2nd Round of Prazi Concern

[LisaCGold 1,691]

• Test Results for the Following:
• Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
• Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
• Nitrate level(Tank) 0
• Ammonia Level(Tap) 0
• Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
• Nitrate level(Tap) 0
• Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.4
• Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.4
• Other Required Info:
• Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
• Water temperature? 70-72F
• Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 29 gallons for three weeks
• What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? AquaClear 50 (I’m getting an additional one tomorrow)
• How often do you change the water and how much? Every two days, 70-80%
• How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today, 80%
• How many fish in the tank and their size? 2, bodies are 2”
• What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime, salt
• What do you feed your fish and how often? JumpStart and sometimes peas, prior to today 14 days of MediGold, prior to that gel food and Hikari Lionhead and peas and seaweed; usually just once a day (especially while under treatment)
• Any new fish added to the tank? Just these two since the beginning
• Any medications added to the tank? Kanaplex in the past, Aqua Prazi lately
• List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Started on 11/16 FIRST ROUND OF PRAZI: ¾ tsp of prazi, 2% salt, no salt dip. 11/18: 70% water change, first salt dip, ½ tsp of prazi. 11/20: did 80% water change, ¾ tsp prazi, 2% salt, salt dip. 11/22: 80% water change, 2% salt, NO PRAZI. 11/26 SECOND ROUND OF PRAZI: 80% water change, 2% salt, ½ tsp prazi, NO salt dip. Prime every single day because tank is cycling. The first round of prazi was 6 days instead of 4 (which I originally thought), so basically 6 days on prazi and 4 days off.
• Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Not right now. When I originally started, fins were clamped.
• Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Originally were bottom sitting. Towards the end of the first round, they perked up quite a bit.

I started second round of prazi earlier today. For the last several days Jack and Carmen have been positively giddy. Since I started this second round, they are moving slower and bottom sitting more. Their fins are not clamp though. When I sit in front of the tank, they respond to me by coming over and swimming all around, whereas early in the first round they would just bottom sit. When I leave, they go back to bottom sitting or moving very slowly around the tank. Should I be concerned?

[LisaCGold 1,691]

Oops, I meant .2% salt.

[dnalex 13,633]

If you could get a video of them, that would be fantastic!

No, there is no particular reason to be concerned. It seems like the prazi is helping them to get rid of flukes, and the 2nd round is better than the first. I would like for you to see if you can locate either kanaplex (kanamycin powder) or if not Maracyn (erythromycin powder) to have on hand, just in case they develop a secondary bacterial infection. This is unlikely, but possible.

Do you have Metro-Meds and/or Medi-Gold? These are good to have on hand in general.

[LisaCGold 1,691]

If you could get a video of them, that would be fantastic!

No, there is no particular reason to be concerned. It seems like the prazi is helping them to get rid of flukes, and the 2nd round is better than the first. I would like for you to see if you can locate either kanaplex (kanamycin powder) or if not Maracyn (erythromycin powder) to have on hand, just in case they develop a secondary bacterial infection. This is unlikely, but possible.

Do you have Metro-Meds and/or Medi-Gold? These are good to have on hand in general.

I'll try to get video tomorrow.

I have kanaplex on hand, as well as medi-gold. Yesterday they finished 14 days of medi-gold (may have been 12 days because I forgot to write down what day I started). I decided to do medi-gold based on what I read on the Internet. Primarily because their poops were white and stringy with no sufficient substance. Oh, I forgot to mention that on the form. Maybe too much? Started jumpstart (from goldfishconnection) today to re-populate gut bacteria. I plan to do that for 14 days.

Thanks, Alex!

[LisaCGold 1,691]

Here is a video:

No bottom sitting there. I'll let you know if later today they slow down.

After this second round, should I continue the salt solution of .2%?

[LisaCGold 1,691]

They are moving slower and bottom sitting a little bit more than they were during that active time between rounds (without prazi). Looks like parasite die-off is slowing them down a bit.

Because my tank has not cycled, I've been changing water (70-80%) every two days. In the first round of prazi, when I did this I would re-dose with prazi. I plan to do a water change tomorrow (which would be in the middle of the second round of prazi). I assume I should re-dose with prazi when I do this, correct? What about salt? Continue with .2%?

[fantailfan1 26,742]

You want Prazi in the tank for four days so if you'll be on days 3-4, then yes redose the Prazi and the salt.

[LisaCGold 1,691]

To Lisa From Lisa: Thank you, Lisa!

[dnalex 13,633]

To Lisa, From Lisa

I think that could be a new blockbuster movie!

Keep us updated. I will be following the thread closely!

[fantailfan1 26,742]

I'd like to be played by Halle Berry.

[LisaCGold 1,691]

Hey you Goldfish and movie lovers,

Just an update and some questions:

I wasn't able to do a water change yesterday until 11pm. I did, though, do prime and some baking soda in the morning to get more optimal water parameters. By the time I got around to doing the water change, they were not happy campers. While it was their usual sleep time, they weren't very responsive (they just sat at the bottom). Their fins were not clamped though. I got so concerned that I did the water change, put in salt (2%), but did not re-dose with prazi.

I woke up this morning and they were very happy campers (chasing each other around the tank and playing). I fed them, and then eventually re-dosed with prazi. Tomorrow through Tuesday is time without prazi, just water changes, prime and salt. Then the third round of prazi starts on Wednesday.

I assume later today they will slow down due to being prazi'd. I just get concerned when they get so slow and mostly bottom sit during a prazi treatment. Is this normal? Do other people experience this with their fish? Should I expect this with the third round of prazi?

