches of slime coat, red patches by the pectoral fins as well as streaking in those fins). Fish seems to be behaving normally, interested in food (as I was testing the water it would come up with the other fish thinking there was food time!) and interacting with the other fish and the general environment.

I've got a 50L quarantine tub ready and waiting (with no filter) but I haven't moved him over yet and haven't given any treatments. I'm waiting for instructions before I do anything.

Thank you for reading!

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Hello, thank you for such a thorough description and answer! That was quite helpful, even without the forthcoming pictures. :)

I'd like to wait for pictures, but I think what you describe are classic manifestations of flukes.

Have you treated with the fluke tabs before? I would recommend a few rounds of treatment, with salt dips on the days of the first two rounds.

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Ok, of the 30-something photos, I've got two that show the problem the best. I think that the slime coat is white in places, having another look at him while trying to take the photos.

Big photos, so I'm going to link to them:

http://tinypic.com/m/i3e45z/2

http://tinypic.com/m/i3e49l/2

Gosh, the saturation is awful, the camera does not like the aquarium light - probably too strong for a good close-up photo.

dnalex: Thanks for the quick response!

If its flukes, then its fairly treatable, right? If it is flukes, I might as well treat all three of them together then (unless of course you specifically recommend the ranchu being done separately). They were probably about due for a few booster rounds anyway.

I have used the fluke tablets before, I'm definitely not new to that. I've not done the salt dips before though, I have read about it and seen videos.

I won't do anything though until you give me the go-ahead.

Linzi Glitter: Its always great to see fellow Aussie buddies, even better when they're form the same area! Thanks for the well wishes. :)

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Check their gills for me first please to make sure there is no inflammation or surprise damages.

Then do a test 1% salt dip, followed by a 3% dip the day after.

Let's plan on two rounds of flukes treatment with all three together. :)

Can you check to see if you can get some Tri-Sulfa antibiotics? Secondary bacterial infections to flukes treatment are not uncommon, so it's good to be prepared. :)

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Ok, so my inexperienced eyes had a look, and the two "good" fish's gills seemed clear and quite red, the ranchu's had a good layer of slime coat over them. That, his small size and my inexperience with such things meant I really couldn't see much of what was going on inside. Still, he doesn't appear to be gasping or breathing irregularly, if that helps.

I have enough fluke treatment for one and a half rounds, so I'll have to get more in the next day or so, I'll look for the Tri-Sulfa then too. Do you have any ideas for an alternative if I can't find the it?

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Thanks for the recommendation Helen. :)

I'll check out the place near me first (where I got the fluke and tapeworm, also Blue Planet) from. Failing that, I'll try to check out New Life Aquariums.

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Okie-dokie. I've got 25 more fluke & tapeworm tablets, 15 tablets of the Tri-Sulfa and some salt.

What's the next step from here? Should I add the first round of fluke tablets now? Should I add salt to the aquarium too or just stick to the salt dips for the fish.. or both? Should I do the 1% dip now too?

Sorry, I'm not that bright sometimes. I might need to be walked though it a bit. xD

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Hello,

No worries. We are always happy to walk you through the treatment any time you wish. :)

Here are the things I would like for you to do today:

- perform a large WC on the tank to be treated. My understanding is that this tank will have a cycled filter. Then salt the tank to 0.1% (1g/L, or 3.79g/gal). Then you may crush and add the dissolved fluke tabs to the tank. The final concentration is 2.5mg/L, and hopefully, Helen is around, because she can tell you exactly how many tablets that is per 10 gallons.

- do a 3% salt dip on each of the fish. Please make sure to weigh out the salt so that it is 3% and not more. Once the dip is done, you may add the fish to the treatment tank. :)

- in 4 days, you may begin to do another WC, taking care to keep salt at 0.1%, and then by 7 days after the first round of prazi, we begin again, exactly as I am asking you to do today.

What do you think? :)

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Sounds good to me!

I'll get started on the WC asap. 75% change large enough?

2.5mg x 200L = 500mg... which is 5 tablets (100mg per tablet according to the pack). Directions say 1 tablet per 20L (which would be 10 tablets for 200L). Unless my maths is bad (very likely). I'm happy to go with either dose, I'll trust you over the pack. :)

I'll be checking back during the WC. Fingers crossed my plants don't mind a bit of salt!

Thanks for all the help so far!

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This might be a really dumb question, but how many grams of salt (per litre) do I need for 3% salt dip?

It's not a dumb question :)

A 3% salt dip is 30 grams/L

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Thank you kindly. I suspected it was something along those lines, but I didn't want to get it wrong.

Currently refilling the tank with 0.1% salt now. Once I'm done, I'll hit them with the salt dip (aim for 5mins right, unless they can't put themselves the right way up on their own beforehand?) and put the fluke treatment in the tank after.

Poor things, I think I'll be owing them bloodworms after all this. xD

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Alright. Its all done for tonight.

The salt dips went well (though none of the fish liked it!). Both the ranchu and the fantail stuck out the full 5mins, the oranda only made it to about 3mins 30seconds before it went sideways and didn't get back up, but it recovered very quickly. Prazi's in now too.

The poor ranchu's fins seem to have gotten redder throughout the day, and during the dip I noticed red flecks in its tail too (it was on a white background, so it was easier to see). :( Poor dude, hopefully it starts feeling better soon.

Should I do the salt dips every day, or just when each round of prazi starts?

