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Finrot or flukes?


Sennenko

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· Test Results for the Following:

o * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0ppm

o * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0ppm

o * Nitrate level(Tank) 0 ppm

o * Ammonia Level(Tap) .25ppm

o * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0ppm

o * Nitrate level(Tap) 0ppm

o

o * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 6.6 pH (will buffer with some baking soda asap, now)

o * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 6.0 pH

o

o Other Required Info:

§ * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API MASTER KIT (drops)

§ * Water temperature? 75°F

§ * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 20 gal, about 9 months, cycle has been established.

§ * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqueon 20 and AquaClear 50

§ * How often do you change the water and how much? 30% weekly

· * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday, 50%

· * How many fish in the tank and their size? 1, about 5"

· * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Amquel+, and I have buffer my tap with small amounts of baking soda, and also have crushed coral that needs replacing.

· * What do you feed your fish and how often? Hikari pellets, peas

· * Any new fish added to the tank? no

· * Any medications added to the tank? no

· * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Treated for suspected flukes in Sept. with prazipro and salt dips, for about 14 days. conditions resolved

· * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? See below explaination – red streaks, fraying

· * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? no

· See below for answers to the rest of the questions.

About 4-5 days ago I noticed Nemo's lower bottom left fin had fraying/holes/red splotches and red streaks from the fin up to the body. :( This is only affecting ONE of his fins - all others appear to be healthy...!

This was partly due to the fact that I had been away for over a week and my caretaker only put in a 1/2 capful of Amquel+ every few days as instructed by me, and fed small amounts of Hikari Pellets.

I hadn't tested the water before I left, which I should have, but I had changed 30% of it on routine.

When I noticed the problem I tested the water and ammonia was under 1ppm, nitrites 0ppm, but nitrate was in the 40/50ppm range. From then until now I did two 50% water changes which has brought the nitrate down to 0ppm now.

I have on hand: metro-meds food, kanaplax powder, repashy supergreen gel food, prazipro, salt, and Amquel+.

What schedule/dosage would you recommend for treatment?

Nemo's a happy bugger, he has plenty of energy and isn't bottom sitting and is eating fine, just being all-over lovely. Except with owies! :(

Pics (sorry some are blurry, he moves so fast!)

IMG_1659.jpg

IMG_1631.jpg

IMG_1668.jpg

You can see the hole in this one :(

IMG_1666.jpg

Pretty fishie :)

Edited by Sennenko
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I honeslty wouldn't be surprised if the lower ph was somehow attributing to these issues, but I don't have issues with my ph so I can only speculate. Honestly it never hurts to do another round or two of prazi pro, I treat my gang every few months. I know holes and tears in the fins that do not heal quickly or reappear in the same spot are often a sign of fin flukes. In my experience some fish seem to be more sensitive to them than others. It definitely does not look like finrot to me. I'd wait for a mod though because they really know best, not me :)

Edited by Pearlscaleperfect
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I have a quick question and I hope it doesn't sound mean :hug.

I find it kind of hard to have zero nitrates in your tank with only 30% WC weekly. How are you testing them? This is how it should be done:

1. Fill test tube to the 5ml line

2. Add ten drops if solution 1

3. Cap test tube and invert several times

4. Shake solution 2 vigerously for at least 30 seconds (I prefer 45)

5. Add ten drops of solution 2 to the same tube

6. Shake vigerously for 1 minute

7. Wait 5 minutes and record results

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I was wondering the same thing about your nitrates, but just noticed it was originally at 40-50 ppm before you did your 2 water changes.

I would also do larger water changes regularly. Goldies really need them, especially a fairly large fish like yours and if your nitrates are that high with smaller water changes. I do 60% weekly.

I hope your fish gets better soon - he is really beautiful! What a gorgeous tail! :hug

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

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:yikes

What has happened to all the pics? They've disappeared! :rofl

Without seeing the pics, but seeing some of the water parameters, my first guess is that this is more of a water quality issue than one of infection causing fin rot. Hopefully the pics will reappear soon. Darn that photobucket! :rofl

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Tail is improving.... Looks like the damaged part just came right off at some point...! :o tank is salted to 1%. How long should I keep the salt in? So glad I didn't have to use meds!

I mixed up some repashy for the first time (without any meds of course!) and he seemed to love it :)

Edited by Sennenko
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Sennenko, your fish is gorgeous! I might suggest that the damage might also have a relationship to the Amquel (over)dosing. This is just a theory I have been mulling over about my own fish.

Our tanks have some things in common, low ph, single fish. My tank is 144 liters. Before the summer, I got super busy for a few weeks and it creeped up to changing water about every 10 days. I was dumping a little Prime in around day 6 and then waiting some days to change the water. This went on for nearly 2 months. Then I noticed some damage to his fins.

When I went back to my good habits, the damage vanished (took about 2 weeks). On one hand, it could have been the result of deteriorating water conditions but it hadn´t happened when I let the tank go 10 days without the Prime (it is, after all, a big tank for a single fish). The fins only started looking bad when I was Prime dosing (and, frankly, probably too much Prime).

Again, no evidence and in many cases the water treatment will prevent damage. I feel that in our case, the tank didn't need the Prime and the excess Prime was not good for the fish.

