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Sarahanne1984

Lice or something even more serious? i'm at a loss, help!

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    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level (tank):0
  • * Nitrite Level (tank)0
  • * Nitrate level (Tank)15ppm
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap):.5 (im assuming tap is askng about the tap water right?)
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level (Tap) 20ppm
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 8 to 8.2 (i keep it there for my snails)
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) high 6 to 7
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? api drops
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? 1500 gph pump and 42 gallon custom sump, after filter media 650gph flows back into the tank. nitrate reactor, UV sterilizer mechanical and biological in the sump and bags of crushed oyster shell and coral for my snails shells and to keep the ph stable. and a 370 gph canister.
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? API stress coat, Pondcare salt, Rescue Pond Start chloramine chlorine nitrite and municipal ammonia remover. occasionally API leafzone.
  • * Water temperature? 69-71F room temp no heater
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? 50% every 10 days. or when daily tests warrent

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? yesterday 50%
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 40 gallon 16x16x36 tank (i keep 38 in it) and 42 gallon sump. total water volume is kept at 80 gallons exactly. the tank and filter media has been running about 4 years since the last time it was emptied and moved. the sump was added 3 weeks ago. now that the fish are getting bigger i thought more water volume would be better.
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2; 3 inch lionheads. 4; 3 inch orandas, 5 japanese trapdoor snails. lots of plants.
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? hikari sinking wheat germ once a day alternating with hikari sinking lionhead once a day, once a week hikari tubifex worms, every other week i feed smooshed de-shelled peas and skip a day of feeding after the peas. i just make sure i see each fish eat a couple pellets. i always read things that make me think i feed too much or too little so i dont know anymore about that. am i starving them to death?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? yes, one, i have a feeling it has caused the problem... 1 inch red cap oranda
  • * Any medications added to the tank? melafix with the adition of the new fish
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) never had a problem in 10 years of goldfish and koi keeping
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? on the new fish red cap i now believe the funny coloring on his tail was lice, one of my other fish had a lice a week after he has a little spot of greenish coloring on his tail and a torn tail
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? another fish who has never had any problems at all suddenly died, and the new fish has times its swimming like normal and other times he looks paralized just drifting around bumping into things or laying on side on the bottom or top of the tank, hes in a bucket by himself now.
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.: i keep salt in the tank all the time 1 tbsp per 10 gallons. i treated with melafix for a week when i got the red cap due to that his tail was a little torn.
  • * You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.

heres what happened... i saw this cute little guy at a big box store and i of all people should have known better! i could just shoot myself... i special order my goldfish from a breeder that guarentees health etc... but he was so cute... i will Never do it again and from now on i will ALWAYS quarantine .. anyways; he is all white with the red cap he is little like an inch, he had these tiny greenish markings on his tail that i didnt really think was anything.. but i had never seen what a disease looks like before, and his tail was a little torn, and i thought no big deal, a little melafix and it will heal up. he was in with flat bodied goldfish at the store so i figured he'd just been munched on. i treated with melafix for a week everything seemed fine for a week, then i did a 50% waterchange and added carbon to the filter to get rid of the meds,( i dont normally use carbon, its all lots of bio and a little mechanical and UV),,, the tail healed some of the way, the green coloring went away i thought maybe it had been an infection but now i think it was arugulus lice. because about a week later, this past saturday night, i saw a HUGE lice covered by a green blob on the tail of another larger fish, my panda. so i got online and did research and saw it was a lice and did the "paper towel method" to remove it, it didnt leave any marks behind as it was only there for an hour or two. then i got online and ordred some ProForm LA. i havent seen any more lice, and the fish arent rubbing on things or anything, and the fish it was on seems fine with no sores or anything . but i should still treat the tank right? the proform LA isnt here yet as i ordered it saturday night after hours but it should be here tomorrow or the next day. all the fish still seemed normal, then last night (monday night), my black oranda who was always healthy and has never had any problems suddenly within an hour is drifting slowly around the tank bumping into things like he is paralyzed gills and mouth are moving but fins and tail are not, but the fins didnt seem clamped or held close to the body, then he rights himself and swims and acts normally, then the drifting around again and then he just stopped breathing (gill function and mouth movements ended), this took place in about 2 hours from starting to drift to death. after the first time he was drifting and then righted himself i did a 50% water change because it was all i could think to do at the time, everyone else is acting normally. but after the water change he was fine for about another 30 minutes then did the drifting thing again and died. i did notice that like 3 days ago he did have some poop that had an air bubble in it and i had never seen that before, then today tuesday, the new (and sick?) redcap started hiding this morning, and now he is doing the paralyzed drifting and then swimming normally back and forth. i have scooped him out into a big bucket of tank water as with him being so small when he is doing the drifting thing he may get sucked into the pump and at this point i just want him away from my (seemingly) healthy fish. is this what lice does? or is this something else? all my other fish and snails are acting normal atleast for now. could my fish have lice inside their bodies that i cant see? any opinions would be great i have never had a goldfish die before or any disease. my current fish in this setup are about 5 years old all spawned at the same place the same season except the new red cap. ive kept aquariums for 17 years and goldfish and koi for 10 and have never seen a disease or parasite before, my fish except for the dead one and the sickly redcap who is now out of the tank seem fine but im afraid that theres something going on i cant see or test for, or if what happened to the black one will now happen to the others, and ideas for prevention? should i put the redcap back in the tank when i treat with the proform LA or treat him seporatly if he is still alive when it gets here? he is just laying in the bottom of the bucket on his side, mouth and gills moving, if i pick up the bucket or move the water he rights himself and swims around for a while and then he starts laying there and drifting around again. thank you

