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goldfish genes.


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My class is covering genes right now and that got me thinking. In fancy goldfish, what traits are dominant and what are recessive? I know that goldfish genes are weird but i still want to find out. especially with the double tail gene and the nacreous scales. Does anyone have any idea?

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I don't know the exact ratios, numbers, or results, but in general the features a common goldfish has are the dominant ones. Color can be more confusing, wild type silver metallic is the original carp coloring and that pops up a lot in breeding and I think fish would revert back to that if we didn't control their colors. Hope this helped a little, hopefully others have more information for you.

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My class is covering genes right now and that got me thinking. In fancy goldfish, what traits are dominant and what are recessive? I know that goldfish genes are weird but i still want to find out. especially with the double tail gene and the nacreous scales. Does anyone have any idea?

Here is an article on color mutants in goldfish

http://www.genetics.org/content/86/1/161.full.pdf

Here is another, more global look at genetic diversity

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0059571

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My class is covering genes right now and that got me thinking. In fancy goldfish, what traits are dominant and what are recessive? I know that goldfish genes are weird but i still want to find out. especially with the double tail gene and the nacreous scales. Does anyone have any idea?

Here is an article on color mutants in goldfish

http://www.genetics.org/content/86/1/161.full.pdf

Here is another, more global look at genetic diversity

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0059571

Awesome! thanks! :happydance

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I find it interesting that only 5 sequences of sampling and molecular methods were used for Chinese goldfish as many more were used for other breeds. Extremely complicated genetics.

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Here's a link to a thread I started.

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/115894-fry-colorsany-guesses/

I thought Sharon had some really helpful explanations without getting too deep. Maybe she will chime in here too. My interest was mostly because I have fry and am curious about how they will turn out. If I were still taking classes like you, I'd definitely want to know the nitty gritty…but in my "older" age I'm getting lazy when it comes to studying. :teehee

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I was debating breeding fry for a project. I figured it would be a good paper if i wrote a fry diary and tried predicting the appearance of the fry. :fishtank

Though from what i read it looks like ill have better luck breeding purple amano shrimp instead :(:teehee

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is it really that bad? :blink:

not bad! complex! there is a big difference! :D

complex means you can find out. or at least try, and thereby contribute to our body of knowledge.

it may take a while, but you *could* become our next authority on goldfish genetics!

at 18, you have the years ahead of you to do it!

i'm just sayin.

:P

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I was debating breeding fry for a project. I figured it would be a good paper if i wrote a fry diary and tried predicting the appearance of the fry. :fishtank

Though from what i read it looks like ill have better luck breeding purple amano shrimp instead :(:teehee

mendel had those pea plants, right?!

what i love is that mendel was a mathematician, not even a 'scientist'. you gotta love mendel…. :)

anyhow, though at the moment goldfish genetics might bring too many variables into play for your starter project -- maybe those shrimp offer you a good way to wrap your mind around the process itself -- setting up your experiment, collecting data, etc.

or: maybe someone here knows enough about genetics to help you frame an investigation that includes goldfish. ??

that's not me… (haha!) but you never know about this extraordinary kokos community… :heart

either way: please keep us posted! :D and good luck!

Edited by melusine
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I was debating breeding fry for a project. I figured it would be a good paper if i wrote a fry diary and tried predicting the appearance of the fry. :fishtank

Though from what i read it looks like ill have better luck breeding purple amano shrimp instead :(:teehee

It also takes a few months for fry to develop their coloration and define visible breed traits after they hatch, so the shrimp would probably be able to provide you with more data more quickly.

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I was debating breeding fry for a project. I figured it would be a good paper if i wrote a fry diary and tried predicting the appearance of the fry. :fishtank

Though from what i read it looks like ill have better luck breeding purple amano shrimp instead :(:teehee

mendel had those pea plants, right?!

what i love is that mendel was a mathematician, not even a 'scientist'. you gotta love mendel…. :)

I've taught too many genetics classes to let this pass. Mendel was most emphatically a scientist, not a mathematician. However, unlike the other people of his time doing what we now call biology, he had a basic knowledge of mathematics, including some statistics. That's why his peers rejected his work --What do numbers have to do with natural history???

