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Andrea

Very lethargic betta

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My betta Albus has steadily been getting more lethargic over the past week or so. I didn't really notice and was not worried at first, as I thought he was just a bit lazy and he always came up to me whenever I walked in the room/near the tank. He still had a active appetite too. But since yesterday he is barely coming to the top of the tank and struggled to eat two pellets yesterday, almost like he did not have the energy too. He is now no longer coming to the top of the tank even if I'm standing right next to the tank. He did just eat one pellet. I also just cleaned him out, a 70% water change.

I am not sure what the problem is. He also has fin rot that just won't go away, but I wasn't sure what to do about that, bar keep the water clean. It isn't getting better at all :( Plus now he has very clamped fins.

As I just did the water change, I'll wait a bit and do the water test later tonight. I understand if you can't help me till you get that.

  • Tank information:
  • * Brand of test kit (drops or strips): API
  • * Filter name and size (GPH/LPH) Hailea, 200lph
  • * Additives and conditioners: Prime and I have been adding a bit of Seachem's stress guard in hopes to help heal the fin rot. The water change I just did, I only added Prime.
  • * Water temperature (With or without heater- please specify): Generally around 25-26 celsius. I've seen it fluctuate a bit unfortunately as it gets quite cold over night here and we have a cold house. I've seen it go down to 22 celsius, I'm not sure how to combat this.
  • * Last water change date: Today
  • * Tank size (Gallons or litres): 21 litres
  • * Fish in the tank (species and number): 1
  • * Any new fish added into the tank: No
  • -If Yes: Were they quarantined? -
  • -If Yes: Quarantine period and process (meds added): -
  • * List prior health issues in tank: Brought Albus with fin rot, got a bit better, then worse, then a bit better and now just seems to stay steady.
  • * Medications previously added to the tank: No medications, not even salt.
  • * Medications on hand: Aquarium salt is all I really have.
  • Affected fish information:
    • * Diet- brand and amount/duration of feeding: Atison Betta Food, once or twice a day of 2/3 pellets. Bloodworms or brine shrimp once a week
    • * Any unusual behaviour such as nipping, bottom sitting, etc: All day bottom sitting, occassionally comes to top of the tank and then just sort of floats there. Has clamped fins too
    • * Any unusual findings on fish and in tank: Not that I can see
    • * Affected fish in quarantine or in main tank: Usual tank
    • * Current medications being used on affected fish: None
    • * Previous medications used to treat affected fish: None, unless you count stress guard?
    • * If any, list previous health issues and treatment protocols taken: Just fin rot.
    • * You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.
  • I'm just getting the videos ready now. I'll post them next.
Edited by Andrea

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Hi Andrea,

Is the filter current strong? Or is this dampened? This will not encourage swimming if he is weak and cannot swim well against a current.

When you can, please also get a top view photo of him, and a photo of the damaged fins. You may have to separate him into a container

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It is not, I have the outlet facing into the wall of the tank so it is quite light. I just changed this during the water change though, thinking the heat wasn't cycling through the tank enough and now the outlet is facing down. It is still not super strong, but maybe I should change it back.

Below are some videos I took. The first one is of him of how he acts up the top of the tank over the past 2 days, he had just eaten a pellet. The second is how he has been acting, hiding under or near that log. Sorry about the algae I couldn't clean it as that is where he was during the water change.

I'll see if I can get a top view photo if you would still like.

http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/Andrea-Cronshaw/media/M4V00929_zpsc3e0da14.mp4.html

http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/Andrea-Cronshaw/media/M4V00930_zpsd2b9e69d.mp4.html

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He is very clamped. Yes, please still get a top view photo.

The fins look like they have been bitten off, so I think the issue you have with the fins is just fin nipping rather than rot. Fin rot is usually very easy to stop with just clean water, and occasionally some salt.

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Ah another fin nipper :( I hadn't seen any of similar behaviours to Klaus, my previous fin nipping betta, such as chasing his tails and big chunks appearing all of a sudden so that is why I thought it was rot.

I'm just charging my camera battery as it just died. I'll have it to you as soon as there is a bit of charge in there.

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No problem, yep they can all nip differently. I'm currently treating another betta of my own who is acting exactly the same as yours, but has fin rot. I'll take a photo and show you the difference when I have the chance. Sometimes it's pretty hard to tell. They can literally shred their fins in minutes without you knowing, and that's often what happens.

I'll await params and the photo :)

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For fin nipping or lethargicness? Albus seems to be going down hill fast now.

This is all I can get for now, I'm not sure if I want to disturb him but the video isn't really great :/

http://s1117.photobucket.com/user/Andrea-Cronshaw/media/M4V00933_zps574a9ea8.mp4.html

I don't think he is swollen like dropsy if that is what you are thinking. But I understand you ask for these things for a reason and they are important.

I'm going to have the params to you after dinner.

