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Eugene's dropsy has really progressed :( help!

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sorry, stating that you were in the UK was my fault.. i am silly with flags :donthit:

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also just stopping in to say that i'm sending healing thoughts to your dear eugene….

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Hi guys,

Thanks for the kind words. Eugene is still struggling, but he seems to be more stable than he was before. I notice he's got a bit of tissue damage under one of his fins, so I'm treating with Melafix to help him speed up the healing of that.

Other than that, what else should I do? He is still upside down, and unable to right himself when he is swimming :(

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could we get some photos of the concern you mention, hun?

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https://www.dropbox.com/s/1l87kicdhce63e0/2014-03-15%2019.07.38.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/8vt6pzk64be4js0/2014-03-15%2019.07.28.jpg

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xi3l190rk5nhak5/2014-03-15%2019.06.49.jpg

Here are three pictures of what he's doing right now. Just lying there, not being very active. You can see his tumor and the tissue damage right at the base of one of his pelvic fins. I don't know how that happened, but it only appeared yesterday... The tumor grew quite a bit over the past month or so, you can see how big it is now :(

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hun, is he eating? will he respond if you were to try and get his attention? does he try to get back up the right way at all?

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He has been eating the past few days, but only if the food is near him. He isn't actively looking for food. He does respond when I turn on the light in my room and stuff (so he knows things are going on around him). I picked him up yesterday to get a closer look at his fin, and he did try to back up like usual, but he didn't struggle for more than a second or two. Then he just let me look at him and he tried to swim away after I let go of him.

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how often are you changing the water and are there any meds (other than the melafix) in the water right now or that he is eating? i notice a mention of Maracyn a few days ago.

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I haven't been able to pick up Maracyn or anything in the past few days. The only thing right now is the melafix.

I changed the water 3 days ago. I was thinking of doing another water change tomorrow, but the melafix says to treat for 7 days and then do a water change. Can't let it go that long though.

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no, you can't.

i am not sure why he is upside down :( but, where it concerns the wc's you can do daily changes and just keep adding the melafix back. keeping a fish with a disability like this is not a huge drama.. member Black has Google who is a constant bottom sitter. she wipes the base clean every day but i am not sure if she wc's every day or every other day. i know you have a busy schedule so i am not sure how much time you can dedicate to him and for how long, but this is a precautionary routine so that Google does not get sore spots which often bring on bacterial issues.

your fish has come a long way, with respects to the gill tumor. i remember one day how surprised you were that it just fell off :). Leonidis had all sorts of external tumors growing from his body which i would remove via surgery when they got to a certain size.. eventually i had to euth him because a tumor growing within his body was pressing on the brain and he lost most of his senses as a result.

what your fish is doing, closely resembles Mr Disabled. there i euthed a healthy fish who's only problem was a detached swim bladder (found out after i'd euthed and autopsied)..

so what i am saying is that due to my experiences on cases like this, i am not quick to advise and back thoughts of euthing, but to allow members to make decisions if they choose to keep going and offer support in whichever way i can.

your fish does not appear to be affected by the tumor. but perhaps there is something funky going on with his swim bladder, either it is detached or is affected by bacteria or simply just not functioning anymore.

i wonder if you are able to ask that someone send you MM's and give that a shot to see if it will make a difference since there is more than Metronidazole in this medicine?

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Thanks Helen :) It's so nice that you remember all that stuff :) Glad to know someone really cares.

I'll definitely be doing a water change tomorrow. I removed all the river rocks from Eugene's side of the tank (still have the tank divider in since Gill is a bit of a bully), so there's less things to trap any waste. It just seems like Eugene took such a fast downhill turn. I really hope he pulls out of this.

I might try to dig out my 10 gallon tank tomorrow. I just need to give it a really good wash before I use it. I also feel, though, that it might stress Eugene out if I move him to another tank. Should I give it a try? It would definitely be easier to do water changes then. As it stands, I have to pull out my Python and it gets all tangled and makes a bit of a mess by the sink. It's just kind of a pain in the butt! :P Smaller tank means I can use my smaller syphon and just use buckets.

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i think it's worth a shot and if you move him slowly ie, in a transparent tub whilst he's comfortable, the exchange should be very simple and comfortable for him. he's already separated from Gill, so he's already detached from the social side of things.

just be sure that the filter you use in the 10 gal is sufficient and at the same time, does not push him around too much and there also needs to be adequate aeration, again, not causing too much of a current.

if you're going to do that, can i suggest that before you do add a cycled filter, to give the Maracyn that Sharon suggested a go? better to do it without a filter as i know some Maracyns have reported to kill the cycle. so, nice aeration, no lights and a covered tank (from room light). all you need to do is follow the manufacturers instructions. it's a break from Metronidazole products and something that could help Eugene.

