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A hole in Jet's wen


4prettyfish

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you've done well, grasshopper :) stand proud :bighug

from this point forward, just follow the meds routine that is suggested & recommended. if in a week's time that kicks in for the better, then perhaps we don't need to do this again. we will reassess over the next few days going by your reported observations :)

Thanks Helen. We did well. Grasshopper! ? What? ha ha I'm only adding the kanaplex into the qt tank. I only put that tiny bit into his wound after the surgery was over. How long do I continue with the kanaplex and qt'ing Jet? He is still kind of just hanging at the bottom of the tank. I feel really bad for him. I fed him that half pea yesterday afternoon, then again around 8ish pm, then again this morning around 9ish. I noticed this morning there were pea bites on the bottom of the tank. I didn't notice anything last night about the peas. So I don't know if the peas were from last night or this morning not eating it.

I did a WC last night. 100%. After seeing the peas not eaten I did another wc after cking my param. this morning. I didn't like looking at that mess. I took out the other artificial plant. Ammonia .50 Nitrite 0 Nitrate 0 Ph 7.6 Jet is kind of the same. Sitting on the bottom of the tank. gliding at times. He just doesn't act"normal" like my others. He did rush for the pea though. I might try feeding him a few blood worms much later. His wen looks the same I think. I doubt I'll be back on computer rest of the day/evening.

Good for you Taylor!! :nana

The videos didnt work for me. I don't if its because I'm on my iPad or not . . . :idont

if you looking for maximum cuteness overload, be very sure to see the second video posted.. I melted like butter.. :wub:

That's why I went back to get him. :) I'm so glad I did now.

Oh my gosh you all are so courageous and strong :) my hats off to you both :) I don't now if I would have the nerve or the stomach to do what you all did :) but I am so happy to hear it went well and Jet is recovering nicely :) way to go ladies!!!!

Thank you so much. I bet you would have done the same if it were one of your fish and you would have been great. The things we do for our fish. :)

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Woah! I just read this whole thread from the start. I usually stay out of D&D threads so that is why I am so late here. Forgive me. :)

I just want to say that Cheryl, you are one VERY brave lady, and Helen you truly are amazing. :grouphug I have got everything crossed that Jet makes a quick recovery and can join his fishy friends soon.

I :heart this place SOOOOOOOOO much.

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Just a thought, normally it's not advisable :no: to feed a lot to fish under treatment otherwise you'll not only have bad water but also your fish will have to spend his energy digesting the food instead of recuperating. Maybe that's why he seems lethargic. I hope all end well. :)

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Woah! I just read this whole thread from the start. I usually stay out of D&D threads so that is why I am so late here. Forgive me. :)

I just want to say that Cheryl, you are one VERY brave lady, and Helen you truly are amazing. :grouphug I have got everything crossed that Jet makes a quick recovery and can join his fishy friends soon.

I :heart this place SOOOOOOOOO much.

I never knew that you try to stay out of the d&d section. I'm curious as of why? I appreciate you reading my thread then and all the sincere words Bec. That was a lot of reading you did. It was pretty amazing how Helen was sitting on top of my kitchen table ( :teehee ) helping me through all of this. Did you know that it was 2 am Helen's time when we both got on the internet and we ended our internet connection around 4:15am her time. She got up in the middle of the night to help me. I too hope Jet makes a full recovery. Thank you again. :)

Hope Jet is doing well.

Thank you Heidi. I appreciate it a lot. :)

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Just a thought, normally it's not advisable :no: to feed a lot to fish under treatment otherwise you'll not only have bad water but also your fish will have to spend his energy digesting the food instead of recuperating. Maybe that's why he seems lethargic. I hope all end well. :)

Thanks Jeff. I appreciate it. I decided to feed All of my fish just peas today. So Jet had no worms after all. Helen did remind me on the day of the procedure that Jet has been sedated twice in one morning and he needs time to recuperate. I have just fed him half a pea since his surgery though for each meal. Thank you for the information re: the energy of digesting food. I didn't realize this or think about that.

I must say though that Jet's behavior has more or less always been like this ever since I purchased him on 8-7. He has always been just a little off. I just want him to get better. I will always welcome suggestions/help/advice from you, Helen, Alex, anyone that can help me with Jet. So you don't have to give me thoughts Jeff, just tell me what to do. I'll be grateful. :)

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awww Cheryl, I am always sitting on kitchen tables at 2am :o:blink:

:rofl :rofl :tomuch:

I ran out of "likes" Helen. ha haha I must say, You looked very nice at 2am to 4am sitting on my table. That was pretty awesome. I mean, Who does that?

:th_news:

Helen will. :rockon

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Woah! I just read this whole thread from the start. I usually stay out of D&D threads so that is why I am so late here. Forgive me. :)

I just want to say that Cheryl, you are one VERY brave lady, and Helen you truly are amazing. :grouphug I have got everything crossed that Jet makes a quick recovery and can join his fishy friends soon.

I :heart this place SOOOOOOOOO much.