Edited November 29, 2013 by LisaCGold

[fantailfan1 26,742]

It's not abnormal. Especially the first couple of rounds. It should lessen a bit with each round. Watch them closely and continue to report any abnormal behavior. They can develop secondary bacterial infections in which case it's good to have either MetroMeds or water borne metronidazole powder on hand.

[LisaCGold 1,691]

It's not abnormal. Especially the first couple of rounds. It should lessen a bit with each round. Watch them closely and continue to report any abnormal behavior. They can develop secondary bacterial infections in which case it's good to have either MetroMeds or water borne metronidazole powder on hand.

MetroMeds and metronidazole are on their way (ordered a couple of days ago). I have Kanaplex on hand. They've been on MediGold for 14 days which ended 11/26.

Thank you!

[fantailfan1 26,742]

Ok so you are set should any further treatment be necessary.

Keep us posted.

[LisaCGold 1,691]

Here is a video of Jack and Carmen a couple of days after the 2nd round of prazi:

After the completion of the 1st round of prazi, they were much more energetic that what I'm witnessing now. It's been a couple of days since prazi. Currently just using .2% salt solution, 80% water changes every other day, and prime. 3rd round starts on Wednesday.

It is a bit discouraging to see them so low key after the 2nd round. Thoughts?

Water parameters: ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, ph 7.8 (80% water change today)

Edited December 3, 2013 by LisaCGold

[LisaCGold 1,691]

One more thing: I added crushed coral on Friday. It is doing a bang up job with the ph. Could this be causing any problems though?

[dnalex 13,633]

Lisa,

Do you have Metro-Meds or Medi-Gold? Are they both eating? I think they may have developed a secondary infection, so I would like to intervene ASAP. If you don't have either of these, we will go with a broad spectrum waterborne antibiotic that you could find locally.

Hang in there.

[LisaCGold 1,691]

Lisa,

Do you have Metro-Meds or Medi-Gold? Are they both eating? I think they may have developed a secondary infection, so I would like to intervene ASAP. If you don't have either of these, we will go with a broad spectrum waterborne antibiotic that you could find locally.

Hang in there.

I have MG. They just finished a 14 day round of MG last Tuesday. MM should arrive any day now. Also I have both powdered metro and Kanaplex. They are eating. Which is best to start? The metro powder now and then MM when it arrives?

[dnalex 13,633]

Oooooooh, thank you for correcting me.

It may be that they are just being hit by the MGs. I would like to give them a couple of days to see if things change, instead of jumping into anything just yet. Will you update at least daily for me, and if there is ever a time when they are not interested in food, alert me right away, please.

But for now, let's us just wait for a day or two.

[LisaCGold 1,691]

Oooooooh, thank you for correcting me.

It may be that they are just being hit by the MGs. I would like to give them a couple of days to see if things change, instead of jumping into anything just yet. Will you update at least daily for me, and if there is ever a time when they are not interested in food, alert me right away, please.

But for now, let's us just wait for a day or two.

But the MG finished last Tuesday (before thanksgiving). Why are they now being impacted? Shouldn't the impact be more energy instead of less? This goldfish doctoring is a mystery to me. I'm glad you and other mods are here to help! BTW, they are bring fed jumpstart and peas.

[dnalex 13,633]

Hi Lisa,

My thought is that the MGs might have been too strong for them, so they are feeling a bit off. You are right though that they should have recovered by now.

I don't think it's a 2ndary bacterial infection, because the effects of the MGs stay in the system for a while, even after you've stopped the meds.

Let's stop the Jumpstart, and give them some other foods.

[LisaCGold 1,691]

Hi Lisa,My thought is that the MGs might have been too strong for them, so they are feeling a bit off. You are right though that they should have recovered by now. I don't think it's a 2ndary bacterial infection, because the effects of the MGs stay in the system for a while, even after you've stopped the meds. Let's stop the Jumpstart, and give them some other foods.

I have NLS Ther A. I can start that.

The third round of praziquantel starts on Wednesday. If they don't improve a bit before then, should I hold off a day or two?

[dnalex 13,633]

Yes, let's hold off on the prazi for a few days at least.

NLS is perfect.

[LisaCGold 1,691]

Yes, let's hold off on the prazi for a few days at least. NLS is perfect.

Great, I'll keep you posted!

[LisaCGold 1,691]

Update on Jack and Carmen today:

I fed them NLS Thera A, added prime (two capfuls to 29 gallon tank), tested water later in the day and all parameters look good (ammonia/nitrite/nitrate all zero.

The first video is of Jack and Carmen in the morning just after feeding. They are happy campers.

The second video is about 2:30pm and they are not so happy campers--mostly bottom sitting or moving very slow or nervous movements, fins are looking good though, no unusual body markings. Just very slow moving and/or lots of bottom sitting. (This is when I did the water testing.)

They starting slowing down about an hour after feeding (just feeding them once in the morning). The roof installation is happening so the house is shaking a bit. This is a bit stressful for them, but I think they just don't feel good and the roof install just exacerbates the situation. I turn off lights and put a towel over them to help reduce stress.

I'm using a pond pump and hose to pump water from bucket into tank (once water has been Prime'd). This is new since Friday, so is crushed coral. Could any of that be affecting the water in some way that doesn't show up in the usual testing? This slowing down did not happen after the first round or Prazi.

Just tested kh, gh, and ph: kh is 4, gh is 71.6ppm, ph is 7.6-7.8. Are they kh and gh okay?

Suggestions?

Ugh! Sometimes being a Goldfish parent is hard and painful!

Edited December 4, 2013 by LisaCGold