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Common fry killers


goldiegeek

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Hi Guys,

So I have terrible luck with fry. Each round is getting better, but I feel like my water is broken or something.lol The best plan seems to be to leave the eggs in the main tank for 4 days and then remove them during the last 24-48 hours.

I would love to know the top 3 fry killers (fungus, flukes...?)

I had a die off of about 50% of my fry. I noticed they had what looked like a white little ball on a string hanging from their vents. Then they start to swim a little sideways. The other 50% are fine and all of the affected fry have been removed. What are those things? I also had one with what looked like fungus around the gills. Is it fungus? Is there anything I can use to ward off fungus?

I am stumped as to why this keeps happening. The water is fresh and pristine. They get a 50% water change every evening. Food is never left in the tank for more than one hour. Round 2 of Prazi is going on right now. Ammonia and nitrite are and have always been zero. I am degassing their water. I am doing everything I can think of.

Any info/tips would be greatly appreciated. I tried to take pics, but my camera laughed at me. lol

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I've never had fry so the others will come with concrete advice. From reading the breeding threads, I think it is fairly normal to lose a large number of fry (and a good thing too, if you think about what to do with them later). You might not be doing anything wrong at all.

Since you have so many, you might try two different methods with two different batches. Hope you figure it out. I love looking at the fry threads!

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I have just lost many fry, and mine seemed to not respond well to large water changes. But I don't know why. :idont:

Really...hmmm. I'm sorry to hear that. I'm definitely with you. Did you have any of the weird parasitic looking stuff that I do? I'd love to know what the heck it is.

It seems like it would be hard to cut back on water changes for fear that the parameters would go wonky. Maybe I'll cut back to 25% and keep a close eye.

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I've never had fry so the others will come with concrete advice. From reading the breeding threads, I think it is fairly normal to lose a large number of fry (and a good thing too, if you think about what to do with them later). You might not be doing anything wrong at all.

Since you have so many, you might try two different methods with two different batches. Hope you figure it out. I love looking at the fry threads!

That's a good idea. I started out with 24 hatchers. By the end of week one, I was at about 12. Week two...I now have four with two looking like they are on their way out. Can you believe I have qt for fry? lol

I was really sad after the first three batches, but now it's all in the name of science and winning lol. I must figure this out! :wall

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Hi Guys,

So I have terrible luck with fry.

I had a die off of about 50% of my fry. I noticed they had what looked like a white little ball on a string hanging from their vents. Then they start to swim a little sideways....... around the gills. Is it fungus?

I am stumped as to why this keeps happening. The water is fresh and pristine. . Round 2 of Prazi is going on right now. Ammonia and nitrite are and have always been zero.

Any info/tips would be greatly appreciated. I tried to take pics, but....

H G, Sorry to hear about your fry problems.

1. If you want to get to bottom of problem quickly then is needed a few more bits of information so you can treat and prepare for next spawn.

2. Gills fluffed out, swollen , white puffy often mean that they have gill dease (infections) formed after gills are dammaged due to parasite attack leaving wounds in the gills . ( microscope is needed to confirm at about 40-80x)

3. white threads , usually can be seen on "chin" area are sometimes a worm which can destroy the fry.

4. food can also play a big part, too much such as boiled yolk of chicken, or to much green . not hatched artemia (brine shrimp eggs) have a hard shell and cause an intestinal block in the very small fry which kills.can be seen as small balls inside fish gut.

5.ph and cl are deadly deadly. I know you say you degas do you also pass it through active carbon?, good but I just mention personal experience.

6 No buts... get some pictures, and good ones.

7. info which is nice to know.

a. how you treated parents and fry with fluke meds. the protocol. parents have a history of parasite, or infections or are new additions?

b. how long has fry hatch bowl or tank been in operation. is it planted , filtered , still water ?

c. water treatment, and quality ..yes is pristine but you have something not right somewhere or overlooked.

. d. age of fry when die off began.

I know a lot of questions are asked but the answers can indicate cause.