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Alright. Its all done for tonight.

The salt dips went well (though none of the fish liked it!). Both the ranchu and the fantail stuck out the full 5mins, the oranda only made it to about 3mins 30seconds before it went sideways and didn't get back up, but it recovered very quickly. Prazi's in now too.

The poor ranchu's fins seem to have gotten redder throughout the day, and during the dip I noticed red flecks in its tail too (it was on a white background, so it was easier to see). :( Poor dude, hopefully it starts feeling better soon.

Should I do the salt dips every day, or just when each round of prazi starts?

Hello, I'm glad you got everything going. The salt dip is not a happy thing for anyone (:rofl), but it's because of that exact kind of salinity shock that will kill off or force the flukes to release from the fish host. The fin congestion (redness in fins) should decrease, if not already by now. :)

Here are some of the things that you might see over the next week:

- frayed fins. If there are a lot of fin flukes, and they are now dying off, the places on the fins where they used to hook onto the host is now open and susceptible to bacterial infections, for example...that will lead to the fin deterioration. Hope the salt that you have in there (as well as the salt dip) will minimize or stop this

- bottom sitting and lack of appetite in the next 24-48 hours. The process of the flukes dying off and releasing from the fish is not a comfortable one for them, especially if there are many to start. However, they should get back up and moving and more active no later than 2 days after treatment. If it goes longer than that, then they have caught a secondary infection, and this is when the Tri-Sulfa would have to come in.

You will only want to do another salt dip at the beginning of the next round of prazi. It's perfect safe to do daily for 3 days in a row, but in this case, I don't think it's needed.

Let us know daily if you could about the progress of the fish. :)

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I haven't noticed any change in the redness, at least it doesn't look like its got worse overnight, but I don't think its really gone down either.

I am seeing fraying on the ranchu (especially on its tail). The oranda's got a few tears in its tail, but I'm not convinced that its related to this, its a very scruffy fish and has a tendency to get tears occasionally, it could have swam weirdly though the plants, I don't know, it happens with that one occasionally and not any of the other fish, usually heals on its own without complications. Fantail looks just fine.

None of the fish are quite as energetic as they usually are, but no one's really bottom sitting either. The ranchu is particularly lethargic, but still responsive to the environment (packing at the sand, rocks, swimming with the other fish) its just a bit slower than usual, although it picked up after I fed them.

Ranchu's got a bit of slime coat build up on it this morning.

​Offered them food this morning and everyone ate, truly, it would take a great deal to put this lot off their food! BIg eaters, the lot of them! I might offer them food again tonight, to help keep their strength up.

I'll post anything else I notice, also daily reports. :)

Thanks for your help. :)

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Just a quick update before bed tonight (Sunday).

Ranchu seems to be a bit more lethargic tonight than it was this morning. I offered them food tonight and it did eat one pellet, but wasn't really super into it like it usually is. There seems to be less environment pecking too, but that could just be because I've not been watching so closely this afternoon. I hope its just it being tired / spending energy recovering / reaction to the medication and it not taking any kind of unpleasant turn. The red does not seem to have spread.

The other two fish appear to be back to their normal selves, not that I'm overly worried about them (though I am concerned about them catching it worse from the ranchu, they aren't showing any signs of illness now).

I've got classes tomorrow, so I won't be home for most of the day to monitor them, and I won't be able to provide a morning report either.

Thanks for reading. :)

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Whoo. Home from classes.

Firstly, thanks for the well wishes, Scarlett and Heidio3o! :) I meant to respond last night, but I had a lot on my mind at the time.

I was really worried that I'd wake up this morning to a dead fish, I'm delighted to say that it was the complete opposite of that.

This morning I figured out why the ranchu wasn't pouncing on its food last night. With these prazi tablets, there's a bit of cellulose that drifts around the tank and coats everything. The bottle says that its harmless, but I'll let you guess who's been eating it. A lot of it. Turns out, all the ranchu needed as a good poo. I caught the it red-finned (hah) with its white poo this morning.

Ranchu was looking good before I left this morning, and looking even better this afternoon, to the point where it had the audacity to ask for food. A lot more active, a lot more chipper. The redness also looks like its gone down too. There's still quite a bit there, but it seems like there's less of it. I feel like I am seeing progress now, rather than just sitting and waiting and hoping that the meds kick in.

Other two fish are looking good and seem to be back to their usual selves.

The short version of the story is that the ranchu did a big poo, I am seeing progress with the redness, and everyone's looking a lot happier than last night.

Thanks again for all the help, I can't tell you how much I appreciate it. :)

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Ok, taking a break from study (learning the scientific names of a collection of weeds... yay).

I forgot to mention that they all ate well last night.

Update for today:

The ranchu's coming along in massive leaps. It lost a lot of the redness overnight, and continued to do so during the day. Now, you have to know what you are looking for to see it. I feel like I could actually sit and watch it disappear in front of me, its going that quickly. Its as right as rain behaviour wise too. Amazing.

Everyone's eating like the half-starved lions they think they are (so hungry, all the time, I'm so mean for not providing them with a constant stream of food!).

My plants don't seem to have died with the 0.1% salt either, which is nice. I would have been sad to lose those banana plants.

So, its a 75% water change tomorrow (with salt to 0.1%), and Saturday they start a new round of prazi (another 75% water change) with a salt dip at 3%.

Thanks for reading. :)

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