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Tail is improving.... Looks like the damaged part just came right off at some point...! :o tank is salted to 1%. How long should I keep the salt in? So glad I didn't have to use meds!

I mixed up some repashy for the first time (without any meds of course!) and he seemed to love it :)

Hello,

I'm glad to hear of improvements! I'd like for you to maintain the salt at 0.1% for about 2 weeks total, please. :)

Sennenko, your fish is gorgeous! I might suggest that the damage might also have a relationship to the Amquel (over)dosing. This is just a theory I have been mulling over about my own fish.

Our tanks have some things in common, low ph, single fish. My tank is 144 liters. Before the summer, I got super busy for a few weeks and it creeped up to changing water about every 10 days. I was dumping a little Prime in around day 6 and then waiting some days to change the water. This went on for nearly 2 months. Then I noticed some damage to his fins.

When I went back to my good habits, the damage vanished (took about 2 weeks). On one hand, it could have been the result of deteriorating water conditions but it hadn´t happened when I let the tank go 10 days without the Prime (it is, after all, a big tank for a single fish). The fins only started looking bad when I was Prime dosing (and, frankly, probably too much Prime).

Again, no evidence and in many cases the water treatment will prevent damage. I feel that in our case, the tank didn't need the Prime and the excess Prime was not good for the fish.

Hi Susanne,

This is an intriguing idea, but I think it's not really because of Prime (Amquel is another matter, more below). Prime is only there for 24 hours max, and evaporates after that. So, when you add Prime every 5 days (regardless of water change or not), that's basically what I do, because I change the water every 5 days max. I have not had any fin issues with any of my fish. I think that the issues with Newton may come directly from water quality issues when the water is left for longer than a week. You and I recently commented in a different thread that our fish seem to disagree with water that hasn't been changed in over a week and show signs of this. Finally, I don't think it's Prime because for people who have to cycle with fish or QT'ing with an uncycled tank, we have them use Prime daily to prevent ammonia and nitrite toxicities at 2x dosages, and this has not resulted in fin issues. I've had personal experience with this as well, since I only QT fish in uncycled tanks. :)

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Understand, Alex, and there could have been many reasons for the fin issues. I was overdosing the Prime and in no way using it as directed (sloppy with the cap, have an odd sized tank, am neurotic) but there was a difference between the reaction to leaving the water and to leaving the water and adding Prime (again, too much). The experienced convinced me to just suck up and do the 6 days water changes.

Of course, I use Prime every single water change without negative effect. I just wondered if there wasn´t some side ingredient that, in larger amounts, didn't agree with him.

Edited by motherredcap
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Just read tons of stuff about the mystery of Prime that suggested that the mechanism (unrevealed) in Prime that converts ammonia to harmless lowers ph ever so slightly. Could it be that in cases of low/borderline ph like Senn and I have, higher doses of Amquel and Prime lowers the ph below a tolerable level?

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Just read tons of stuff about the mystery of Prime that suggested that the mechanism (unrevealed) in Prime that converts ammonia to harmless lowers ph ever so slightly. Could it be that in cases of low/borderline ph like Senn and I have, higher doses of Amquel and Prime lowers the ph below a tolerable level?

Could you please show me where you read the Prime lowers pH? Both Prime and Amquel are purported not to lower pH, and while I have not read anything on Prime, there certainly have been people reporting that Amquel crashed their tank pH.

But this is something easy to check in your system though. :)

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Just read tons of stuff about the mystery of Prime that suggested that the mechanism (unrevealed) in Prime that converts ammonia to harmless lowers ph ever so slightly. Could it be that in cases of low/borderline ph like Senn and I have, higher doses of Amquel and Prime lowers the ph below a tolerable level?

Could you please show me where you read the Prime lowers pH? Both Prime and Amquel are purported not to lower pH, and while I have not read anything on Prime, there certainly have been people reporting that Amquel crashed their tank pH.

But this is something easy to check in your system though. :)

Kordon actually acknowledges that amquel (the original) may lower ph if used in a water that already has low buffering capacity. Amquel plus was supposed to alleviate this issue with the original.

I have never seen any evidence or reports of prime lowering ph. The primary issues I have seen with dropping ph in relation to water conditioner is with the original amquel, which is a legitimate concern depending on what your tap params are ;)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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No reputable source, Alex and it may well be a rumor based upon the earlier, documented, problems with the formula in Amquel. If you Google, you will see it discussed on other fish forums (hence no links here).

Sennenko, uses Amquel and has low ph and this connection might want to be investigated in relation to his problems if he is not using Plus.

Just out of curiousity, does anyone know what is actually in Prime?

Again, I use Prime and would never be without it but am a bit interested in exactly how it works.

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Sennenko uses Amquel Plus, although unfortunately the pH problem still stuck with the Amquel plus. Several Koko's members reported this, as well as several angry Amazon customers. I actually called Kordon to report this to them. They never returned my call. :o

As for the actual chemistry of it, I would not even begin to be able to tell you. BUT, from the MSDS, we know that Prime contains a mixture of sulfite salts (you can tell by smelling Prime lol), and so the ultimate end product is probably ammonium sulfite. In other words, Prime is likely to render ammonia is the water safe by converting it (temporarily) to ammonium. :)

The reaction is a reduction, which results in a net loss of oxygen. This is why it's really important not to overdose, and to use less when the water is warm.

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