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Hello. I'm sorry that you are having issues, although I see that you've dealt with the critical problems. :)

Here are some of my thoughts:

1. Do not put the sick fish back together in the main tank. It's not worth the cross-contamination.

2. I don't think that treatment with Pro-Form is necessary. Lice are pretty easily identifiable, and I would rather pick them off than to treat, actually. You may need to, if there are many, but it doesn't seem to be the case.

3. You MAY want to salt the tank, and treat for flukes. I think it's safe to say that if the new fish came with lice, there are probably other external parasites.

I'd love to see your set up at some point. :)

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thanks for the response ! what does flukes look like? or what is it? how do fish act when they have it? i hate to treat for stuff with medications because i do have snails and live plants and also a 17 year old striped raphael catfish in there i forgot to mention who i believe is considered a scale-less fish. i always forget that fellow is in there he hides all day. and also a huge colony of snails besides the ornamental ones that live in the tank that live in the sump that would be impossible to pick them all out. i got the proform LA because its safe for snails plants and scaless fish as well as koi and goldfish, it kills lice and anchor worm, and a few people have said it killed their ich, but i havent seen any anchor worm or ick or anymore lice yet as i said, i dont know if theres eggs or larvae something in the tank though. like my thing says above i keep salt in the tank all the time, how much more salt would be safe to add? heres what my setup looks like; the box behind the tank is the sump the water drains through the plants at the top back into the tank. its made of wood and covered with chemically inert liquid rubber pond coating inside.

564305_10152708335040487_377252036_n.jpg528452_10152708335080487_1500397952_n.jpg

Edited by Sarahanne1984

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theres already 8 tbsp of salt in there, forgot to ad that in.

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i read the thing about flukes here on kokos, they dont have any of the signs of it. of either type. are flukes invisible or can you see them?

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i read the thing about flukes here on kokos, they dont have any of the signs of it. of either type. are flukes invisible or can you see them?

They are not invisible, but require the aid of a microscope to see them. :)

I think given all that you've said, it might be judicious to assume a watch and see stance for now. :)

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well now i am thinking about using some prazi. i read lots about it and it says you can use it as a preventative and as treatment and some people use it once a year just because. and its supposed to be safe for everything in my tank.. atleast the brand i am looking at, liquid prazipro, even says its safe for snails. so i am thinking about using some just in case. and its cheap enough 6 bucks for the one dose id need. as compared to the $20 pr0form LA i ordered in a panic. i may just treat for both for good measure since theyre both supposed to be okay for everything in the tank.. of course not mixing them. was gona look for some today and if i dont find any order some. unless anyone thinks thats a really bad idea. ive never used much medication beyond melafix/teatree oil.

update: the little redcap died over the night, as i expected. the poor thing lived such a short and miserable live and took down another beautiful innocent animal with him. i swear places like that shouldnt be allowed to sell fish or any animals especially since the staff doesnt know how to take care of them. grr. from now on im sticking with Buygoldfishonline.com :) ive always had the best luck with them and the most beautiful healthy fish. their shipping is a little outrageous, especially since over night isnt even available to my area, it takes 3 days weather you pay for over night or not. but other than that theyre great!

