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Maschka1

Is this swim bladder disease? is there something I can do for her?

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  • Ammonia Level(Tank) = 0
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) = .25 ppm
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) = 10 ppm
  • Ph = 7.2
  • KH = 35.8 ppm
  • GH = 71.6 ppm

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? = API drops

* Water temperature? = 74 F

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?

100 gallons and been running about 6 months

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?

Fluval canister filter (406) and Penguin emperor over the back filter

* How often do you change the water and how much?

I change it at least every other week about 30-40%

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • last water change was 2 days ago, and previous change was 1 week before that
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • 4 goldfish, 2 are under 3 in, one is about 4in, and the sick one is about 5-6 in
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • Stress coat, Stress zyme, and leaf zone (for plants)
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • Repashy soilent green (every day), Blood worms for one meal on sunday, and new life spectrum pellets are the staple diet. They generally get fed twice a day in some combination of these foods and/or I supplement with Repashy community food and veggies or other "snacks" on occasion
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • no
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • no
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • none
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • nothing obvious
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
  • yes

OK here is the deal. Following last weeks water change I had a busy morning on monday and instead of feeding their normal repashy, I feed them new life spectrum and accidentally overfed them (not way overboard, but more than I would have liked to give them. When I returned that evening I found my large oranda laying upside down on the floor of the tank.

This fish is about 10 years old and has never been sick.

I fasted her for 2 days and she was still upside down, so I gave it one more day. on the 4th day I offered her hand feeding of small bits of Repashy soilent green, which she took a very small amount of. After eating she started to perk up a little and spent a day (or at least the morning and evening) upright. then on Saturday she was upside down again. I did another water change and tried to hand feed her but she refused food. On sunday evening she began swimming wildly, bumping into things, ramming the glass and acting as if she was severely disoriented or blind. I decided to put her in a hospital tank, for her own safety, because she had done quite a bit of damage to herself (I was hesitant at first to move her for fear of stressing her more).

none of my other fish appear to be ill.

So now I am concerned. She has spent the better part of a week, upside down, and now is refusing to eat and acting terribly disoriented when she does attempt to swim. It has been a VERY long time since I have had a "floaty" fish. Does this look like a swim bladder issue? something else? Any suggestions for what I could/should do for her?

I live near a veterinary teaching hospital and I am certainly not opposed to contacting them for help, but we are a land locked state and I am honestly not sure how a vet appointment for a stressed out fish would work. does anyone have any experience with that?

I love my fish very much. and have had her for a long time. I just want her to be a happy, wiggly fish, again. I hate seeing her so stressed out.

Here is a short video of her:

Thank you so much for your help!!!

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I'm very sorry to be the bearer of bad news but once a fish flips and sinks there isn't much hope they will recover. I see some bumpy rays on the tail fins that look like thickened slime coat, could be from parasites. The whirling is also a bad sign.

Since you are showing nitrites and your kh/gh values are low it is possible you do not have a stable pH or cycle in your tank. I hope you are able to monitor your params and adjust your water changes for this time.

I really hope the best outcome for you and your fish. :hug

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Oh my, that is hard to see. I'm sorry. She's a beautiful fish. :hug

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I hope there's something that will work.

That whirling is a bad sign and hard to watch. :(

:hug

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As Una said, the situation is tough, but I would like to try something regardless.

Do you think you could try to get some metronidazole powder? If not, try to get some tetra parasite guard.

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Alex, the other ones I found with metronidazole were Seachem Metronidazole and General Cure by API.

Best of luck with your sick oranda.

Edited by Avepico

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Thanks for the replies. I have been having a horrible time getting this tank to settle down and cycle properly. I thought maybe I was doing too many water changes, so I cut back, but then got hair algae (of more like fur) and had to do a major pruning of my plants, which then led to more algae. I have never had so much trouble getting a tank to balance out, before. I worried that after I over fed them I may have had a nitrate spike but I was dumb and didnt test the water before doing another water change.

I dont see any obvious external parasites, and her tank mates all look perfectly normal, but I will certainly keep that in mind. She is a bit banged up after last night. she was whirling into the drift wood repeatedly before I could get a new tank set up for her and ended up with quite a bit of damage to her fins and scales.

I dont want her to just suffer, but if there is a chance of recovery I also dont want to give up on her. when you say there isnt much hope of recovery, do you mean survival in general? or is there a chance she could live an OK life and eventually be able to compensate to a functional state?

I hate watching her like this. it just makes me cry.

I do have some tetra parasite guard in the fish cabinet and I have some metronidazole pills for dogs. I could call the vet tomorrow and see if I could get powder (unless it is something I could get at the LFS?)

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The pills would work fine actually. How many do you have? I think for a 10 gallon treatment tank, we will need 14 tablets, if each tablet is at least 200mg, which I think they will be.