Edited by mikroll
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Hi Guys,

So I have terrible luck with fry.

I had a die off of about 50% of my fry. I noticed they had what looked like a white little ball on a string hanging from their vents. Then they start to swim a little sideways....... around the gills. Is it fungus?

I am stumped as to why this keeps happening. The water is fresh and pristine. . Round 2 of Prazi is going on right now. Ammonia and nitrite are and have always been zero.

Any info/tips would be greatly appreciated. I tried to take pics, but....

H G, Sorry to hear about your fry problems.

1. If you want to get to bottom of problem quickly then is needed a few more bits of information so you can treat and prepare for next spawn.

2. Gills fluffed out, swollen , white puffy often mean that they have gill dease (infections) formed after gills are dammaged due to parasite attack leaving wounds in the gills . ( microscope is needed to confirm at about 40-80x)

3. white threads , usually can be seen on "chin" area are sometimes a worm which can destroy the fry.

4. food can also play a big part, too much such as boiled yolk of chicken, or to much green . not hatched artemia (brine shrimp eggs) have a hard shell and cause an intestinal block in the very small fry which kills.can be seen as small balls inside fish gut.

5.ph and cl are deadly deadly. I know you say you degas do you also pass it through active carbon?, good but I just mention personal experience.

6 No buts... get some pictures, and good ones.

7. info which is nice to know.

a. how you treated parents and fry with fluke meds. the protocol. parents have a history of parasite, or infections or are new additions?

b. how long has fry hatch bowl or tank been in operation. is it planted , filtered , still water ?

c. water treatment, and quality ..yes is pristine but you have something not right somewhere or overlooked.

. d. age of fry when die off began.

I know a lot of questions are asked but the answers can indicate cause.

It is a 5 gallon tank with a sponge filter only. I have had it going since before Christmas with multiple batches of fry. Scrubbed the tank out with warm water and salt between hatchings. I do not pass the degassed water through active carbon. How could I do this?

Definitely white threads on the chin of some that died. Any ideas on the stringy thing hanging from the vents?

They are eating Hikari First Bites three times/day. Food is left in fo 45 minutes to 1 hour. The tank is cleaned every evening doing 50% water changes.

The parent tank was actually treated for flukes in October/November (possible outbreak). Six rounds of Prazi, 5 day protocol. No new additions.

The fry started dying one at a time the first few days, then around day 5 I started noticing the strange stuff. One by one they went. They were born January 1. Right now I have gone from 24 to 4...and two have the mouth wormy things and have been moved to a separate container. One weird thing is that the fry with the mouth worms tend to die with their faces stuck to the floor of the tank and their vents pointing up. Really creepy. Then some start swimming sideways.

I really want to figure this out. Grrrr

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active carbon is used to remove by absorbing chlorine and other unwanted gas from the water, mine i run throught a big filter chamber when filling tank with new water during the water change. but if you use a bucket the AC bag can be just placed inside when the water is circulated throught with a small pump . easy

Definitely white threads on the chin of some that died. if it wiggles and squirms you could look to a 2.0mm size fluke of Dactylogyridea family or the same guy below, ergasilus.

Any ideas on the stringy thing hanging from the vents? without a clear picture it is difficult to say but there is an arthropod (crustatcean parasite) called ergasilus , there are thousands of types, but one has a long long body with eggsac balls. and can be seen with eye unaided.

those fry with this normaly do not recover , I cull them.

They are eating Hikari First Bites three times/day. Food is left in fo 45 minutes to 1 hour. The tank is cleaned every evening doing 50% water changes. sounds as if you have a good feed. Ihave never used HFG. but hatch live artemia( brine shrimp), also feed decaps artemia, fish egg material, a fine fine food dry type called Micron by Sera, and baby brother.

The parent tank was actually treated for flukes in October/November (possible outbreak). Six rounds of Prazi, 5 day protocol. No new additions. Well that should help with fluke population . I treat parents . and have prazi in with them from first day on.