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hello helen and courtney, this is christine :)

i write because i had a wonderful fish who bottom sat (i.e.: bottom - laid on her side - for many months) before she eventually passed. she and i had a protocol which we followed which was not unlike what helen described -- i hand fed her 3x a day, kept her area clean, and once i figured it out, she and i commenced a kind of fisshie physical therapy - so that she could have the experience of assisted-swimming throughout the day. we very much enjoyed our time together, before it was ultimately her time to go. this was maybe fifteen years ago, and i think now, when i read accounts here, that she had tumors too…

anyhow, if there is any way i can assist, please call on me.

i am available this monday afternoon (US pacific time) to send MMs via overnight (or however quickly they can do it) to you in canada. say the word, and it's done.

with respect and good thoughts… xo

christine

ps: i also have maracyns (one and two) on hand here, which i could include in the package if that helps. there's also metro, and kana, and a whole bunch of others in the cabinet :)

Edited by melusine

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Hi Christine,

That is so kind of you! I would appreciate that so much, and I can't thank you enough. I don't know why it is so tough to find these meds in Canada. I used to be able to find maracyn in pet stores here, but I haven't seen it in a long time. And I've never even seen MM's here before. I think I'd love to try Eugene on both of those. He's such a fighter and he's been through a lot, but I've never seen him in this state before :(

I could PM you my address. Thank you again, so much!

And Helen,

I'll start working on that tomorrow then. I found my 10 gallon hidden in the basement, so I need to make sure I give it a good clean before I set him up in there.

Thank you both so much! :):heart:heart

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hello courtney. please do PM your address, and i'll write back with mine so you have it.

it is now saturday night 9p pacific time US. i have time tomorrow to go to fedex or UPS and get things started, though it may not make a difference on a sunday -- in which case i'll do it on monday afternoon about 11a or noon, my time US pacific

how big is eugene? i have a whole brand new bag of MMs that i opened about 2 weeks ago, and have used maybe a total of only 40 pellets. so i could send at least half a bag's worth, no problem.

and, helen: which maracyn would you recommend? i can get anything here and put it in the package. on hand, i have: maracyn 1 and 2, as well as seachem metro, and kanaplex. if you can advise, i'll send what's here or pick up.

good thoughts for sweet eugene...

xo

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it is Sharon (shakaho) who is recommending the Maracyn Product based on her successful experiences using the product. if you wouldn't mind PM'ing her for her recommendation, that would be best. but please ensure that all treatments are documented here on the thread and not in PM's.. just so that we're all in the 'loop' with information and that there is no mistakes when directing the OP with medicines :)

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Hi Christine, Eugene is about 3.5-4" long, plus his tail.

I've got to head to bed for the night, but I'll post again in the morning with an update on how Eugene is doing.

:)

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it is Sharon (shakaho) who is recommending the Maracyn Product based on her successful experiences using the product. if you wouldn't mind PM'ing her for her recommendation, that would be best. but please ensure that all treatments are documented here on the thread and not in PM's.. just so that we're all in the 'loop' with information and that there is no mistakes when directing the OP with medicines :)

I believe Sharon used Maracyn (erythromycin) as per the directions of the manufacturer in terms of dosage. :)

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it is Sharon (shakaho) who is recommending the Maracyn Product based on her successful experiences using the product. if you wouldn't mind PM'ing her for her recommendation, that would be best. but please ensure that all treatments are documented here on the thread and not in PM's.. just so that we're all in the 'loop' with information and that there is no mistakes when directing the OP with medicines :)

Hi Christine, Eugene is about 3.5-4" long, plus his tail.

I've got to head to bed for the night, but I'll post again in the morning with an update on how Eugene is doing.

:)

hello helen and courtney!

let's see what we can all do for eugene.

confirming:

1. i have courtneys address and can put meds in the mail to her from the US on monday 17 march at noon (PDT) latest.

2. will confirm recommendations for which meds are appropriate: so far the idea is MetroMeds and some maracyn product

3. will PM sharon (shakaho) to confirm which maracyn product she recommended and will put that in the package. i have maracyn 1 and 2 on hand here at the house.

4. will make sure that all is documented in the thread as well as PMs so that all at kokos can benefit :)

christine

it is Sharon (shakaho) who is recommending the Maracyn Product based on her successful experiences using the product. if you wouldn't mind PM'ing her for her recommendation, that would be best. but please ensure that all treatments are documented here on the thread and not in PM's.. just so that we're all in the 'loop' with information and that there is no mistakes when directing the OP with medicines :)

I believe Sharon used Maracyn (erythromycin) as per the directions of the manufacturer in terms of dosage. :)

noted, alex. will confirm via PM shortly.

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all good, folks. :heart

1. PM sent to sharon for confirmation of which maracyn :) -- we think 'plain' maracyn - active ingredients per packet: 200mg erythromycin activity

2. will make sure to post all details to thread for the benefit of the tribe :D

3. thanks to alex and helen for being such rockstars in general :P

4. nonstop good energy to courtney and eugene: the kokonuts are on it, and will do what we can for you. xo

please PM me, or post here if there is anything else i need to know or consider.

glad to be of service,

xristina ;)

Edited by melusine

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update:

- sharon has confirmed via PM that maracyn (200mg erythromycin) is the med she recommended.

- i will send a 24 pack of that med in the package to courtney.

- helen and alex, do you also recommend i send MMs as well? (it may be good for her to have them on hand, just in case??)

please advise as you are able.

thank you.

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MMs is always a good idea! :)

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MMs is always a good idea! :)

i will include both in the package, then. :)

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