I never knew that you try to stay out of the d&d section. I'm curious as of why? I appreciate you reading my thread then and all the sincere words Bec. That was a lot of reading you did. It was pretty amazing how Helen was sitting on top of my kitchen table ( :teehee ) helping me through all of this. Did you know that it was 2 am Helen's time when we both got on the internet and we ended our internet connection around 4:15am her time. She got up in the middle of the night to help me. I too hope Jet makes a full recovery. Thank you again. :)

Hope Jet is doing well.

Thank you Heidi. I appreciate it a lot. :)

:hi Cheryl! I tend to stay out of the D&D threads just because I can't help so I can't really offer anything constructive. I sometimes show my face from time to time if there is a U.K. member in need of meds but other than that I leave it up to the helpers, mods and other more knowledgeable members. That's not to say I don't care, I honesty do. I remember when Chelsea's Elvis was burnt badly by the heater, I cried everytime Chelsea updated her thread. Good and bad news, I was truly affected by those turn of events. :( Even now I think Elvis has a little piece of my heart. :heart

I hope this answers your queries. :hug

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Hi Becks. You are too sweet with the :hi 's and the :hug 's. I appreciate them and your returned post. I was just curious. So thank you for giving me your answer. And again, thank you for taking the time to read this long thread then. :hug

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Update on Jet's surgical procedure that was done 3 days ago on Monday, the 9th.

Last Friday the 6th at 11:30pm Jet was put into the qt tank with KanaPlex. This evening will be day 5 with KanaPlex.

Last night I added another airstone to the qt tank because I noticed the one that was in his qt wasn't working all that great. After viewing it better the darn tubing was particially under the tank. UGhh! I didn't need to do another wc last night so I just put in a new one.

I didn't need to do a wc today so I didn't. I will tomorrow morning though. I just double primed. Today Jet seemed a bit more active. Perhaps it was the airstone. He'd swim around some and glide but then would eventually stop in a corner. But,.. I have noticed him more active today then yesterday. I fed him about 4 little hikari pellets today. That's it. He went and grabbed them fast. As much as I wanted to give him more food I didn't.

I'll probably post a short video of him tomorrow and take him out of the water to get a good look at his wen. Just by a visual look when he surfaces the tank I can see a hole in his wen due to my cutting and it looks the same. An off white.

Alex: Just to let you know I haven't received your generous meds yet that you mailed out. When I do, I will let you know. :) You can let me know if you want me to feed any to him or not then. Thank you again. :)

Edited by 4prettyfish
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Hi Helen. I hope you will think it's a good update after you see his wen.

I don't know what your going to think about his so called lack of swimming behavior though. :(

I'll post video/photo's for sure sometime in the morning. Thanks

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Photo's and video's up date. Procedure was 60 hours ago. This evening will be day 6 of KanaPlex.

I did a 100% WC this morning and fed Jet a little blood worms. He won't eat rest of the day.

I'm still not liking how he swims. In the video he is somewhat more active though. But he will bottom sit/bottom hover for a few min/several min. then glide some to then go back in his previous position. Again, He's just off.

Photo's first. I assure you he is not gasping for air even though the photo's look it. I only had him up for a second while snapping the photo. My poor Jet. I feel so bad for him. :(

[/url]">http://9-12-13ShowingJetsslowprogressampBugsysc

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[/url]">http://9-12-13ShowingJetsslowprogressampBugsysc

[/url]">http://9-12-13ShowingJetsslowprogressampBugsysc

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A short video showing you Jet's wen while in the container.

http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/4prettyfish/media/9-12-13ShowingJetsslowprogressampBugsyscolorchange008_zps48b0a498.mp4.html

A video of Jet in his qt somewhat swimming around then bottom sitting/hovering. After the video he just stayed in his corner and bottom sat for awhile. Should I be doing anything else for him? Do you think after 10 days of qt he might be better? I think he enjoys it more in the 60g and being stimulated somewhat a bit more with his two tank mates. I just feel bad that he's probably bored even though he was doing the same in the 60g tank. :( Should I be adding salt to the tank? What about when I get Alex's meds, feed or not feed him the mm's?

Thank you so much for viewing all this.

Video of him in qt this morning swimming/sitting

http://s1173.photobucket.com/user/4prettyfish/media/9-12-13ShowingJetsslowprogressampBugsyscolorchange009_zpsf7b24b35.mp4.html

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For now, I would keep in QT. Being bored is certainly better than being picked on by tank mates, and he will get more new water in QT.

I'm actually really annoyed at the USPS. It seems that every time I don't get tracking, my stuff gets lost, or really delayed. I can send you more tomorrow, since I am so pooped from traveling. If both of them arrives, that's fine. You can pass it on to someone else. :)

I don't think I want you to feed him the Medi-Gold anyway. I'd like for you to have it on hand, but that's it.

How is his appetite? Poop?

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Hi Alex, I don't think the meds got lost though. I'll hope they come today. :) If you don't think I need to feed Jet the meds by all means please do not mail/send me more. I appreciate the jester. Thank you. I can order some if I have to. but your's will arrive. :) If I have to get some I'd rather wait until next month if I can wait that long. I'd rather catch up on all my other bills first.

