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MexiMike83

Frayed fins that just won't go away.

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Hi everyone!

The test results were done earlier today at petsmart (I don't have a kit myself) were as follows
  • Test Results for the Following:
    • * Ammonia Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
    • * Nitrate level(Tank) 0-1
    • * Ammonia Level(Tap) Not tested, I am almost certain it is zero. It was when I tested it a year ago anyway.
    • * Nitrite Level(Tap) same as above
    • * Nitrate level(Tap) same as above
    • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) Not sure, I know our water to be very hard and therefore alkalotic
    • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) same as above.
    • Other Required Info:
      • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Petsore used api ammonia and tetra strips
      • * Water temperature? 74ish
      • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 56 gallons, 2 years
      • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 2 aqueon quiet flow 55/76s
      • * How often do you change the water and how much? Lately 50% every one to two days been doing this for the last 2 weeks or so. Before that 60% one to two times a week.
      • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? today, 80%
      • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 orandas approx 7 inches head to tail each. 1 rubber lip pleco, and a cory cat.
      • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime. This week started using flourish, and co2 booster.
      • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Omega one sinking tablets and soilent green. 2 - 3 times a day.
      • * Any new fish added to the tank? The pleco was added about 4 months ago.
      • * Any medications added to the tank? Only melafix at the moment. I have yet to take the carbon out while dosing. I hope it's doing something. I'm just trying really hard to establish my BB with the 2 new filters. (Replaced both HOB's)
      • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
      • Oh man...um...Prazi pro tx done twice. Salt dips. Melafix. and maracyn 2 (I believe. I still have an unopened box)
      • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Lucy (red cap) had a red tinge on her caudal fin as if something bit her - it looked like it was bleeding at one point) And both have frayed fins. The other fish don't seem to be affected.
      • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Lucy sometimes bottom sits when I change the water, she gets active right away once the filter turns back on. Today she was a lot better and was tryin to get me to feed her while I was changing the water.

One year ago we tried to tackle the frayed fin issue of my fish and I dropped the ball and nothing ever became of it. I think my thinking was that if I just keep changing the water and keeping it clean it will go away - I just realized today that it has been a year and while I wouldn't say it has gotten worse, it certainly hasn't gotten any better.

I have AQ salt (I would rather not ruin my plants if I have the choice. All were disenfected with PP). I have a box of marycn two, melafix and an unopened bag of metromeds (although I'm not sure how old it is, it could be over a year old).

The old thread can be found under my thread "popeye" when Koko was fightin that.

Here's a video of the fins

So my questions are, should I continue the water changes dump the carbon and try the melafix for a few weeks? Or what?

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When my big pearlie Roos was still alive she often had torn fins that seemed to take a lot longer to heal than they should. I found that treating for fin flukes with prazi and doing several salt dips worked wonderfully. For some reasons she was much more sensitive to them than my other fish, and required more frequent dips and prazi rounds to keep her in tip top shape. The mods will probably more helpful, but prolonged torn fins without any sign of infection typically makes me think fin flukes.

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If you have access to a microscope, why not do a skin, gill, and fin scrape? That will tell you if you have a fluke issue or not.

I'd be much more inclined to do another course of salt and prazi rather than melafix. The reddening of the fins and the fact they both are a little damages is more symptomatic of flukes/external irritants. I always salt dip prior to beginning fluke treatments, and it's a good habit too. The slime coat will be stripped, as well as anything attached, and the medication will have better access to the surface.

Still, if you can scrape, definitely do so.

Both same sex too?

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A 3rd round of.prazi? I dont have access to a scope right now. Alex suggested malachite green and another med i cant remember though it is in the old thread, the last time we attempted this.

I believe they are both girls i think. I have never seen breeding stars on either of them.

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I didnt try the malachite or the other one he suggested. How many times did you use prazi for the same fish pearly?

Edited by MexiMike83

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malachite green and acriflavine, or methalyne blue? I wouldn't have thought malachite green for this though- was this for a dip? How long ago was your last prazi treatment?

Edited by Narny105

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You're definitely due for another parasite treatment anyway You'll want to do prazi treatment rounds at least every 6-12 months. Salt dipping prior to starting prazi is completely up to you, however it is definitely beneficial to do so. I've posted the salt dip protocol below as well. You can start the prazi once they are back in the main tank.

PRAZIQUANTEL

Day 1: Big WC (>50%), add Prazi. Make sure salt is at the appropriate concentration. This is the beginning of Round 1.

Day 5: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 1.
Day 6: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 2.
Day 10: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 2.
Day 11: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 3.
Day 15: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 3.
Day 16: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 4.
Day 20: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 4.
Day 21: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 5.
Day 25: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 5.
Day 26: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 6.
Day 30: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 6.

This is enough for 6 rounds, should you need to go out that far.
Some reminders: Prazipro should only have salt to 0.1% if you are using regular dose. If double dosing Prazipro, you can raise salt to 0.3%. If you are using Prazi powder or tablets, then salt is at 0.3%.

SALT DIP

1. dissolve 30 teaspoons salt/gallon of water (30 grams/Liter, or 113.7g/gallon). This concentration is 3%. Let it match the temp/pH of the tank, and make sure to add de-chlorinator. You can also use tank water, but because you are adding a lot of salt per gallon, you will need to heat up the water. Hence, it's crucial that you cool it back down.
2. prepare a holding tank. This is a tank that is pH/temp matched with the main tank, and has been de-chlorinated. This can be a 5 gallon tub, with bubblestone, or something bigger.
3. make sure you have some sort of timer
4. gently lift the fish out of the tank, and place into temp/pH matched salt solution.
5. start timer.
6. if the fish stays continues to stay upright, or tilts over but can get back up, keep him/her in the salt solution for exactly 5 minutes.
7. remove fish from the salt, and place in holding tank. The reason why we do this is to: 1) give the fish a place to recover by him/herself, and 2)to let the fish purge out ammonia/wastes in a place that is not the main tank.
8. if the fish starts to lose balance and cannot get back before the minutes, remove him/her and place in holding tank, as described in #6.
9. after 1-2 hours, the fish can be moved back to the main tank. He/She might still be disoriented, but should be fine.