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I have no problems at all supporting Prazi treatment. :)

I'm sorry your fish passed. I agree that there are many less than scrupulous sellers out there.

Good luck, and keep us updated!

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now today ive discovered the new 1500 gph waterfall pump ive been using is making the water hot! its the only explanation i can think of, its like 85-89 degrees in there and my house is 70. i'm thinking of switching to two smaller 710 gph pumps as soon as i can. im thinking that will be quieter and cooler? in the mean time ive got to get the cash together, but in the mean time of that im not sure if i should go with a cooler temperature and less filtration gph, i can go down to my 370, but after the filtration it only puts out about 100gph by itself. or if i should let it be warmer and have higher filtration for about 3 weeks until i get paid again. how hot can goldfish have temporarily? i'll probably have t0 get on a different thread for this new problem!

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You can get a pump for very cheaply at Harbor Freight :)

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You might not want to use Prazi with snails. A member here recently almost lost her snails because of the prazi/salt combo that is recommended here. You can always remove the snails to a separate container during treatment. :twocents

Edited by ChelseaM

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yeah when i treat i will probably take out the japanese snails just to be safe. and the ones that live in the sump will just have to tough it out or not, i wont be able to find them all. we dont have harbor freight here but i will check out their website online and see what i can come up with. otherwise i found a place online i can get 710gph pumps at about $26 each and i was gona get two. i really only really want about 800 gph total and my sump only causes a pump to loose about 33 gph so i might get 2 420GPH's and have it done quicker. i'm hoping that the smaller pumps, the kind in the black square casing will run cooler ( and quieter- not that thats the important thing right now) do you think my fish are in serious danger at this temperature?

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The temp is a little high, but well within range of what goldfish are able to handle. I'd still switch to a smaller pump, though :)

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yeah i emptied out my old canister filter and am using that to power the tank and sump for now. it isnt enough gph for permanent but the heat was freaking me out. my water parameters are still good. i was afraid of ammonia with the heat or low ph or something because the water got cloudy from the heat and things were starting to get a clear slimy coat on them, on the tank and the pump im guessing that was algae n stuff growing from the heat. but everything's still good and the water is very slowly cooling off and the fish still seem fine, my calico oranda i am starting to think could have fluke though he is gasping at the surface occasionally or eating bubbles/hungry from fast digestion from the heat i'm not sure, and then air bubbles comes out his gills. i really dont want him doing it because he does get swim bladder problems on the rare occasion hes the reason i switched to all sinking foods. i'm not sure if it could be fluke or a reaction from the heat and less oxygen in the water from it. i run a huge pond air pump and there are 4; 14" airstones in the tank and a hydor ario4 that is intermittent with the lights. everyone else seems to be getting enough O2.. he also seems like he might be swimming against things like rubbing, but it could be my imagination, i think i'm becoming a fish hypochondriac by proxy :-p i did order a dose of prazipro, so we'll try it just to be safe.

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We're all fish hypochondriacs to some extent! :rofl

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temp is back down to only 1 or 2 deg above room. water is now crystal clear again as usual, perams are the same, nitrate was slightly elivated but i realized it was because i forgot to turn my nitrate reactor back on after moving pumps and things around so that should go back down by tonight or tomorrow. everyone is acting normal again including the calico that was gulping air. :) hopefully whatever was going on is now over, but i'm still gonna worm them for good measure when it all gets here. at least with the liquid prazipro. i might not use the proform LA, but i will save it for when i quarantine in the future! thanks for all your help and input!

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