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Fin rot and potential internal infection


Kat_M

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I have just came back home and discovered that there is something wrong with Lulu. She is a wriggly little fishy and she always comes to the surface when I am in close proximity to the tank. But tonight she did not come to greet me - just stayed at the bottom, up side down. She occasionally rests like this, especially when she is around Fifi. I got used to this sort of behaviour as she has had this tendency to get floaty since she hatched. She would swim alright most of the time but now and then (once a week?) she would start hanging up side down.

She was a little less responsive this morning but I have put it down to a dark room (I had to leave very early). And now her fins are in shreds, she is not interested in what is going on at all, and she seems to be permanently up side down. Even now, when I took her out for a photo, she was fine for a couple of minutes and then, a soon as she has calmed down, she flipped up side down again.She is almost 9 months old, weighs 10-11 grams.

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I will post a info table in a minute!

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  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) 5
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8 / 8.2
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6
  • Other Required Info:

  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API master
  • * Water temperature?20
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 150, over a year
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Internal Aquel and External All Ponds Solution
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? Daily, at least 25%,
  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday, 25%
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? variaty, baby shrimp, bloodworms, dafnia, repashy, spirulina, NLS Thera A+, fresh veggies
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?No
  • * Any medications added to the tank?No
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Prazi treatment September/October
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? fins in shred
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? very quiet, inactive, resting at the bottom up side down

Available medication: Medi Gold, Metro Meds, Metronidazole, Kanapex, ParaGuard, PolyGuard, Sulfathaziole, Myxazin (waterlife - fin rot, & ulcers), Sterazin (waterlife - gill & body flukes)

Edited by Kat_M
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i am wondering if she's weakened enough and got caught on the intake tube at all. the tail, although chewed up doesn't really show signs of fin rot and i wonder if this scenario is most likely the cause. how long has she been displaying signs of resting upside down? has she done this from the very beginning? or has it been progressively worse? and does she always choose the same spot to return to when she's resting?

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Hi Helen! I am astonished at the degree of damage that occurred during those 12 hours I have been away from home. I have two filters in one corner and she has been swimming around them without a problem. I do not have any objects that she could injured herself with (We only have sand and plants).

She never rests near the filters. She has her resting spot in the pants in the opposite end of the tank. And she does not like resting alone so she always snuggle up with someone else. She has had a tendency to float since she was a couple of weeks old fry. Back in the days she loved gulping air bubbles. Later on she stopped but that occasional floatiness remained. I contributed it to her particularly round body shape. she is bit slow (ok, she is the slowest among her tank mates) and she sometimes flips over.

She has been fine in the last couple of days. Yesterday she seemed to be a little bit more floaty and I caught her sleeping up side down next to Fifi. I was not particularly concerned as she sometimes rest this way. It has been only this morning when I noticed her staying on the bottom. But really, her fins has been fine. I have tried to feed her couple of hours ago but she seems to be completely disinterested. I have never had an issue with bullying except once, but she was not the target (the episode took place sometime in September last year). She is clearly not herself and the change in behaviour is very obvious. I have never seen her still. And this stillness worries me more than her fins. I do not think she can be constipated as she has been having spinach in the last two days.

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i am a little concerned for her roundness to be honest. i think as an immediate plan that she should be qt'd and epsom added to the qt. if you can get this happening for me, i will conclude my report to the mod team and see what the response is there for the best course of action.

epsom will help with any constipation, although somehow i doubt this would be the issue since you mention that you've been feeding her spinach. although it's not something i would use for constipation, i would prefer to feed peas. given that spinach is a green leaf, it should not present constipation issues just the same.

in any case, please set up qt and add epsom, the dose is 1/4 teaspoon for every 10 gallons of water. you can dose at 1/2 teaspoon for every 10 gallons for the first 3 days if you like, but minimum 1/4 teaspoon.

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Thank you, Helen! I will do it right away.

Actually, I have now realized one thing. My other girl, Chloe, got very round in the last two days or so. There has been a bit o chasing going on so I assumed that she has some eggs. I was actually going to ask if there is a way to help her release the eggs. Is there a possibility of Lulu having eggs as well? Or maybe they both having some sort of infection?

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Here is picture of her when she was 3 months old so you can compare her body shape then and now (she is the biggest one)

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sounds like it could be... and only since you mention chasing and that it be impossible that she got stuck to the intake tube. that tail damage is certainly not finrot. it does not have the cottony tips that finrot presents.

i am comfortable with advising you to treat both the same since they are presenting with the same issues.

has Lulu totally lost her appetite? how does she behave if you hand feed her directly to her mouth, does she try to refuse? does she suck the food in and then spit it out? any interest whatsoever? can you try to feed her something yummy and see what she does? bring the food straight to her mouth.

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Ok, she ate some. She would not go after the food so I had to hold in my hand and put the food very close to her mouth. She ate it, no spitting, I have just double checked the bottom of QT but there is nothing there.

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Lulu today...

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Here fins seem to be looking worse. Their tips are white-ish and her dorsal fin is thinner than yesterday - you can actually see it is deteriorating at the ends :(

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no need for apologies, hun :bighug continue on the MM's and i will get back to you about the quantity.

so they fraying, an you tell me as you can see it better, is it just clean at the ends? or does it have a fluffy cottony look to it?

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Alright, 5 a day it is then! She is going to be very pleased about this :feedme

​Yesterday the edges of her fins were clear but today they seem to be whitish and sort of fluffy?

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I am not really sure, Helen. She is currently in QT with epsom and she was not particularly happy about it. Do you think she would be ok going from epsom to regular one and then back to epson? or maybe we can try baths instead of dips?

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we can either try salt dips or we can try to add some melafix in the water for a few days and see if that clears anything up. let us know which you decide on. if you add melafix, see that you increase aeration and it is not uncommon that there is some foaming at the surface of the water whilst using melafix.

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Here are the instructions for the salt dips, Kat. I hope your little guys feel better soon. :hug

Salt dips bring out the drama llamas in fish, so don't get nervous. Just nudge them if they roll on their sides, and they should be able to right themselves again. If, at any time, you see that they are *unable* to right themselves, even with persistent nudging, you can remove them from the salt tank, and put them in the recovery tank. I find that the first dip is usually the most dramatic. If you find that you need to do it again, at a later date, they usually handle it much better.

SALT DIP
1. dissolve 30 teaspoons salt/gallon of water (30 grams/Liter, or 113.7g/gallon). This concentration is 3%. Let it match the temp/pH of the tank, and make sure to add de-chlorinator. You can also use tank water, but because you are adding a lot of salt per gallon, you will need to heat up the water. Hence, it's crucial that you cool it back down.
2. prepare a holding tank. This is a tank that is pH/temp matched with the main tank, and has been de-chlorinated. This can be a 5 gallon tub, with bubblestone, or something bigger.
3. make sure you have some sort of timer
4. gently lift the fish out of the tank, and place into temp/pH matched salt solution.
5. start timer.
6. if the fish stays continues to stay upright, or tilts over but can get back up, keep him/her in the salt solution for exactly 5 minutes.
7. remove fish from the salt, and place in holding tank. The reason why we do this is to: 1) give the fish a place to recover by him/herself, and 2)to let the fish purge out ammonia/wastes in a place that is not the main tank.
8. if the fish starts to lose balance and cannot get back before the minutes, remove him/her and place in holding tank, as described in #6.
9. after 1-2 hours, the fish can be moved back to the main tank. He/She might still be disoriented, but should be fine.

Edited by yafashelli
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