The fry started dying one at a time the first few days, then around day 5 I started noticing the strange stuff. One by one they went. They were born January 1.

I also have some oranda fry hatched 25 Dec and 1 Jan. one other thing as I am feeding live artemia, the tank is keep a little salted in order to prolong the shrimp life and I feel that this also helps in the fry health.

you might want to consider trrying that.

50% should be ok . i am lazy and change water when needed or about 6-8 day for now 50-70% .

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active carbon is used to remove by absorbing chlorine and other unwanted gas from the water, mine i run throught a big filter chamber when filling tank with new water during the water change. but if you use a bucket the AC bag can be just placed inside when the water is circulated throught with a small pump . easy

Definitely white threads on the chin of some that died. if it wiggles and squirms you could look to a 2.0mm size fluke of Dactylogyridea family or the same guy below, ergasilus.

Any ideas on the stringy thing hanging from the vents? without a clear picture it is difficult to say but there is an arthropod (crustatcean parasite) called ergasilus , there are thousands of types, but one has a long long body with eggsac balls. and can be seen with eye unaided.

those fry with this normaly do not recover , I cull them.

They are eating Hikari First Bites three times/day. Food is left in fo 45 minutes to 1 hour. The tank is cleaned every evening doing 50% water changes. sounds as if you have a good feed. Ihave never used HFG. but hatch live artemia( brine shrimp), also feed decaps artemia, fish egg material, a fine fine food dry type called Micron by Sera, and baby brother.

The parent tank was actually treated for flukes in October/November (possible outbreak). Six rounds of Prazi, 5 day protocol. No new additions. Well that should help with fluke population . I treat parents . and have prazi in with them from first day on.

The fry started dying one at a time the first few days, then around day 5 I started noticing the strange stuff. One by one they went. They were born January 1.

I also have some oranda fry hatched 25 Dec and 1 Jan. one other thing as I am feeding live artemia, the tank is keep a little salted in order to prolong the shrimp life and I feel that this also helps in the fry health.

you might want to consider trrying that.

50% should be ok . i am lazy and change water when needed or about 6-8 day for now 50-70% .

Thank you so much! The vent parasite sounds exactly as you describe. The other must be gill flukes. I'm going to do as you do and start the Prazi earlier and salt as well. What is the concentration of salt you are dosing?

How do these parasites get into the water? I use 100% fresh water when I move the eggs. No water from the tank at all. With earlier batches, I removed the eggs from the tank right away. Most survived the Methylene Blue, but then soon after they would all fungus over. Even with clean water and the prompt removal of any bad eggs, not much luck.

I was just looking up some common parasites and came across Detritus worms. Very common and are harmful to eggs and fry.

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I'm going to do as you do and start the Prazi earlier and salt as well. What is the concentration of salt you are dosing?

Do not know the concentration but begins when they start to eat live baby brine shrimp age 5 day and up . Ok like this I hatch the shrimp in a flat pan, no air no fancy stuff and collect them under bright light with a syringe 10ml. and squirt entire load salt water and all into fry tank. this operation is repeater 20 time or more a day so 200ml of 3.5% salt water is added daily until I sample,yes i taste their water to test salt , and then spitting and swearing that i will get a salt meter, I conduct a water change. actually this is not my idea but a good friend ,gunther ritter. How is you german? well you can go to his little site at shubunkin.de and see pictures how he builds simple filters and raise super fantail. so a big pinch of salt daily should do. iam using a 50 liter now at about 35 liter( like about 10 gal) of water volume

How do these parasites get into the water? I use 100% fresh water when I move the eggs. Yes one of the great mystery of life? maybe they were there first?

. With earlier batches, I removed the eggs from the tank right away. Most survived the Methylene Blue, but then soon after they would all fungus over. fungus is normal on not fertile eggs and should not be a problem unlees you have very high density ,thousands of eggs. I do not use MB .

