Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

Recommended Posts

My black moor is having some creepy skin issues. The scales on his humpy head have peeled off and all I see are two pink humps. Details are as follows:

I am posting the water params as they were last night when I got home because I think it is relevant. Today they are all reading 0 on an un cycled QT tank since I did a total water change.

Ammonia: 2ppm (yikes!)

Nitrite: 0ppm

Nitrate: 0ppm

Tap Levels: I don’t have these handy right now

PH: 7.6/ 7.8 (high PH test) and I use Gold Buffer so this is usually consistent. Three weeks ago I used Kordon NovAqua since the pet store was out of Prime and it crashed my PH to 6.0, even with the Gold Buffer!

Test kit: Api Master drop kit and I test PH and Ammonia on this tank twice a week

Tank Size: 20 gallons running since July 1st

Filters: AC 50 and AC 20

Water Changes: Normally 50% every Sunday, Wednesday and Friday since this tank is a QT but I missed yesterday

Early today I did a 100% water change and ensured the temp and PH were matching

Fish in tank: two black moors approximately 2” head to tail

Additives: Prime, Seachem Gold Buffer (I have found that one teaspoon for a 50% water change keeps my PH at a steady 7.6),

Food: ProGold, NLS, Respashy, Spirulina flakes, algae disks, peas, blood worms, edamame, sea weed, assorted veggies and shrimp pellets. They get pellets and gel food twice a day (gel in the am and pellets at night, just switched these guys to NLS), peas or edamame twice a week and the rest are provided sparingly as treats (of course, they feel they would like more)

Medication/Treatment History: On July 4th I started with 6 seven day rounds of Prazi with salt at 0.1%. I gradually removed salt once the treatment was complete. One fish was lost in the process.

Unusual Findings:

It started as some “grey” color that looked like excess slime coat on his head. This started about three weeks ago and did not get better, did not get worse. Then, I came home from work last night and it looks like his scales are peeled off and there are two pink humps surrounded by white flakes. No deep sores, no fluffy ness or oozing and it does not seem swollen. He is eating and behaving as he normally does.

Circumstances/ History:

So I have only ever had commons so the fancy goldfish are sort of new to me. I bought three black moors from Petsmart on July 1st. They were placed in a 20 gallon QT and allowed to adjust for a few days. On July 4th I started 6 rounds of Prazi with 0.1% (or 0.01%?) salt (one teaspoon per gallon) per the instructions on the site. I lost one after about two weeks. She got lethargic for a day so I removed her from that tank and put her in a plastic bin and the next day she was dead. No outward signs of illness and she was a little sickly looking when I got her so I was not shocked. The other two seem very heathly, eat well, and are growing rapidly. The one moor has a sort of “double hump” on his head (okay I can only describe it as looking sort of like a butt on his head) since I got him. Maybe he has a little ryukin in him? But the others did not. Three weeks ago I used Kordon water conditioner (brand new) since the petstore was out of Prime. I only used it on this tank since I do water changes on it every other day. I should have tested my PH right after that which is my usual habit (before and after a big water change) but I was in a hurry. The tank is uncycled and is normally a QT tank (that was properly disinfected since its last use.) I caught the crash the very next day after using the Kordon, did a big water change and then switched back to Prime. I always use Gold Buffer (but it did not seem to have an effect when used with the Kordon) and I carefully measure out on level teaspoon when I do a 50% water change and then test PH right after to ensure it is stable. The day after this little mishap, the fish with the hump (I think I am going to name him Klause) had a faint grey film on his hump only. I thought it was due to the PH crash and it looked like excess slime coat. I figured clean water and we would be good. Last night I got home (3am) and the scales had peeled off and the hump is pink looking, like bare skin.) It is not bloody, fuzzy, fluffy, or deep. It looks like the black part was just peeled off. I tested everything and my ammonia was at 2ppm! Yikes! I did a 100% water change and popped them back in the tank with matching PH and temperature. I had 00 across the board for all areas and the PH was 7.6/ High ph 7.8 (this is normal for all my tanks.) His buddy has no signs of illness at all. I have no idea how to treat this or what it could be. I can infer that it is ammonia burn but it started after the PH crash when the ammonia was still 0ppm. I do not know what this would look like on a black fish. How should I be treating him? And should I put his buddy in the big tank and isolate Klause in case it is bacterial? They were both doing so well I was going to put them in their 55 this weekend.

