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goldiegeek

When it rains, it pours-what the heck is going on?

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Hi,

idk what the Mods will say...but just in case they're not able to respond in time for your lfs run, Metronidazole is a versatile anti-infective that fights several parasites and several bacterial species as well. IMHO it's well worth having on hand and useful enough that it can be justified as a "not sure exactly what to buy" purchase. Plus! you can add it to the tank water or mix it in food (esp. home-prepared or gel food).

Best wishes, and pulling very hard for you and your fishy charges,

Steve

PS: Pls forgive me for not knowing all the details of the current illness, but you mentioned Ich, true? Do you have anti-Ich meds on hand? Again idk what Mods will say, or what's on offer in ON, but ordinary antibiotics won't kill Ich. Malachite Green + Formalin will do it (although again idk how Mods would treat). If you can't find both MG and Formalin, Formalin alone is better than nothing, e.g. Kordon Formal-3 (iirc it's called "Formal-3." Formal something, in any case).

Edited by Steve1107

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I'll get the metro for sure. I have Ich-X which does contain malachite green and formaldehyde. Thanks!!

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I'll get the metro for sure. I have Ich-X which does contain malachite green and formaldehyde. Thanks!!

You're very welcome! Happy if I can help in any way. Those fishes need to get better, you know?

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Steve,

I strongly advice against any ich meds, because they are not necessary and dangerous. I cannot recall a single instance where they are necessary. Breeders and other people use them because it's cheap, not because it's the only the thing that works.

GG,

Metronidazole is great to have on hand, although it will not be of use here.

The Kanaplex and erythromycin are perfect. Thank you. :)

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Steve,I strongly advice against any ich meds, because they are not necessary and dangerous. I cannot recall a single instance where they are necessary.)

In interest of education -- and without hijacking GG's thread -- I'm going to start a new thread in hopes of learning more about this.

Thanks,

Steve

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Steve,I strongly advice against any ich meds, because they are not necessary and dangerous. I cannot recall a single instance where they are necessary.)

In interest of education -- and without hijacking GG's thread -- I'm going to start a new thread in hopes of learning more about this.

Thanks,

Steve

Thank you. I was going to suggest that, and will be happy to answer, to the best of my abilities, any questions you may have.

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Steve,

I strongly advice against any ich meds, because they are not necessary and dangerous. I cannot recall a single instance where they are necessary. Breeders and other people use them because it's cheap, not because it's the only the thing that works.

GG,

Metronidazole is great to have on hand, although it will not be of use here.

The Kanaplex and erythromycin are perfect. Thank you. :)

I've never used Ich meds. I have always used salt and elevated temperature. I was thinking about that and was wondering if raising temps will help. I know Ich dies off at around 87 degrees, but goodies can't tolerate that.

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Okay, I am back with the Prazi, I have the Erythromycin, my daughter is trying to figure out where she stashed the Kanaplex. I also have the Metro, Pimafix, Melafix and a ton of aquarium salt. Hit me with the schedule:)

I am afraid to ask, but all of my tanks have had at least one cleaning with potentially contaminated equipment *facepalm*...do they need treatment as well? I was researching Prazi and found a lot of information saying that you can use it to treat new fish in qt just to be safe, even when no symptoms are present. Keeping with my horrible timing, I have a Thai black ranchu coming in next Friday and I am wondering if I should treat him when I get him home to be safe. His tank has not been touched by anything that is contaminated (thank goodness).

Thanks again! I'd be totally overwhelmed and lost without your help.

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You can and should probably treat all your goldfish tanks with prazi and 0.1% salt. That amount of salt, or 0.2% if you want to play it even safer should deal with the ich.

For equipment, soak it with bleach, and then run through to get rid of the bleach. :)

Believe it or not, goldfish can be fine at 87+ temps. I just don't like for my fibs to be running at that high temp, unless I can't help it. :)

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You can and should probably treat all your goldfish tanks with prazi and 0.1% salt. That amount of salt, or 0.2% if you want to play it even safer should deal with the ich.

For equipment, soak it with bleach, and then run through to get rid of the bleach. :)

Believe it or not, goldfish can be fine at 87+ temps. I just don't like for my fibs to be running at that high temp, unless I can't help it. :)

I was afraid to see your response, but I'm stoked that I can treat all with Prazi for now, that Erythromycin is expensive! Thanks soooo much:) The amount of time/effort/research that moderators put in on this site is astounding. Now off the clean the last 2 tanks so I can begin treatment:)

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Alex, I am going to do 0.1 salt today and go up to 0.2 tomorrow. I would like to start Prazi today. Is it okay to do a tiny water change tomorrow (adding new Prazi to the new water) to boost the salt, or should I do 0.2 at once?