I was just looking up some common parasites and came across Detritus worms. Very common and are harmful to eggs and fry. Yes in large amounts perhaps but

detritus worms are planaira which are harmless I think as the ones we have in aquariums have no hooks with which to puncture and grab on to our fish gills.

what is water temperature? mine is now at 20° C(70F) but I vary it from 19 to 23 (76).

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I'm going to do as you do and start the Prazi earlier and salt as well. What is the concentration of salt you are dosing?

Do not know the concentration but begins when they start to eat live baby brine shrimp age 5 day and up . Ok like this I hatch the shrimp in a flat pan, no air no fancy stuff and collect them under bright light with a syringe 10ml. and squirt entire load salt water and all into fry tank. this operation is repeater 20 time or more a day so 200ml of 3.5% salt water is added daily until I sample,yes i taste their water to test salt , and then spitting and swearing that i will get a salt meter, I conduct a water change. actually this is not my idea but a good friend ,gunther ritter. How is you german? well you can go to his little site at shubunkin.de and see pictures how he builds simple filters and raise super fantail. so a big pinch of salt daily should do. iam using a 50 liter now at about 35 liter( like about 10 gal) of water volume

How do these parasites get into the water? I use 100% fresh water when I move the eggs. Yes one of the great mystery of life? maybe they were there first?

. With earlier batches, I removed the eggs from the tank right away. Most survived the Methylene Blue, but then soon after they would all fungus over. fungus is normal on not fertile eggs and should not be a problem unlees you have very high density ,thousands of eggs. I do not use MB .

I was just looking up some common parasites and came across Detritus worms. Very common and are harmful to eggs and fry. Yes in large amounts perhaps but

detritus worms are planaira which are harmless I think as the ones we have in aquariums have no hooks with which to puncture and grab on to our fish gills.

what is water temperature? mine is now at 20° C(70F) but I vary it from 19 to 23 (76).

I'm going to do as you do and start the Prazi earlier and salt as well. What is the concentration of salt you are dosing?

Do not know the concentration but begins when they start to eat live baby brine shrimp age 5 day and up . Ok like this I hatch the shrimp in a flat pan, no air no fancy stuff and collect them under bright light with a syringe 10ml. and squirt entire load salt water and all into fry tank. this operation is repeater 20 time or more a day so 200ml of 3.5% salt water is added daily until I sample,yes i taste their water to test salt , and then spitting and swearing that i will get a salt meter, I conduct a water change. actually this is not my idea but a good friend ,gunther ritter. How is you german? well you can go to his little site at shubunkin.de and see pictures how he builds simple filters and raise super fantail. so a big pinch of salt daily should do. iam using a 50 liter now at about 35 liter( like about 10 gal) of water volume

How do these parasites get into the water? I use 100% fresh water when I move the eggs. Yes one of the great mystery of life? maybe they were there first?

. With earlier batches, I removed the eggs from the tank right away. Most survived the Methylene Blue, but then soon after they would all fungus over. fungus is normal on not fertile eggs and should not be a problem unlees you have very high density ,thousands of eggs. I do not use MB .

I was just looking up some common parasites and came across Detritus worms. Very common and are harmful to eggs and fry. Yes in large amounts perhaps but

detritus worms are planaira which are harmless I think as the ones we have in aquariums have no hooks with which to puncture and grab on to our fish gills.

what is water temperature? mine is now at 20° C(70F) but I vary it from 19 to 23 (76).

Losing so many eggs is strange, though. They aren't blue (dead) after the mb, but in the couple of days that follow, they all die off. I have way more success using the mb than not.

Good to know it's not a Detritus issue, because there's not a whole heck of a lot I could do.

My temps are at 72.5 degrees, very steady.

I got a couple of semi-decent photos of the affected fish. Just waiting for my phone to charge enough to grab them:) Hoping it doesn't turn out to be anything crazy...

Your input is invaluable, thanks so much.

