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Gf In Very Bad Shape


Guest G3nna

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Guest G3nna

hello, i am new to this site and desperatly need advise. I have 2 gf and have had them for 5 years they have always been very healthy. 1 fish is 9" long and the other 11" long. They lived in a 10gal tank for a year then I moved them to a 20gal tank where they have lived for the past 4 years, 2 weeks ago I got them a 55gal tank (thought they would be happier in a bigger tank) for the first week they hid out at the bottom of the tank and when ever i would turn the light on they would dart around the tank like crazy so i turned it off very quickly and they would stop. that is always how they would act in there other tank whenever i would clean it and do a water change but only for a few days then they would be fine and act nomal again. I have never once in all the years i have had them checked the ph level or the nitrate level or anything like that that i have been reading about on here today. I never knew i had to. Well what i need advise on is my fish are bleeding almost everywhere there tails are ripping away, scales are falling off. they are swimming around crazy and slamming into everything in the tank and hurting themselfs. I think they are going to die, and i'm doing everything i can to save them. I've been using melafix for about two weeks i think its making it worse so i stopped using it. i did a 40% water change yesterday, today i put in stress coat, and bought a test kit everything was normal except the nitrite was 5.0. They are eating the same as usual gf flakes and pellets. Most of the time they stay in the corner then all of a sudden they will swim up then back down real hard and slam into the bottom of the tank and into each other and anything they can and then back to the bottom and into the corner again. I would appreciate any advise. thanks so much.

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Guest tooterfish

alright

the nitrite level is very high.

you want to keep it below 2 while your tanks is "cycling"

first thing... change water, (equal temperature, with declorinator **stresscoat is one**)

test again, still high? change water

test,

nitrites will suffocate them.. they cannot breath.. they want to get out.. **swim fast, looking for air, they'll even jump if it gets too bad**

start there...

then relax.

and read about the cycle of a tank.

**side note** you said other levels were fine... ammonia should be below 1 when cycling.. 0 is what you are going for.. if ammonia is high the water changes will bring this down too...

eventually the nitrites will come back down too, but for now you have to change the water to keep them low.

welcome, there's so much info here.... it's so wonderful -Tooter

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Guest tooterfish

there are other things going on in the tank...

the fins, scales, etc,

we can address them after...

but please.. water first..

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Guest G3nna
alright

the nitrite level is very high.

you want to keep it below 2 while your tanks is "cycling"

first thing... change water, (equal temperature, with declorinator **stresscoat is one**)

test again, still high? change water

test,

nitrites will suffocate them.. they cannot breath.. they want to get out.. **swim fast, looking for air, they'll even jump if it gets too bad**

start there...

then relax.

and read about the cycle of a tank.

**side note** you said other levels were fine... ammonia should be below 1 when cycling.. 0 is what you are going for.. if ammonia is high the water changes will bring this down too...

eventually the nitrites will come back down too, but for now you have to change the water to keep them low.

welcome, there's so much info here.... it's so wonderful -Tooter

I just did a 30% water change my fish were right there as i was pouring the fresh water in(they were glad to have the fresh water) I just did the test again and its still in the 5.o range. Should i do another water change tonight? and also should i add more stress coat? thanks for the help.

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Guest tooterfish

its late, but yes,

get them down,

how about a 50% this time? just water change... no vac (maybe this wount seem quite so bad then?) i hope you dont have to lug upstairs or anything.

bigger, will get more out, and lower them faster

remember that they will rise again until the Nitrates take over, so you want to check them tomorrow too.

They will definately feel better.

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Guest tooterfish

i'm always forgetting something,

yes add stresscoat every time..

it has a de-clorinator and chloramine neutralizer, which are toxic to fish.

i have a 7in comet... i cant wait til he's 11inches hee

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Guest susong

Yeah...it sounds to me as if your new tank is not fully cycled...here's a brief explanation of the cycle which even I understood....

!) Fish give off ammonia wastes, causing ammonia levels to climb

2)Nitr*i*tes will form to break down ammonia.

Then Nitrite levels will climb

3)Nitr*a*tes will form to remove the Nitr*i*tes

Then Nitr*a*te levels will climb.

When your tank is new, there are no nitrites yet to break down the ammonia, so we have to remove it manually (water changes) untill the nitrite levels rise sufficiently.

Then we remove the nitrites (water changes) until the nitrates come along.