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Wow. According to what I've been reading, definately not Medelian genetics. Thats a little bit disappointing, i wanted to breed out a midnight watonai one day. Seriously, the midnight coloring is so pretty, but I've never seen anything quite light it. But it seems like both the color and the double tail genes are really really recessive, (if thats even the right word) db0df93726b8e20ccf1548cbd530c21e.jpg

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The double tail isn't "really really recessive". You can transfer that trait to another line. Incubating at higher temperatures is likely to produce double tails from a single tail line. Notably in shubunkins. The double tail is affected by temperature as well as genes. You can get single tail black moors if you incubate the eggs at lower temperatures. Not all of them, mind you, but the temps do affect this and other traits. More males at higher temps.

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The double tail isn't "really really recessive". You can transfer that trait to another line. Incubating at higher temperatures is likely to produce double tails from a single tail line. Notably in shubunkins. The double tail is affected by temperature as well as genes. You can get single tail black moors if you incubate the eggs at lower temperatures. Not all of them, mind you, but the temps do affect this and other traits. More males at higher temps.

I had no idea about this. Temperature affects tails. Wow. How does that work?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I was debating breeding fry for a project. I figured it would be a good paper if i wrote a fry diary and tried predicting the appearance of the fry. :fishtank

Though from what i read it looks like ill have better luck breeding purple amano shrimp instead :(:teehee

mendel had those pea plants, right?!

what i love is that mendel was a mathematician, not even a 'scientist'. you gotta love mendel…. :)

I've taught too many genetics classes to let this pass. Mendel was most emphatically a scientist, not a mathematician. However, unlike the other people of his time doing what we now call biology, he had a basic knowledge of mathematics, including some statistics. That's why his peers rejected his work --What do numbers have to do with natural history???

hi shahako,

thanks for this, and i totally agree. i was trying to point to the fact that it was the 'math piece' in his work that lead it to be disregarded at first. just as you say -- nobody was looking at or for numbers.

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I wonder if the temperature affecting tails in goldfish, is anything like temperature affecting gender in snakes. Thats really cool! Oh and the link is taking me to a site where the book is 200 something dollars. It looks like a really interesting read, but i think I'm going to have to pass on that until i graduate college. Still, this is interesting.

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Sorry about the bad link. I downloaded my copy for free, and now I can't find where I got it. If you search the title and "free download" you will find some sources. Here's one possibility: http://www.2shared.com/document/-huzQHoA/goldfish_varieties_and_genetic.html

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The double tail isn't "really really recessive". You can transfer that trait to another line. Incubating at higher temperatures is likely to produce double tails from a single tail line. Notably in shubunkins. The double tail is affected by temperature as well as genes. You can get single tail black moors if you incubate the eggs at lower temperatures. Not all of them, mind you, but the temps do affect this and other traits. More males at higher temps.

I had no idea about this. Temperature affects tails. Wow. How does that work?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not exactly sure "how" it works. I think it tends to happen more with shubunkins due to the origin of the original cross (calico telescope x comet) telescopes pop up from time to time in calico spawns for the same reason but the incubation temp also affects the twin tail mutation. The lower the temp in a fantail spawn the higher the occurance of single tails.

I wonder if the temperature affecting tails in goldfish, is anything like temperature affecting gender in snakes. Thats really cool! Oh and the link is taking me to a site where the book is 200 something dollars. It looks like a really interesting read, but i think I'm going to have to pass on that until i graduate college. Still, this is interesting.

The sex ratios are affected by temperature as well, higher temps produce more males, most breeders incubate around 72 to get a more even percentage of males and females.

The temperature of incubation may affect more traits than these but those are the one I know of.

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