The reason I am suggesting this is not because of parasites, but because I think there may be an internal bacterial infection related to the digestive tract, and the metronidazole is one of the best candidates for treating these types of infections. The Tetra Parasite Guard is because it contains metronidazole (along with other things) and can be used when in a pinch. :)

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Thanks for the idea. Unfortunately I only have 500mg of metronidazole left :( I do have a bottle of tylosin, if you think that might work, instead? if not I will send my husband out in search of more metronidazole tomorrow.

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Thanks for the idea. Unfortunately I only have 500mg of metronidazole left :( I do have a bottle of tylosin, if you think that might work, instead? if not I will send my husband out in search of more metronidazole tomorrow.

I don't know if tylosin will work or not. I have never tried it. It worked amazingly for Dash's tear stain issues (Dash is my dog lol), and I am glad that we did not have to continue using it after 6 weeks. :)

If you can get metronidazole alone, that would be fantastic. If not, we can try the Parasite Guard. :)

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I'm so sorry your Oranda isn't doing good at all. It was a hard video to watch. :hug

I hope once treatment starts you will see an improvement. I know one time when I needed a med. I couldn't find it anywhere and I finally had asked a Manager of a Pet Store (tropical w/ lots of supplies/meds) I frequent more and more if they could order a specific med for me. They did and it came in two days. (it might have been the next day. Can't remember one day or two.)

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OK, we got some metronidazole powder, today. The container says to give 100-200 mg (Per 10 gallons- she is currently in a 29 gallon), every 2 days, until symptoms disappear. That seems rather vague... What would you suggest I try as a dose and dosing schedule? when should I do water changes?

Thank you so much, everyone, for your kind words and support.

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OK, we got some metronidazole powder, today. The container says to give 100-200 mg (Per 10 gallons- she is currently in a 29 gallon), every 2 days, until symptoms disappear. That seems rather vague... What would you suggest I try as a dose and dosing schedule? when should I do water changes?

Thank you so much, everyone, for your kind words and support.

Let us do 200 mg for every 10 gallons. If you have a 10 gallon tank, that's better, because it will save on the meds, especially because we will like need to go to about 14 days.

Please check parameters daily, and use Prime to neutralize as needed.

Every 2 days, remove all the water, and redose with fresh metro.

Good luck, and keep us updated, please.

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Update:

Hello everyone,

my goldfish has been on metronidazole for a week now (which means she has been upside down for two weeks). I decided to take her into the vet, today. They performed an ultrasound on her and commented that not only is she full of roe, and probably egg bound, but they also said they could not locate her swim bladder (an organ that is generally the predominant organ in the abdomen). the vet wasn't really sure what to do for her. Has anyone else ever had any experience with a deflated swim bladder/ egg bound fish? She is still eating and pooping, to some extent, but her condition is deteriorating. She has lost weight and is starting to show signs of scale lose and ripped fins from her constant, upside-down position. The vet thought it was worth giving her more time to see if she will correct it, herself. Any ideas?

Thanks!

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I would give her more time. The metronidazole is particularly appropriate in this case, because egg bound females are very much prone to infected eggs.

The only other thing I would like is for you to stop feeding her completely. We will evaluate in 3 days. The idea here is that nutrient deprivation will encourage her to re-absorb the eggs.

Hang in there.

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Thought I would give another update and have another question...

My Goldfish is doing a little better. She has put on weight and the part of her tail that got torn off during the ultrasound is healed and starting to grow back. She will sleep, on occasion, on her belly, but if stressed or after a bout of swimming, still flips upside down. We have noticed over the past 2 days she has spent most of her time on her side and not upside down. Do you think this is a good sign? I am not sure how recovery would work and if she would slowly correct her orientation as she heals, or if it should be as sudden as it came on.

We have kept her in a 29 gallon tank with only 5.5 in of water so she doesn't have to work as hard to get to the surface. We do 100% water changes every day, and have been giving her mild salt baths while we change the water. She gets multiple, very small, meals a day. I was reading that the swim bladder is connected to the GI tract and metabolism causes CO2 to enter the swim bladder. I was curious if there would be a good way to give her a probiotic to help replace the gut flora that we may have killed during the metronidazol treatment? would that be helpful?

My last idea is I have located a hyperbolic chamber. The vet had mentioned when they get benthic fish from the ocean and want to bring them to be kept in an aquarium, they slowly transition them to the right pressure in a hyperbolic chamber so that their swim bladders dont burst. We were contemplating if we could possibly use this idea for the opposite idea, and take her to a lower pressure so as to help it inflate...I was curious if anyone else has ever come across a theory like this (I know it is a bit odd)

So far she has been upside down for just about 4 weeks, has anyone else tried to wait out recovery on a swim bladder issue? how long did it take your fish to recover? If it is permanent, is it reasonable to keep her in the current set up as long as she is eating and healthy (aside from her orientation)? or would that constitute a quality of life issue? I would love to hear other opinions.

Thanks a bunch!

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Hello,

To me, once they are having SB problems, it's not going to get better, even with intervention. Floaters will progress to being sinkers. :(

Having said that, they can still have a good quality of life, but you do have to make some eventual accommodations, such as barebottom tank and daily cleaning of the floor, once she becomes a sinker.

Best of luck! :hug

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