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I've been researching flukes and found this schedule on another forum. Does this look right to you guys? On day 2 it says add more prazi, so double the dose in the tank?

  • Day 1 - remove carbon, perform 30% water change with vacuuming and add Prazi to the tank
  • Day 2 - add Prazi
  • Day 3 to 5 - do nothing
  • Day 6 and 7 - add Prazi
  • Day 8 - normal water change with vacuuming
  • Day 14 - normal water change, then add Prazi
  • Day 21 - normal water change, then add Prazi
  • Day 28 - normal water change, then add Prazi
  • Day 35 - normal water change, add carbon, treatment is complete!

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I have two schedules published in this very same D&D sub-forum! :P:rofl

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I have two schedules published in this very same D&D sub-forum! :P:rofl

Haha! That's awesome:) Again, face palm. So far this morning everyone has had their bloodworms, and ate normally (voraciously). Fingers (and toes) crossed. With the luck I've had this past month, I feel like I should have a marine biologist/security guard at every tank lol.

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I just went to take a close look at all of my fish. Google is not looking good now. She is bloated. She now has tiny black spots the size of a pinhead. Some on their own, some in clusters. She is really gasping right now. The spots are on her back, near her vent, on her chin and on her gils. It is really hard to get a good shot of it. I also included a shot of "Butter". He has some of the same spots on his tummy. He is from a different tank. It's hard to see, but it's there. I'd pick them up to get a good shot but I don't want to hurt them. Especially with scales that are raising near their gills. Butter is also gasping, isolating himself and bottom sitting sporadically. Again, apologies if my pics screw up:)

IMG_1332_zpse298e9a2.jpg

IMG_1429_zps5e9ecc45.jpg

IMG_1404_zps6b95cad4.jpg

IMG_1348_zpsf75485fc.jpg

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I'd think the spots were ammonia burns...if there were ammonia in the tank. They are very distinct spots. Not like a smudge of black.

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Could you please upload a video of her for us?

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Short video of Google. They thought I had snacks, so sorry about the "photobombing". The dark black is her natural colour. The brownish specks are new. My fantail Butter has started showing these spots as well, predominantly on his belly.There are single spots, clusters of spots and some look like lines (around her mouth and chin). She is also turning yellow...her head and back almost look jaundiced, if that makes sense. Sorry if the video doesn't load properly (this is really testing my technological abilities). Tried to get as close as I could.

th_Googlesblues_zps35669b84.jpg

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She looks pretty good to me, with her fins relaxed and her swimming is easy. What food have you been feeding? Some foods will cause your fish to go yellow in places, especially the Repashy, or any food that contains a lot of algae. :)

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Hi, so sorry to read about Google's and Butter's troubles (your fish have such appealing, cute names!). I'm worried that the little brown specks that you've described and photographed so clearly are very real and represent petechial hemorrhages; that is, pinprick-sized spots of bleeding or bruising just below the surface. It usually takes either damage/injury to the lining of small blood vessels or, more likely, disruption of blood clotting ability. A common cause, and the most likely source given other symptoms you've reported, is a widespread infection, like septicemia (bacteria throughout the bloodstream). A yellowish change in color is worrying either for internal bleeding with breakdown of the red blood cells and release of their pigments the sites of bleeding; or liver involvement with loss of the liver's normal ability to process used red blood cell pigments.

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with a "usual suspect" among the Goldfish diseases we frequently discuss that causes this. Websearching suggests that the petechiae and other symptoms of poor sweet Google & pals correspond to infection by one of the so-called Gram-negative bacteria. This is important info because it helps with choosing an antibiotic.

I can also report that we've had two poor Goldfish with some of these findings who grew sicker and sicker then died while being treated

in the customarily recommended way for dropsy, including antibiotic treatment (Metro-Med) as if for GRAM-POSITIVE bacteria. This is not the treatment of first choice for Gram-negative bacteria.

So: I'm not a moderator nor in a position to recommend treatment. My concern is for your fish, whom you love, and their health and recovery. This post is for sharing observations that may not come from other sources in hopes it may help everyone help your fish. I challenge Mods and everyone to keep the focus on Google, Butter, and their comrades' well-being rather than my credentials, qualifications, and/or intentions. After all, we're all here for each other and for the fish, you know?