At home I have Goldfish Connections Metro Meds, Jump Start, Kanaplex and Focus, Seachem Paraguard, Goldfish Connection Anti Bac, API Stress coat, Prazi Pro and Melafix (I have not really used any of these but I was stocking up my fish first aid.) Oh, and I have tons of aquarium salt. None of these are in my tank right now as I have no idea how to treat this.

The video is not great I was in a huge hurry. I will try and get some better pictures Also, this is not the same moor in the rest of my library. Thanks!!

http://s1292.photobucket.com/user/mermaidkitten/media/7C4B807C-A453-4DF5-84DE-F2E9F3A0B6B6-3909-0000057044123730_zps71af2ea1.mp4.html

Edited by mermaidkitten

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maya,

Is there anyway to hold him still to get pics, or to take another video with more focus on that part? I'd like to get a better sense of it, if possible. :)

For now, the only recommendation I would have at this time is that instead of doing 50% WC every 2 days, do 100%.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:hug I hope the 100% wc's help a lot. Hopefully something else will be suggested once a dx is made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh no :o Poor thing, I hope he gets better soon~

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maya, I think we need to have a better idea of those wounds. I can't tell if they are infected, or anything, just yet. It's OK. I understand that it's not so easy to get the fish to cooperate.

What I do want you to do is this, until we can get a better sense of things (hopefully very soon).

1. Add 0.3% salt to the water. That's 3 level teaspoons/gallon, or 11.4 grams/gallon.

2. Add 2x Prime daily to detoxify any ammonia you might have.

3. Do 100% WCs every two days.

The next few days will be crucial. If you see more and more white (not fuzzy) over the area, then you know that we are seeing good healing. If you see an ulcer forming, or more red, then we know that have to intervene with something stronger. I'm glad you have everything that you might need, though. So, hang in there. We'll just monitor this closely. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks! I will start the salt tonight (ugh I am still stuck at work so it will be a while) double the prime and up the water change volume. Fortunately he seems completely unscathed by it for now. I will get some better photos as well. Should I take his little buddy out and put him in the other tank that's already up and running or would it be best to treat his buddy as well as a precaution since I am just salting for now? Now that I think about it, i put some "ammonia chips" in the filter a week or two ago (I think they were Aqua Clear) and have since removed them. It was a whim since the tank is uncycled (and I had no intention of letting it cycle since it will be torn down soon) and I have never used that stuff before. Do they max out and then leach ammonia into the tank? I have never had ammonia levels that high on any tank (even with lazy water changes and giant commons) so I am really surprised (and kicking myself in the rear as well!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hindsight is always perfect, and I'm not sure that you did anything wrong. Part of learning about the hobby is to try different things. Sometimes they yield fantastic results, and sometimes we just have to do this :doh11: But they are all learning experiences and what works or does not work with your system. Who knew that Amquel Plus would do that? Not even the Kordon people, but enough people have had this issue now that it's not an isolated thing.

The carbon chips work much like carbon. Once it's full, it stops working, and doesn't release anything back out.

I would leave both in the tank as they are for now, because I'd like the other one to be salted as well. If you can use some pantyhose or something similar, pour the salt in there, tie it up, and hang it in the tank to let it dissolve on its own. It's the most worry free method, and it allows you to slowly raise the salinity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I am salted to 0.02% and will add more tonight which will bring me to 0.03%(which is an increase of about every 12 hours until.) I left the ammonia chips in but I think I will get some new ones just in case. I added a double dose of Prime today and will do a 100% water change tomorrow morning. I took some better photos but it will be a few before I post them. His behavior is normal still and today the sores are now white white and less red is visible. They are not fuzzy or puss filled at all, and are still pretty smooth, I can best describe it as a scabbing but I am not sure if that is really what it is. So, as far as a wound goes, it looks clean and is not getting worse. I hope super clean water and salt will get him all fixed up! He is such a dapper little guy i would hate for him to suffer! (OMG I tried to use a word that described his wound and I accidentally used a graphic word instead and my post was edited! That's awesome!)

