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Probiotics Revisited


LisaCGold

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Has anyone used this fish pre & probiotic: http://www.amazon.com/MitoFish-Pediococcus-Probiotics-Prebiotics-Capsules/dp/B003NGS3XY/ref=sr_1_4?s=pet-supplies&ie=UTF8&qid=1392762272&sr=1-4&keywords=fish+probiotics

According to the European Probiotic Association “the application of probiotics in aquaculture practices has already gained momentum, and nowadays, numerous microorganisms, both from indigenous and exogenous sources, are used as probiotics. The commonly used probiotics in fish culture practices belong to Saccharomyces, Clostridium, Bacillus, Enteroccus, Lactobacillus, Shewanella, Leuconostoc, Lactococcus, Carnobacterium, Aeromonas and several other genera.

In the European Union, there is still only one probiotic based on the lactic acid bacteria strain Pediococcus acidilactici that has been agreed as aquafeed supplement, after demonstration of beneficial effects on salmonids and shrimps. In some other countries, especially in Asia, many other probiotics are available for aquaculture.” (http://asso-epa.com/use-of-probiotics-in-aquaculture/) Copyright date on the website is 2012.

The product from amazon is pediococcus based. I was wondering if anyone has used it, and I would love to hear your thoughts and/or experience on probiotics for fish.

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I've ordered the product from amazon. I think it would be hard to report on the success of the product since I won't be doing any form of controlled study.

Do you or anyone know which strains of probiotics are in JumpStart?

The Cobalt goldfish pellets uses the bacillus species bacteria which was listed on the European Probiotics Association website. I just was not impressed with some of the ingredients in the Cobalt food (2nd ingredient is wheat flour and 3rd ingredient is soybean meal).

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Oh, I don't think we can report on success, but I was looking for equally important data, which is safety and side effects. :)

GC is notoriously secretive about ingredients. However, I will give Rick a call to see if he will tell me.

I am trying (soon) a different set of probiotics, but it will be a few months before I get going.

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Alex, you are right--I can report on safety and side effects of the MitoFish probiotics. Thanks ahead of time for trying to get information from Rick.

I've been feeding chopped up naturally fermented sauerkraut (unpasteurized) to my goldfish. I don't know the strain of probiotics in fermented sauerkraut. The natural fermentation process makes this food more easily digestible than cabbage in its raw form and this is what I eat, so I thought I would try to give it to my fish. My report is that Jack eats it (he will eat anything including java moss on the days that I fast them) and Whale did eat it in the beginning but now spits it right out. I've been feeding them this for two weeks now and it appears to be safe without any side effects (like floatiness or cloudy water). This is a short time period, but because Whale refuses to eat it now, I need to move on to another product.

Edit: One strain of probiotics in the sauerkraut is lactobacilli. An acquaintance of mine makes and markets the sauerkraut--Olykraut from Olympia, WA. She'd probably crack up if she heard I was feeding it to my fish.

Edited by LisaCGold
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I find Aeromonas an interesting genus to include.

Is this a strain of probiotic? From wiki: "Aeromonas is a gram-negative, facultative anaerobic rod that morphologically resembles members of the family Enterobacteriaceae. Fourteen species of Aeromonas have been described, most of which have been associated with human diseases."

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I find Aeromonas an interesting genus to include.

I haven't read much on Aeromonas being used for probiotic purposes because they are often associated with diseases both in humans and fish.

They are however often used as pathogens in studies evaluating the protective benefits of probiotics.

Which Aeromonas are you referring to, Sharon, and how is it being used?

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Aeromonas sp. are free-living bacteria, ubiquitous in water, which are opportunistic pathogens. That is, if they find themselves in a wound or in a gut, they may thrive on the easily-available food, multiply like crazy and produce an infection.

Here is a very thorough discussion of Aeromonas.

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Which Aeromonas are you referring to, Sharon, and how is it being used?

I have no idea. It's listed in the quote in the original post.

Sadz...I was hoping you'd have a better idea since you highlighted this genus.

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Here is one study on the use of Aeromonas media as a probiotic strain: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004484869800369X

If I read the abstract correctly, they were testing Aeromonas media as a probiotic strain in helping to reduce oyster larvae loss. It appears there was some success (if I have read that correctly--I'm a qualitative researcher and not a quantitative researcher).

Edited by LisaCGold
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One of the very practical things we have to consider is the feasibility of getting these strains.

I liked the sauerkraut as well as some others because it's commercially accessible. :)

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Which Aeromonas are you referring to, Sharon, and how is it being used?

I have no idea. It's listed in the quote in the original post.

Sadz...I was hoping you'd have a better idea since you highlighted this genus.

I highlighted it because it's feared as a pathogen. My guess is that, since Aeromonas is not very dangerous in the gut, it's being used to stimulate protective reactions in the host. Does that make sense?

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Certainly it makes sense, but I was wondering about more about the specifics, like strains actual species used. Some of that was already answered by Lisa's post up above. :)

Anyway, one of the things that I need to watch out for in my readings is to see what has been used long term as probiotics, and if that's safe. The studies I have read all have been short term feeds (2-3 months) followed by pathogen challenge, usually Aeromonas.

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I just got the MitoFish product which has the Pediococcus acidilactici strain. I've done a google scholar search and I have found some studies on this strain as a probiotic for tilapia, shrimp, and trout. Trial periods were short (as Alex has found), which makes sense because people don't keep these animals around as pets, they eventually eat them. These studies showed that this strain has either "some potential" or "seems to be effective" in inhibiting bacterial pathogens in the test aquatic animals. Also, the studies showed higher survival rates and an increase in total antioxidant status for those aquatic animals with the probiotic diet.

I even found a study on the use of this strain as a potential pathogen inhibitor on packaged all-beef wieners.

In any case, the flu is rampant in our home, and I hear that the gut may be a good entry point for the flu. I must go eat some more sauerkraut right now to line my gut with probiotics. :) After that, I'll make some food and put some of the MitoFish product in there. Or I could just feed my goldfish some all-beef wieners. :) Hopefully I will be able to report, sometime in the future, that there doesn't appear to be any bad side effects to this P. acidilactici strain for my goldfish.

Edited by LisaCGold
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I made some Repashy Soilent Green with the MitoFish. The directions on the MitoFish bottle say to dissolve one capsule in warm water and apply to food. I made the soilent green and cooled it down a bit before putting the dissolved MitoFish contents into it. I couldn't cool the soilent green to room temp because it would just gel up all the way, so I hope the probiotics weren't made ineffective because the soilent green was too warm.

Edited by LisaCGold
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Do you have a food thermometer, Lisa? We could check the temp of the SG to make sure it gets below the lethal temps for the probiotics before adding. :)

I do have one. What is the temp I should target?

What I've read is that probiotics can withstand some heat for a short amt of time (hours). The temperature varies (65-122F) and probably varies by strain. I did put the soilent green-probiotic mixture in the refrigerator right away.

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Wikipedia cited an article by Lin et al as saying that these bugs can actually withstand temps up to 65C, and while I can't get the full article, I have found an abstract that largely concurs about the heat resistance.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17477266

So, I think that as long as you wait until it cools down to about 125F, it's safe to add and mix. :)

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