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Red streaks in fins and bottom sitting


Wen73

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    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level (tank): 0
  • * Nitrite Level (tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level (Tank) 5
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap):0
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level (Tap) somewhere between 0 and 5
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.0
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8.0
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Eheim 2217 cannister, aquaone nautilus 1400 cannister and one sponge
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * Water temperature? 27 C
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? currently once week 50%, was doing 25% x 2

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? yesterday 50%
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 78 gallons - 1 week but it is an upgraded tank with filters moved over
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? pearscale and oranda 3 inches body length, black moore and ranchu - small
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? spinach, hikari daily, occasioanl gel food, occasional blood worms and brine shrimp
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Treated previous tank with triple sulphur
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.)
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? oranda has dilated blood vessels in tail and bloody streaks
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Some bottom sitting and letharge
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. One round of prazi, pearsclae was treated with injectabile baytril as per fish vets instructions
  • * You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.

Hi, Thanks in advance for people'

s help.

I have an oranda who developed red streaks in his fins about 2-3 weeks ago. Initially they were mild and I tried extra water changes to no effect. I was having trouble holding the nitrate which had been sitting at 20 but was sometimes spiking up to 40 ppm. I then tried treating with triple sulphur 6 days, which did not improve the streaks. Last Sunday I had a bad ammonia spike of 1.0 ppm and the fish were not happy. I added Prime, which helped a little and bought a new tank and filter that day. I have upgraded from a 40 gallon to a 78 gallon and added an extra cannister filter with 3 L of good quality media. The eheim and sponge filter were moved over from the other tank. Because of the high ammonia I put completely fresh temperature matched water into the new tank. I have tested ammonia and nitrite daily this week and they have stayed at 0.

After a couple of days in the new tank my oranda seemed much more like his old self and was zooming around again. Then yesterday he seemed a bit lethargic again. Water parameters were good but I thought I would do a water change anyway. I don't have a python so I caught the fish and put them in a large bucket. I drained the tank using a new garden hose bought for this purpose, filled it up and added a kettle of boiling water to temperature match exactly. I then added prime - two capfuls which treats 200 gallons and stirred the water around and waited 5 minutes. Our water has a lot of chlorine in it, so I always use double, in this case slightly more.

When I put the fish back in the oranda seemed a bit stressed. I gave them some food to distract him which he ate. then he did something really odd. He sat on his fins and then rolled over on his side and lay there. I thought he'd dropped dead. After 30 seconds to a minute he righted himself and swam off. All the other fish were fine. He has been swimming normally ever since, but has been bottom sitting a bit and just doesn't seem as vigorous as he used to be.

I have done one round of prazi with these fish. My pearlscale was unwell 6 or so weeks ago (just generally lethargy and hiding) and I went to the vet who prescribed a course of baytril injections. It didn't do anything but the fish has recovered on her own. Anyway, the vet recommended discontinuing the prazi until the pearlscale was well, which is why I only did one round.

I was going to restart but then my oranda got the red streaks in his fins and I wanted to deal with that first, since the one round of prazi really seemed to bother him and I didn't want to add to his stress if he had a bacterial infection.

So, he has been yawning a bit (flukes, the ammonia spike?), is less vigorous and bottom sitting sometimes. No fin clamping. His fins have dilated blood vessels and red streaks.

I have prazi on hand and more baytril but no aquarium salt (it's hard to find around here - my LFS don't have it and neither does the supermarket).

Sorry I can't post a video right now.

Thanks in advance for suggestions.

Just wanted to add I am in Australia so do not have access to metro meds etc. Could soak pellets in the baytril if needed. I find injections rather stressful and so do the fish!

Edited by Wen73
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I'll try. For now I have added an extra dose of prime. I'm paranoid that somehow all of the chloramine wasn't neutralised somehow.

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If Alex or any of the other mods recommend aquarium salt and you are unable to find it in your LFS or other appropriate salts at the supermarket, check out the post in the 'Aussie' part of this forum which has many links to online aquarium stores which most sell aquarium salt :)

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Thanks. Do you think the red streaks are infection? Any suggestions on how much baytril I should try and get him to eat? He's a 45 gram fish.

And can I start the prazi without salt? I'm working 12 hour shifts for the next 6 days so I won't be able to track down salt until next Sunday (unless I can find it online but it will probably still be 3-5 days to get it).

Thanks again

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If you are feeding Baytril, then you won't really need the salt. As for how much, you are just going to soak a specified amount with blood worms, although pellets would work too. In the event of pellets, you want to soak them and then let them dry again before feeding. How much Baytril do you have?

It does look like septicemia to me, although not really bad.

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I've got 5 ml of baytril - it's for injections but my friend who is a vet said it should be fine to feed as well. Do you happen to know what an appropriate daily dose of baytril might be? The injection was 100th of a ml every 48 hours. The serum concentration will be less fed orally however, and I think it would probably be better fed every 24 hours.

Should I give the antibiotics a few days before starting the prazi?

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I would start Baytril 2-3 days first, and then Prazi.

The dose is 1 mg for every 100 grams of fish daily, so it's half that for your fish. The treatment time is 10 days. I would not go longer than that, because Baytril is quite potent.

(The dosage I posted above IS the oral formulation, btw.)

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Just wanted to update this thread and seek further advice.

I've fed oral baytril in pellets for 5 days. The red streaks are just the same - have not got better. For a few days I thought my fish was perkier and more active though.

However, since yesterday I feel he is looking fatter. And he seems a bit off. No pineconeing yet, belly doesn't feel squishy but I have that sinking feeling......

So, 1) is the baytril causing renal failure in which case should I stop?

2) is the baytril not working/not working fast enough and infection is spreading to the kidney's ? In which case I can continue and just hope for the best

3) this will potentially turn into dropsy for a cause unrelated to above

I am in Australia so have run out of antibiotic options and cannot get metronidazole, so will have to euthanaise the fish if that does eventuate.

PS> Please don't ask for a photo/vodeo now - I've just worked a 12 hour shift and don't have the energy and it wouldn't show anything to someone who doesn't know the fish anyway. I simply want to decide on whether to continue with the baytril and was wondering if it can cause renal failure.

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Without a pic, it's really hard to say whether to continue the Baytril or not. Do you think you can take some top view pics tomorrow, or whenever you are able?

There are people in Australia who can get metro, so it's definitely possible. What is your email?

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Alex, I might be able to take photos tomorrow if I don't get called back into work as I'm on remote call tomorrow. However, my main question is really whether baytril can cause renal failure - if it can I think I would be best to hold off for now and see what happens over the next few days.

In terms of the red streaks - they are still there. In terms of the fish looking fatter - a photo won't help anyone else other than me in that regard, because it's a subtle shift that comes from knowing the fish. It is not obvious, and as yet there is no pineconing.

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Getting fat isn't necessarily bad, but I hope that there are enough of us here who have some experience looking at bloated fish, that we can spot early development.

The Baytril most definitely can cause renal failure, but the problem is that if you stop to soon, you may risk developing resistance of Baytril. I am just presenting the pro/con as you make the decision, because I don't have have a way to gauge the situation right now.

The red streaks probably won't go away for some time, and they may be permanent.

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