Best wishes, as this may well be a serious illness,

Steve

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She looks pretty good to me, with her fins relaxed and her swimming is easy. What food have you been feeding? Some foods will cause your fish to go yellow in places, especially the Repashy, or any food that contains a lot of algae. :)

She seems to go through spells where her behaviour seems fine and then she is gasping non-stop. This morning she looks a lot less swollen:) I'm hoping the Prazi is doing something. I have been researching like a crazy woman and all I can find are extremely rare diseases with "cross your fingers and hope" treatments. I have a feeling it's something complicated. I can't believe one shark and one forgetful water change could do this:(

Here's a thought that may be a bit out there: I had undetected supersaturated gases for 6 months. When I found out, I started degassing all of the water that goes into the tanks (I get about 75% out). This was about a year ago (when we installed a high pressure filter on the house). I wonder if it is possible that some of the symptoms could be attributed to the exposure to supersaturation over 6 months. Google also hasn't grown much in the past year, could it be due to the pressure in the water, thus causing stress and leaving her (and possibly others) open to infection. I'm grasping at straws. I shall not give up! lol

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Hi, so sorry to read about Google's and Butter's troubles (your fish have such appealing, cute names!). I'm worried that the little brown specks that you've described and photographed so clearly are very real and represent petechial hemorrhages; that is, pinprick-sized spots of bleeding or bruising just below the surface. It usually takes either damage/injury to the lining of small blood vessels or, more likely, disruption of blood clotting ability. A common cause, and the most likely source given other symptoms you've reported, is a widespread infection, like septicemia (bacteria throughout the bloodstream). A yellowish change in color is worrying either for internal bleeding with breakdown of the red blood cells and release of their pigments the sites of bleeding; or liver involvement with loss of the liver's normal ability to process used red blood cell pigments.

Unfortunately I'm not familiar with a "usual suspect" among the Goldfish diseases we frequently discuss that causes this. Websearching suggests that the petechiae and other symptoms of poor sweet Google & pals correspond to infection by one of the so-called Gram-negative bacteria. This is important info because it helps with choosing an antibiotic.

I can also report that we've had two poor Goldfish with some of these findings who grew sicker and sicker then died while being treated

in the customarily recommended way for dropsy, including antibiotic treatment (Metro-Med) as if for GRAM-POSITIVE bacteria. This is not the treatment of first choice for Gram-negative bacteria.

So: I'm not a moderator nor in a position to recommend treatment. My concern is for your fish, whom you love, and their health and recovery. This post is for sharing observations that may not come from other sources in hopes it may help everyone help your fish. I challenge Mods and everyone to keep the focus on Google, Butter, and their comrades' well-being rather than my credentials, qualifications, and/or intentions. After all, we're all here for each other and for the fish, you know?

Best wishes, as this may well be a serious illness,

Steve

Here is the only photo I have found that looks like Google's spots:

15886_168285_1_zps3c09420f.jpg

The site said that it was a melanin reaction as the immune system defends itself. This can be caused by environmental conditions (bad water-ammonia burns) and parasitic infection (most likely flukes). I think it's time for a post-mortem on the shark. I just want to know for sure what this is. I am going with flukes as this is the closest I can get to Google's (and now Butter's) symptoms. I am going to get a video of Butter up. He is now doing a lot of isolating himself, bottom sitting and heavy gasping/piping:( Everyone is still eating though. On a positive note, my ranchu tank seems to be unaffected (yes!!). Still wanted to know if I should treat my ranchu that comes in on Friday (with Prazi). I am so scared about introducing new fish. He'll be in a 40 gallon long by himself until I know that this is all over. Right now I have 15 goldfish in 5 tanks and an axolotl. Some my own, some rescues. The potential for damage is huge.

I am preparing myself for the worst (but expecting the best), and know this could be a long haul. I am going to look into the gram-negative bacteria right now. Thanks so much for the info! The symptoms seem very similar.

On a good note, I have seen zero Ick on the fish, but will continue with the salt/temp treatment for another 10 days. woohoo

For fun cause I need some: thanks for the comment about the fish names lol. My kids are nuts and come up with some real winners:) The new ranchu will be named Fu Man Chu (had to change the spelling so it works, not that I'll be writing his name down...at all haha.)

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Alex, forgot to add, google is eating: Hikari Lionhead, bloodworms, peas, cucumber, lima beans. Occasionally: oranges, blanched dark greens, pumpkin and green beans.

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Another cool creative name! Do your kids do outside consulting?

I really don't know what's going on, hopefully it's NOT bacterial. If parasites would be readily treatable I hope it turns out to be that, or something else you & fish can defeat easily. When the diagnosis remains unknown it's wisest to consider all possibilities, you know?

One thing that they say is essential, and most likely to lead to success, is a fantastic "I'm going to win this!" outlook like yours. Hold that thought!

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GG,

Those spots are most definitely NOT petechiae, and I very much agree with you that they appear to be melanophore migrations.

How is she doing today? If we could have daily updates that includes a video, that will be fantastic! :)

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