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do you not have a heater in with him? he won't like the constantly-fluctuating temperature. even if he was kept at a colder temp than he would like (eg. 26ºC because of other inhabitants), at least keeping it constant would be better. I'm sure the fluctuations won't be helping.

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I didn't even notice the missing heater- this will definitely need to be fixed. As Cathface said, the temperatures would not be benefiting his current condition. You can buy relatively cheap 25 watt heaters down at petbarn (blue planet brand) that will work pretty well. I'm pretty sure they're on sale at the moment too. It's getting too cold at the moment to go without heating

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Oh no, I do have a heater which is currently constanly on. I wouldn't not have a heater on in this weather ;) My goldfish tank is currently below 18 degrees so I wouldn't be getting anywhere close to 26 degrees if I didn't have a heater :)

Going to test the water now. He hasn't moved since those photos were taken :(



That is also why I'm not sure how to combat the fluctuating temperatures bar increase/changed the direction of the outlet flow, which I have done.

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Water test results:

Tank-

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 0-5.0 (Not yellow, but not the orange of the 5.0)

PH: 7.6

Tap-

Ammonia: 0

Nitrite: 0

Nitrate: 0

PH: 7.6

Ok so now I'm a bit confused. Albus has moved but he is just trying to bury himself under the log, like he wants to be hidden and away from the light for obvious reasons. My bedroom light that is, not the tank light I left that off today.

So any ideas? I'll try to get a better top view shot tomorrow, for now I will just let him rest. Sorry!

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Maybe stress on him from thkse big water changes? If so, just leave the light off until he comes out and swims around abit.

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Hi Andrea, sorry for the wait in between replies.

I would aim for getting the temperature stable. If it is fluctuating you might need to get a new heater.

As for him, first step will be to get a good temperature, and begin salting the tank to 0.1%. If you've salted him before at this amount, you can go straight up to 0.1%. If not, 0.05% for now, and if all goes well then another 0.05% tomorrow morning to bring you up to 0.1%

Can you get Praziquantel tomorrow?

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I only assumed you didn't have one because of the fluctuating temps... it shouldn't fluctuate that much with a heater in so as Narny as said, I would also suggest getting a better heater.

good luck with treating him, you're in good hands with Narny here. :)

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I got some top view photos but I have to go work now and won't be back till this afternoon. I'll post them this afternoon. He is not very happy and seems to have a bit of a wound on his side or a missing scale. It's hard to tell.

Thanks Narny, could you explain how many teapsoons of salt that is per litre? Or in just in terms like that? I don't really understand the percentages.

I have never used salt with him.

The temperature does just fluctuate on the cold mornings, it didn't last night and has been a steady 26 degrees. But I'll see if I can get a new heater. I think it was fluctuating because of the lack of water flow? I'm not sure.

I won't be able to get prazi today but will tomorrow.

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To get 0.05% add in 10 grams of dissolved salt, and if he is fine in that, add in another 10 grams a few hours later or the following morning to bring you up to 0.1% (1 gram per 1L)

if you are using teaspoons, you can add 2 1/2 tsps per 20L to bring you up to 0.05% and a further 2 1/2 tsps per 20L to bring you up to 0.1%

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Ok, just got home. He is still the same. Should I just add the salt in some dissolved water? Or some other way? I understand the salt needs to be fully dissolved, but do I just say add the 0.05% to a litre of water, but dosed for the whole tank then add that straight into the tank?

Thanks Narny :) Hopefully he pulls through this.

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I only assumed you didn't have one because of the fluctuating temps... it shouldn't fluctuate that much with a heater in so as Narny as said, I would also suggest getting a better heater.

good luck with treating him, you're in good hands with Narny here. :)

No worries, I just didn't want you guys to think I didn't have a heater for my poor betta. Not in my house that is for sure! I'm going to the shops tomorrow :)

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Yep, dissolve separately than add in the tank. You dose for the tank, so dissolve 2 1/2 tsps of salt in something like a small cup of water, let it cool, add some conditioner, then add to the tank :)

Edited by Narny105

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Thank you once again. I'll let you know how it goes. Do you have any ideas of what the actual problem is? I just read your article on betta's, very informative and a great read. I have a big silk plant in the tank, along with some small real plants. But I think I'll make it more planted, even just with silk plants, to turn it more into an adventure/make him feel safer.

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Parasites can hit these guys pretty hard, and that is my initial thought from his behaviour, particularly if they are internal. Regardless, salt and prazi does cover a good amount of ground, so he should hopefully come around. If not, he would have at least had a good treatment and we can look at something else. It's really difficult to rule it down to a cause since literally everything can cause the symptoms he has, but as I said, we are already covering a large ground :)

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Ok thanks, understandable :) I'll get the prazi tomorrow and I'll let you know what I get exactly because I'll need help with that haha.

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No problem! The prazi we can get is called Fluke and Tapeworm Tablets by Blue Planet.

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