Edited by Narny105

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In regards to sexing, take a photo of their vents and we can sex them for you

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I don't understand why the repeated treatments for flukes. Are they in our drinking water? I am of the opinion this treatment isnt working. I want what's best for them, but I have done this prazi thing twice now and it hasn't done anything for the problem.

As far as the sex goes Steve (I think that's his name) from Rain garden thought they were girls when I bought them. Im curious, of what import does the sex matter?

Edited by MexiMike83

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I typically treat my fish every 4-6 months for flukes. Just with Prazi and then one or two salt dips. I find the dips help the Prazi be more effective

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praziquantel, salt, and every other parasite treatment that isn't for the purpose of disinfecting, won't completely get rid of all parasites. They have several life cycles, which is why we do several rounds within a treatment to provide the most effective relief of parasites. It's perfectly normal for fish to have some parasites on them, and typically if I did a slime coat scrape (base of gills to base of tail) and found one or two flukes, I wouldn't bother treating since there's not necessarily an infestation.

So in general you do want to do 'preventative rounds' quarterly to yearly on the tank as a means of population control.

Fin flukes are difficult to deal with, so the dip will be a good option before the prazi

Edited by Narny105

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I don't understand why the repeated treatments for flukes. Are they in our drinking water? I am of the opinion this treatment isnt working. I want what's best for them, but I have done this prazi thing twice now and it hasn't done anything for the problem.

As far as the sex goes Steve (I think that's his name) from Rain garden thought they were girls when I bought them. Im curious, of what import does the sex matter?

If Steve sexed them as female I'd trust his judgement. Sex matters because males spawning behaviour can also be a result of frayed fins, however they look more like tears/splits in the video to me.

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I understand but we did this salt/prazi thing before and it did nothing for the problem. The fins still looked like they do today. So what other possibilities could be causing this?

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Yes, nearly a year ago, and as I said fin flukes are difficult to treat, so I think with a few salt dips alongside praziquantel rounds, you'll see some improvement. If not, you've at least done several rounds or praziquantel and some dips.

You said you were also recommended malachite green somewhere else, however Methylene blue or alternatively acriflavine makes much more sense in regards to fin issues, but used in QT as bath, not in the main tank.

I'd be inclined to do as suggested with the salt bath (3%) and praziquantel (salt the main tank to 0.1% during prazi treatment) first, and once that option has been exhausted, move towards something else. It's strange it's been so long, but fin flukes are one of the more obvious causes of such symptoms.

I can't find the old thread- can you please link it?

Edited by Narny105

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Sorry Narny I appreciate you helping me. Im not trying to argue and frustrate anyone. It's just that I feel like ive been down this road before and no, no real improvement was made last time. Im on a budget until i start this new job and time will be limited as i prepare for grad school. You are correct it was meth blue, I mis spoke.

What about a bacterial infection? There is sort of a white line around where kokos fins are frayed. I had thought that that might be the fins trying to grow back but I'm not sure. She had Popeye back then, could this be related?

And lastly GFconnection had this anti bad bath, would this with the prazi in the main tank be an okay approach to get rid of this? Sorry again, if what you say is the consensus of everyone here than I will do it again. I just hope I'm not doing the same thing and expecting different results.

Sure, I'm on my iPhone give me a sec

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Thanks, and no, I'm not getting frustrated so no worries on that front! It's near midnight and I'm pulling an assignment all-nighter, so sorry if I do sound frustrated :rofl

I just read through the thread good to confirm the other medications. I had a feeling it'd be meth blue or acriflavine

I understand that it's definitely a frustrating issue. Ripped fins can be symptomatic of pretty much most issues. Is the white around the fins fungus looking, or just discolouration? .

Edited by Narny105

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Mike,

It doesn't look too bad to me. Try doing daily salt dips (3%) three days in a row, followed by flukes treatment as suggested above, before you do anything else. :)

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Hi guys. I recorded another video using the DSLR (this was done before I read DNAlex's post), I think it shows the fins better. More info can't hurt right? Let me know what you think. I'll have to try and get a hold of some money and order the stuff online. Will the stuff on GFconnection work for this? http://goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=171&catId=1

Should I pick up this too http://goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=28&catId=1? Or any other med while I'm at it? Lastly, will the .1% harm my plants do you think?

Thanks

Oh, almost forgot here's the other video. In the future I will use a pen to point instead of saying "right there". I'm mostly looking at the caudal fins of both of them.

Edited by MexiMike83

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Mike,

Let's just do salt dips first, and then go from there. I am not entirely sure that you have to spend any money on those meds right now, actually.

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Don't you have salt and praziquantel (PraziPro) on hand? Salt and prazi are by far the most affordable treatments, and in this case might be the most effective. Try the salt dips and prazi treatments first, then other options can be looked at

edit: sniped by alex :P

Edited by Narny105

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I can get salt easy enough. What kind of salt do you get again at the store in bulk? I have some of the Aquarium stuff but it's expensive, I will of course use it first though. Prazi, I have to drive for an hour to get or order online. I used all I had left last time.

I will try the salt first.

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I am all about cheap, because I am cheap :rofl :Rofl :rofl

Get Morton's Pickling and Canning Salt. It's about $2 for 4 pounds.

When was the last time you treated for flukes? I see that you will need to do this in the near future, but I think there's a little bit of time so that you can figure out your finances. :)

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