Two sick fish

[tarannosaurus 24]

I haven't tested the water since the last WC four days ago. I have to go to work soon so I will test the water later this evening and post all of the parameters.

[bodoba 2,980]

Ok, thank you for taking the extra time to do that! It really helps to make sure the fish heal as best they can

[tarannosaurus 24]

Here is an update on the water parameters:

• Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level(Tank) .25 ppm ??? (This is the first time I see ammonia in my tank!)
  • * Nitrite Level(Tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tank) 25
  • * Ammonia Level(Tap) .1 (I just noticed the tap has ammonia. I must have misread it when I initially tested it.)
  • * Nitrite Level(Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level(Tap) 0
  • * Ph Level, Tank (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7
  • * Ph Level, Tap (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7
  • Other Required Info:
    • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
    • * Water temperature? 68 F
    • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 55 gallons, one and a half years
    • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Fluval 305 and AquaClear 110
    • * How often do you change the water and how much? Weekly, at least 50%

• * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Four days ago, 100%
• * How many fish in the tank and their size? Three
• * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
• * What do you feed your fish and how often? ProGold, daily
• * Any new fish added to the tank? No
• * Any medications added to the tank? Prazi Pro, Epsom salt and Metro-Meds fed to two of the fish
• * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. (Please review thread)
• * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Bloody streaks, frayed fins, red sores, red bulge (Please review thread)
• * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Bottom-sitting (Please review thread)

I am really concerned about the ammonia now.

[bodoba 2,980]

Thank you very much for the info!

I think while your fish are sick you may need to increase your water changes until your cycle handles the ammonia.

Sick fish are sensitive to poor water quality so the red fins may be from that.

Would you be alright testing your ammonia level daily and doing water changes as needed? Is there any medication right now that you need to be concerned about water changes with?

[tarannosaurus 24]

I can do more water changes. Why does my tank have ammonia in it if there are no nitrites and nitrates are present?

I'm not concerned about anything else. I'll continue to add epsom salt and prazi with each water change and post the parameters each time. I'm separately feeding the two sick orandas Metro-Meds and the other one is getting peas. Does that sound right?

Should I take the big guy out of the tank and put him in quarantine with the other sick oranda?

[bodoba 2,980]

I think they should stay separately quarantined just in case their illnesses are different.

Are you following the 5 day round or 7 day round prazi routine?

If you have never had ammonia in your tap and you do now, that would be where the ammonia is coming from.

You also could've gotten a cycle bump from either the move or the second filter. At least we know about it now so it won't throw us off guard

[tarannosaurus 24]

Hmm I'm not sure which I am following. I have used prazi just the few times that I mentioned in this thread. I added epsom and prazi only when it was suggested.

[bodoba 2,980]

A. FIVE DAY ROUNDS
Day 1: Big WC (>50%), add Prazi. Make sure salt is at the appropriate concentration. This is the beginning of Round 1.
Day 5: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 1.
Day 6: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 2.
Day 10: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 2.
Day 11: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 3.
Day 15: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 3.
Day 16: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 4.
Day 20: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 4.
Day 21: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 5.
Day 25: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 5.
Day 26: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 6.
Day 30: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 6.

Here is the 5 day round schedule. Since you are not using regular salt, you can ignore the salt directions.

[tarannosaurus 24]

Okay ignoring the salt part in these instructions but still adding epsom after each WC?

[bodoba 2,980]

You add epsom for the first 8 days of treating with MM's.

So day 1 - 8 you would be replacing the epsom to a concentration of 1/4 tsp. (That's why 50% water changes are easy cause you can just half the dose instead of guessing)

After 8 days of epsom you repost pics of your fish and we reevaluate

[tarannosaurus 24]

Alright sounds good.

[koko 14,340]

great job

[tarannosaurus 24]

I tested the water again today and the ammonia is at .25 ppm and nitrates are at 30 ppm. I will do a water change either today or tomorrow.

Is there something I can add to the water to get rid of the ammonia when I do water changes since the tap has ammonia?

[koko 14,340]

do you have amquel or prime?

[tarannosaurus 24]

I use Prime but it doesn't look like it is removing the ammonia. I use Prime with every WC.

[bodoba 2,980]

Prime doesn't remove the ammonia. It detoxifies it into a safer form. It will still show up on the test kit but it will be converted to a safer form for your fish if you follow the instuctions on the bottle.

[fantailfan1 26,742]

Prime will detoxify up to 1 ppm ammonia for approximately 24 hours. So if your tap has 0.25 ppm ammonia, it should not stress your fish. Your BBs will get to the point where they convert that over rather quickly and in the meantime, the Prime will keep it in a less toxic form as Una said.

[tarannosaurus 24]

So the .25 I'm getting on my test isn't really the ammonia level in the tank? My last WC was about a week ago and I'm still getting the .25. I would have thought the BB should have converted that by now. Also the tap ammonia is .1. Why is the ammonia higher in my tank? This is what I'm worried about.

[bodoba 2,980]

It takes a while for BB's to establish. If you are using prime, the 0.25 will be safe for the fish to be in.

The ammonia is the waste produced from the fish from either the digestive process or from breathing. Eventually your BB's will be able to process this ammonia. In the interim you use Prime to keep the ammonia safe for the fish to live in while it's available for the BB's to eat and expand their numbers

How are your fish doing?

[tarannosaurus 24]

Hey I did a large water change this morning and I just tested the water. Ammonia is 0.1, nitrites are 0 and nitrates are 15. I added Epsom salt and Prazi Pro.

The big guy still bottom sits sometimes. His dorsal fin looks a little depressed but the red streaks look much better. He still has that bulge on his wen but it's not really red anymore. I can see a couple more red places inside the wen. They look how the bulge looked before it was a bulge. His appetite is good. He's been eating all of his Metro-Meds.

The small oranda is still in quarantine. She looks much better. Her eyes are no longer popping and her scales are back to normal. Appetite is good. She's also been getting the Metro-Meds.

The telescope appears to be totally fine now, but I have been feeding him peas for the floating.

[bodoba 2,980]

I'm glad to hear they are on the mend. What day of epsom are you on?

[tarannosaurus 24]

This is the eighth day that epsom salt is in the tank, yesterday was the second time I added it.

[bodoba 2,980]

Ok so after today you can remove the epsom and continue on without it

[tarannosaurus 24]

The big oranda is developing another bulge in his wen. The original bulge is on the right side of his wen and the new one is on the left side. The new one is very red.

http://s1324.photobucket.com/user/tarannosaurus/media/For%20Koko/20130618_170939_zps34d0bfd1.mp4.html

What's happening here?

The other oranda seems to be doing much better. No more eye-popping or pineconing. When can I put her back in the tank?

[tarannosaurus 24]

Here is a close-up of his head. He also has a red spot on his cheek.

http://i1324.photobucket.com/albums/u613/tarannosaurus/For%20Koko/20130618_2347321_zps91742c5e.jpg