Jet's poop looks good/normal. I find some in the qt. When I do feed Jet, he eagerly hurries to grab the food. The other day he did that with his pea to only not eat it after all. Jet ate yesterday and this morning though. When he see's me he seems happy because he'll mostly come and greet me at the surface of the water. Then there are the few times where he will ignore me and remain bottom sitting. I just feel bad for him. He's such a beautiful fish and I have noooooo regrets bringing him home. I'd like to think it was meant to be, so all of us can try to get him 100% better. :) He'd probably like to eat more but I'm trying not to over due it on the food.

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Hang in there, he is better off in QT alone, I think he will be alright. Fish under treatment is usually a bit off and from what you've described (#216) and the vid, that's pretty normal bahaviour. All the best.

cheers

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Thanks Jeff. I'm trying to hang in there. I know he needs at least ten days in the qt with the kanaplex. Correct?
I don't mean to keep repeating myself but It's just that ever since I bought him and brought him home on 8-7 he has remained the same in his behavior as above in post 214 video. I guess it's like what Alex had said a while back that Jet more than likely had this problem when I purchased him. I'm waiting for the day/moment that I'm going to see him act like the others and swim all over the tank.



I'm sorry for the questions below but I've been wondering these.

Helen, Jeff, Alex, feel free any one of you to answer please. :)

What do you think of the photo's and video of the area on his wen where the ulcer was? Do you think enough of the ulcer was cut out? Does another procedure need to be done? Does it look like it's healing? After the 10 days of Kanaplex treatment will I see a difference in his demeanor? Does having an ulcer make a fish not get better with his behavior such as Jet's? Do you think he' always going to be like the way he is now? Is it known for a fact that the Kanaplex is going to work? Work for what? It's an antibiotic right? So to not get an infection for cutting into his wen then, but no cure from the ulcer.Oka

Okay, Sorry for all the questions for I am trying to be patient. I should have purchased a stand for the 20g tank. I hate it being on the floor but I don't really have room to put it anywhere else. Thank you

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I'm going to leave it to Jeff and Helen to decide if more cutting needs to be done, but to me, it seems like there is quite a bit of infected tissue left, and it might be worth it to do a bit more surgery.

The Kanaplex doesn't guarantee to work, but it's about as strong a broad spectrum antibiotic as you could find. The other is oxolinic acid, and it's really not really a big difference the two of them. The OA might actually be a little worse in terms of toxicity and resistance, actually.

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I'm going to leave it to Jeff and Helen to decide if more cutting needs to be done, but to me, it seems like there is quite a bit of infected tissue left, and it might be worth it to do a bit more surgery.

The Kanaplex doesn't guarantee to work, but it's about as strong a broad spectrum antibiotic as you could find. The other is oxolinic acid, and it's really not really a big difference the two of them. The OA might actually be a little worse in terms of toxicity and resistance, actually.

Thanks Alex on these answers. You see infected tissue how? Is that the red on the inside of the hole/slit? Now that I think of it, it was that off white color after his procedure and now it's red. Okay, makes since if that's it. I've never had a sick fish before so I am learning this stuff/info now. I'm so glad I have the Kanaplex since it's a strong antibiotic. I bought two of them in my area. I hope that's going to be enough for Jet. I still have my $15.00 gift certificate from Tastyworms from winning the raffle. I've been debating about getting more. Or, more prime. Or more hikari lionhead pellets. ha ha Or ..........................:) I'm kind of waiting to see on Jet I think.

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The red is the infected tissue, and you hit it right on the head. The tissue when I saw it before was white(ish), but now it's becoming red. To me, that indicates that the infection is still active somewhere under the wen, and no matter how strong an antibiotic is, if it can't access the tissue, it's not going to do a good job at all. The wen, being not well vascularized at all, is really a bad place to deliver meds, and that's why the surgery. It's to help remove as much of the infected tissue as possible, and to expose the rest for the meds to work on.

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UGghh.

Thanks Alex for explaining. I had a feeling Jet wasn't healing or getting better. Helen and I had talked briefly about possibly needing to do the procedure again. I'll do what I have to but it was really scary about Jet not wanting to wake up. I can see cutting wider out from the wound now. I appreciate all your help Alex along with Jeff's and Helen's. Thank you.

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To be honest that wound does look a bit red. I'm not familiar with Kanaplex and it's uses as we don't have it here in Australia. I think before deciding to do another operation here which might freak out both the operators and fish, let's discussion our options here.

Alex. can this kanaplex be mixed into a thick paste and apply directly to the wound? If yes, then I wound suggest first do a deep cleaning with a q-tip dip into HP (you most likely encounter some bleeding, that's ok) then apply the kanaplex paste, once or twice daily. How's that sound?

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all I can offer is more guidance to Cheryl should it be determined that more surgery is required. I know little about wen ulcers, in fact, little about wens in general. so I am not the best person to be making decisions where it concerns their removal or their treatment. I take a step back and await instruction.

so, I can only offer help here if at all a procedure is required, to which I will be happy to go another all nighter with Cheryl on Skype and help her through as I did before.

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