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Okay, here is my sideways swimmer:

IMG_2354_zps21185028.jpg

IMG_2343_zpsd82b801d.jpg

Here is a dead fry with his face stuck to the floor. You can see (hopefully) the junk hanging from his chin. Hopefully you can see it in one of these:

IMG_2362_zpse3218ec0.jpg

IMG_2364_zps807e4a2d.jpg

IMG_2366_zpsd490fffd.jpg

Here is a fry in the qt with the dead one (just found him). He has nothing hanging off of him.

IMG_2376_zpsfa7286e7.jpg

Here is one of the fry with the vent thing. Just found him too, so I am now at 3 (I guess one was hiding). I fed them to try to entice them to the center front of the tank. You can see a white thing with a little black dot, it looks like. You can't see the black dot with your bare eyes. Sorry about the food lol. Hope you can see it:

IMG_2320_zps3e0d7d67.jpg

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the pictures are helpful.

I see how the fuzz white is around the gills area. but this is always relates to same old thing first a parsite attack with the follow on infections.so if you do not confirm with a microscope inspection then just assume and prepare for next spawn.

those fish with with white bloated bellys, is their food also white?

I see the white thing with black dot . does it move or the dot move?

I do not know what that is. not quite like any that i have seen. would be nice to see it under microscope.

Perhaps others may see it and be able to provide a positive ID. sorry but am not a vet or biologist and have only personal experience to draw on.

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Their food is a very light beige. I think the lamp above the tank was shining down on that spot too.

The vent worm thing doesn't really move. It just glides around behind them. The black thing is not visible to the naked eye, so I'm not sure if it moves.

Your explanantion of the fuzzy gill stuff makes perfect sense. I'm hoping someone recognizes the vent guy. That seems to be my biggest problem.

Putting my hand in the tank is really grossing me out now lol. I'm putting on a surgical glove. Are these guys in tap water? Am I drinking them? EW! lol

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I wasn't planning on spawning my fish but have kept some (as you know :P)

I have around 6 batches of spawns from 2 different mom fish. My oldest (5) are 2 months next week :)

I don't keep my water pristine, I do 2xweekly changes in a sanded, planted tank and I've only lost 2 fry (other than the ones with bent backs and deformities), they both died from the same thing, the gill fuzz. I'm guessing they just got an infection of some sort and they couldn't heal from it. It's like people some just dont have the immune system they need to recover. That's just my opinion based on my experience so far, as long as there isn't some outbreak and they are ALL dying off at once, I wouldn't be overly concerned. Some major breeders cull down till they only have about 20 left, even from hand spawning which can produce buttloads of fry! Sometimes over intervention can cause problems from what I've seen.

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I wasn't planning on spawning my fish but have kept some (as you know :P)

I have around 6 batches of spawns from 2 different mom fish. My oldest (5) are 2 months next week :)

I don't keep my water pristine, I do 2xweekly changes in a sanded, planted tank and I've only lost 2 fry (other than the ones with bent backs and deformities), they both died from the same thing, the gill fuzz. I'm guessing they just got an infection of some sort and they couldn't heal from it. It's like people some just dont have the immune system they need to recover. That's just my opinion based on my experience so far, as long as there isn't some outbreak and they are ALL dying off at once, I wouldn't be overly concerned. Some major breeders cull down till they only have about 20 left, even from hand spawning which can produce buttloads of fry! Sometimes over intervention can cause problems from what I've seen.

I can't believe they are two months old now! Where are those ics Girl? lol

I am so happy you've been so successful. Especially with the baby at home. It's so much work. How old are your smallest fry now?

One thing I am going to do is scale back on the water changes. I just can't get over the fact that there are parasites in the tap water...ugh. I'm glad I'm no longer sad about the die offs. That was brutal lol. Chococat was chasing Butter again this morning. I'm afraid to look:)

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So I still have four fry. The 2 in qt are on their way out, I just can't bring myself to cull them. The other two are big and looking great so far. No vent worms or fungus around the mouth/gills:) Fingers crossed. Hopefully I'm not jinxing myself.

Mikroll, the information you provided was excellent. Between that and the information you sent me previously, my confidence is definitely on the rebound:) Thanks!

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