Edited by mermaidkitten

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope you meant 0.2% and 0.3%. :rofl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope your fish makes a full recovery! Just wanted to mention that you probably shouldn't use the Ammo-Chips with salt in the water. The salt will release the ammonia from the zeolite (That's how people recharge the media)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope your fish makes a full recovery! Just wanted to mention that you probably shouldn't use the Ammo-Chips with salt in the water. The salt will release the ammonia from the zeolite (That's how people recharge the media)

Good to know! I called my neighbor and she asked me if she needed to feed my dogs. Instead I was like "no, please go take a bag of white rocks out of my filter" and she did it without question! Sweet of her and apparently she already knows I am nuts and did not ask why! Thanks. :) I am sure the dogs got biscuits regardless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Updated Pictures. They are still not the bast but it the pink part under the white is less visible. I can best describe it as less "raw" looking.

P1020262_zps189ee1cb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope you meant 0.2% and 0.3%. :rofl

So you now know that math is totally not my thing! :bingo:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Maya,

Thanks so much for the update pic! That's the pic we needed, and calls for huge change of plans.

He is very much pineconed, and will need Metro-Meds as soon as you are ready. This means that we will also need to remove all salts, as we go forward. I would like to have only him in the tank, and the other out, but I would like to make that recommendation only after we have the same sort of pic taken of him.

We will need to weigh him to get how much MMs to feed.

Hang in there. This is very new and should be very treatable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yikes! I didnt notice that until I looked back at the photo! Okay, I think I will just set up a new QT for tonight. Is it harmful to take them out of the salted water without slowly reducing it? Or can I just swap him right into clean water? I will weigh him tonight too and post back. Do you want a pic of the buddy? Ah! My two jobs are getting in the way of me taking care of my fish!!! I should be home in a few hours and I will get cracking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's absolutely fine to go from salt to no salt. :)

I'd like a similar pic of the other guy too, please. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

aww the poor baby :( I hope you find what is going on and he gets better asap :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay we are salt free and there is no change in pine coming. Still looks the same as he did today so the pic is accurate. The buddy, Kingsley, seemed to be bottom sitting when I got home but perked up after a few. He's never done that before. He has no pine coming but I could not get a good pic ill try tomorrow. Retested the water prior to the water change and I have 0.5 ammonia. The water change n double prime should fix that. They are both 5/8 oz which is up from 1/4 that they were on July 1st. That's not really relevant but what the heck. I'm hesitant with the bottom sitting to put Kingsley in the big tank with the healthy guys now that I saw the bottom sitting. I may go out n get another tank tomorrow so I can separate them for treatment. How many metro pellets would you recommend daily? I assume just for the pine come guy. I can start in the morning. He ate well tonight so I think I won't have a problem getting them in him. Thanks for the help Alex. Now I have to go clean up dog barf from my 17 year old chihuahua my pets are not going to let me sleep tonight I can tell!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I may have them both on metro-meds, actually.

The saddleback lesion is one of the possible manifestations of columnaris, so it is probably necessary to treat them both.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Their weights are approximately 18 grams each, so that's puts them at 7-8 pellets per day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for doing the math for me! Ill start them today. Tey looked pretty good this morning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay we are salt free and there is no change in pine coming. Still looks the same as he did today so the pic is accurate. The buddy, Kingsley, seemed to be bottom sitting when I got home but perked up after a few. He's never done that before. He has no pine coming but I could not get a good pic ill try tomorrow. Retested the water prior to the water change and I have 0.5 ammonia. The water change n double prime should fix that. They are both 5/8 oz which is up from 1/4 that they were on July 1st. That's not really relevant but what the heck. I'm hesitant with the bottom sitting to put Kingsley in the big tank with the healthy guys now that I saw the bottom sitting. I may go out n get another tank tomorrow so I can separate them for treatment. How many metro pellets would you recommend daily? I assume just for the pine come guy. I can start in the morning. He ate well tonight so I think I won't have a problem getting them in him. Thanks for the help Alex. Now I have to go clean up dog barf from my 17 year old chihuahua my pets are not going to let me sleep tonight I can tell!

I hope your fish get to feeling much better after starting on meds. If it's any help with you my dog did a big food barf Thursday morning. She had just ate and I was trying to get out the door when she had puuuuukkkkked. (disgusting)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love it when it's right after they ate ugh...then my little dog tried to zoom in and "clean up" after him....nasty! At least I'm not the only one :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm so I didn't feed anyone this morning because I overslept and bolted out the door. I didn't realize I have medigold and metro meds. Which one do I use? The are both from goldfish connection.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...