Then we are forever removing nitrates! :P (water changes)

For the first two weeks of a tank's cycle, the ammonia and nitrite will keep rising.

During the second two weeks, they start to fall. Eventually you'll see no ammonia and nitrites when you test, only nitrates.

So keep up those water changes hun...sounds like your tank is nearly cycled, then you can reduce the water changes to about 30% weekly.

Congrats on buying them a bigger home! Once it's all settled, they'll really enjoy it, I'm sure.

Let us know how the water parameters go, then we'll help you out with the other stuff...**little secret** half the problems fish experience can be solved by keeping the water at it's optimum!!

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Guest G3nna

After the second water change last night the nitrite was 2.0, Then again today was back to about 5.0. I just did another 50% water change and added the stress coat and tested again and its at 0.50. I will keep testing. I'm still very concerned about the blood spots, my bigger fish is bleeding around his fins, on his tail and a big spot on his belly. my smaller fish has blood spots all over his body and also on his tail and around the fins. Is there a certain kind of meds i should put in? or wait till after the cycle is over? Thanks again

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Guest tooterfish

its going to be alot of work, but you do want to get those nitrites down.

i have read that adding salt to the tank can help with the nitrites.(aquarium salt or non-caking, and NOT epson)

I have never personally added salt to my tank, but it does have medicinal purposes and can help protect the fishes gills against nitrites.

I'll do a search and cut and past in the next post for the salt percentage and procedure.

this may help their appearance. but the lower you can keep the nitrites.. 2 or under, will be helpful.

you may have to test, 3 times a day to check the level, it can spike quickly,

checking it more often and changing water accordingly may help keep them in check.

i go search on the salt now.

-Toot

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Guest tooterfish

hi g3nna - my computer searching is very slow (congested?)

i am still looking for the correct salt treatment

but i had a thought..

if you still have your 20gal tank.

rinse it out, and fill it with clean declor temp matched water

and move your fish into there.,

just to get them out of the toxic water.

youwill have to keep them clean, by watching the ammonia very carefully,

but it will give them a chance to rest, and to breathe (nitrites suffocate)

then you wont have to worry about the ... higher nitrites, the 55 can spkie all it wants without doing more damage,,

i still think salt may help... but maybe 20 gals will be easier to handle than the 55..

keep us posted. i'm really trying.

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  • Regular Member

Salt is definetely a good thing to get into that tank right about now. It doesn't help with the nitrites itself, but it will ease the effects they have on the fishes gills. 1 tablespoon per 5 gl of water is efficient enough and gets you up to 0.1%. Use rock salt, aquarium salt or solar salt, not cooking salt. The solar salt has one more advantage, it replenishes minerals that the fish might have lost. I think the Morton solar salt in the blue bag is the one you need to look for at a home improvement store...

Good luck with your fish! You are halfway there with the cycling!!

One more idea...Can you put some filter media from you 20 gl tank and put it into the new filter? That would speed along the process, since your old filter media already is covered with good bacteria, which the new filter is in the process of building!!

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Guest G3nna

I'm going to get the salt today. Is it ok to add salt and ick meds at the same time? Also when i had the 20gal tank set up i was using a filter that fits a 40-60gal tank so i am using that same filter for the 55gal. I nolonger have the 20gal tank or i would put them back in that till the other cycles.

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Guest tooterfish

hi g3nna, how are they looking today.

so no 20 gal,

how about a rubbermaid storage container? you might already have one in your home, with summer clothes or other things in them.. some are 28-32 gals and bigger

as long as no chems where kept in it (paint, mothballs, etc.)

you could rinse it out well, and fill that.

i've read that the lip of the containers can hold a hanging filter. if you dont have another filter (keep your one on the cycling tank) at least use an airstone for water movement and oxygen.

i'm really hoping your fish pull through.

if you use a container, try to figure its gallon capacity,

that will help in medicating

i think that medicating them is going to be important, but the medicine works best in good water.

if you can move them, hold off on the salt. (i cannot remember what happens when mixing salt and meds)

a treatment of Maracyn i and II (10day treatment) will help to heal any bacterial infections, (or simillar med) for infection

after treatment of antibiotic, melafix can help in the tail splitting

antibiotics can affect a cycle, but if you have them in a container, you wont have to worry about that.

let us know -Toot

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Guest tooterfish

oh, g3nna :(

i was hoping they were at least not getting worse.

i feel so bad that they are being stressed.

Keep your chin up. Maybe someone can offer other suggestions.

i dont know about "silver scaled"

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  • Regular Member

Salt can be used to treat ich. Plus, it will help a little with

the fin problems. The big thing is to keep up on the water

changes to bring the water params back into check.

Here are some other tips on handling ich.

To deal with ich you'll want to get a heater and raise the temp

to around 80*f. Make sure to have adaquate aeration in the

tank when doing this. Higher temps equal lower oxygen levels

in the water. Then you'll want to turn off the light on the tank

and cover the whole tank with a towel or blanket. On every

3rd day you'll want to gravel vacuum the bottom of the tank

to remove any dormant ich particles in the gravel.

Add salt to a total of 3 tsps per

gallon in increments of 1 tsp per gallon every 12 hours.

Use any salt which does NOT have anti-caking agents in it.

Dissolve it first in a container with a little tank water

before pouring it in.

Remember when doing water changes to add enough salt

for the amount of water that was removed. With the water

changes use water closely matching the tank temp and add

a dechlorinator appropriate for the amount of new water going

into the tank.

Keep up the treatment until the fish has been completely

ich-free for at least 6 days (which might well

take a couple of weeks)

Keep us posted on how things develop. :)

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Guest tooterfish

g3nna,

i keep hoping for an update.

i'm hoping your fish are pulling through,

am just posting to let you know i've been thinking of you and your fish.

-Tooter

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Guest G3nna

Hello-I didn't realize that there was a page 2, so i didn't think there was anymore replies. Yesterday my fish looked terrible they didn't move from there corner for almost 2 days. Today they do look alot better. The reason i asked if they were siver scaled fish is because i got some meds called super ich plus its made by aquatronics, its said not to use on silver scaled fish but i really dont think they are so i put it in, i also got the salt but didn't use it because you said you weren't sure if i should use them both. Anyways after i used the ich meds it seemed to make them worse i left it in till the next day then yesterday i changed half the water and this morning they do look better alot of the blood spots are gone i couldn't believe it. but they are still looking very rugged there tails are still ripping away. Now that i cleaned out the ich meds should i start putting the salt in and also can i use the salt without using a heater? i'm going to look today but i'm not sure i can afford a heater. Should i get them the ROMET B medicated food? cause from what i read it sounds like they have an antibacterial infection because of the bleeding and the roof of there mouthes are dark red. thankyou thankyou thankyou -Gina-

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Guest G3nna

Just wanted to add that my 8 year old won our first fish at the fair. never even imagined we would have him this long, then when he wanted to get him a friend i took a feeder fish from my sister(we saved him) he wasen't even an inch long. we have had them a long time my son will be heart broken if they dont pull through.

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Guest tooterfish

how are you doing with the water levels?

are they starting to level off? nitrites and ammonia?

i have never used those particular meds or even salt.

so i cannot answer on them.

i am thinking positive thoughts for you :) -Tooter

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Guest G3nna

ammonia has always been 0. nitrite is at 0.25. is that good? considering it was 5.0 a week ago. also i have a pic i can send but dont know how.

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  • Regular Member

You can email the pic to me and I'll be happy to put it up for

ya! Include your username with the pic, so I don't mix it

up with some other thing. paul_myers94@charter.net

The nitrites are doing much better. Keep working on the

water changes to deal with it, your shooting for 0.

The reason for turning the temp up is: it helps boost the fish's

immune system and it speeds up the life cycle of ich.

How are the nitrAtes and ph level?

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Guest tooterfish

the nitrites at .25 are wonderful, if they can remain low (keep testing them)

then your tank is almost done cycling (yeah!)

the nitrates are the last thing that happens in a cycled tank. These are removed by water changes. There is no other way to keep them in check.

Nitrates are less toxic to the fish, but still cause problems with higher levels.

most keepers, with weekly changes, keep their nitrates at about 20ppm

i'm so glad they have made it through that rough ride.

any yes, you'll want to look into treatment for their other ailments.

try them one at a time. though and if using Medications, you'll want to take out the carbon, if you have that in your filter.

some medications do affect the good-biobugs, so keep testing all your water params (ammonia, nitrites)

your pH has remained stable. it is am inportant part of the water, but you do not want to start playing with your water chemistry.

just like in humans, make sure you finish all their medicine dosages, even if you see an improvemt. :)

keep me posted.. i'd love to see pix.. even if they are a bit ragged at the moment.

-Toot

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