Speckle needs help :(

[kiwikacey 219]

Hi everyone. This is an update from my last post about Pickle, who was gasping for air at the surface of the tank (which is still cycling). Alex advised that I add salt, making a 0.1% solution. I have been doing this for about a week now, and it seemed to help a lot at first. Now, however, it seems like the salt isn't helping as much and Pickle is still gasping. Buttons and Speckle are a little jumpy at times, yawn a lot, and sometimes clamp their fins - though not extremely tightly.

I really want this cycle to just establish itself already Does anyone have any advice on how I can make it easier for them? I get the feeling it has to be cycled soon...please help!

Here's my params:

Test Results for the Following:
• * Ammonia Level (tank): 0.25ppm
  
• * Nitrite Level (tank): 2.0ppm
  
• * Nitrate level (Tank): Between 0ppm and 5ppm
  
• * Ph Level, (Tank): 7.4
  Other Required Info:
  
• * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API drops
  
• * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aquaclear 70
  
• * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  
• * Water temperature? 74F
  
• * How often do you change the water and how much? Daily, 80%
  

• * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today, 80%
  
• * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 30gallons, 2 months
  
• * How many fish in the tank and their size? 3, less than 3 inches each
  
• * What do you feed your fish and how often? Saki-Hikari pellets (daily), repashy soilent green (2x a week), green peas (daily/every other day), hikari frozen bloodworms (2x a week), hikari freeze dried brine shrimp (2x a week); usually feed very small meals 3-4x daily
  
• * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  
• * Any medications added to the tank? No
  
• * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) SBD; Speckle had septicemia
  
• * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? No
  
• * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Gasping at surface, slight clamping, occasional jumpiness, yawning
  
• * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. Speckle: maracyn 2, for septicemia, 1wk treatment; salt is the only other thing I've used, x1wk
  

Edited April 13, 2013 by kiwikacey

[fantailfan1 26,742]

You may need to bump up your water changes, as crazy as that sounds. Once nitrites appear, they spike quickly and stay high. The best way to combat them is large water changes. It looks like in your case one 80% change isn't cutting it. Did you test your nitrites after the water change? I'd be interested to know where they are now.

[jmetzger72 6,976]

I would do water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrate down. Have you treated for flukes? The yawning and clamped fins makes me wonder. PS-Nice diet!

[jmetzger72 6,976]

I would do water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrate down. Have you treated for flukes? The yawning and clamped fins makes me wonder. PS-Nice diet!

oops, I meant nitrite.

[kiwikacey 219]

You may need to bump up your water changes, as crazy as that sounds. Once nitrites appear, they spike quickly and stay high. The best way to combat them is large water changes. It looks like in your case one 80% change isn't cutting it. Did you test your nitrites after the water change? I'd be interested to know where they are now.

I changed the water about 3 hours ago - they're actually lower than they have been (usually off the charts!). I can't seem to ever get them to zero lately - even RIGHT after a water change, they're usually somewhere around 0.50ppm

I would do water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrate down. Have you treated for flukes? The yawning and clamped fins makes me wonder. PS-Nice diet!

I have never treated for flukes - I wanted to wait until the tank had cycled before doing something like that....does it matter?

[fantailfan1 26,742]

Can you please test your tap water for ammonia, nitrites, nitrates and pH?

[dnalex 13,633]

Yes, the important point here is that salt helps, but you still need to do water changes more often.

Nitrite effects take quite a while to recover. Try to keep nitrites lower than 0.5 ppm at all times.

[jmetzger72 6,976]

Yes, the important point here is that salt helps, but you still need to do water changes more often.

Nitrite effects take quite a while to recover. Try to keep nitrites lower than 0.5 ppm at all times.

Alex, do you think she should treat for flukes? The yawning made me wonder.

[jmetzger72 6,976]

You may need to bump up your water changes, as crazy as that sounds. Once nitrites appear, they spike quickly and stay high. The best way to combat them is large water changes. It looks like in your case one 80% change isn't cutting it. Did you test your nitrites after the water change? I'd be interested to know where they are now.

I changed the water about 3 hours ago - they're actually lower than they have been (usually off the charts!). I can't seem to ever get them to zero lately - even RIGHT after a water change, they're usually somewhere around 0.50ppm

I would do water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrate down. Have you treated for flukes? The yawning and clamped fins makes me wonder. PS-Nice diet!

I have never treated for flukes - I wanted to wait until the tank had cycled before doing something like that....does it matter?

Are these new fish? I usually treat all new fish for flukes. Prazi doesn't affect the cycle and is fine with 0.1% salt.

[jmetzger72 6,976]

The other thing that occurred to me is feeding during this critical stage. You might want to pull back to one or two feedings per day until your cycle has completed.

[Moucho+Moncho 402]

You may need to bump up your water changes, as crazy as that sounds. Once nitrites appear, they spike quickly and stay high. The best way to combat them is large water changes. It looks like in your case one 80% change isn't cutting it. Did you test your nitrites after the water change? I'd be interested to know where they are now.

I changed the water about 3 hours ago - they're actually lower than they have been (usually off the charts!). I can't seem to ever get them to zero lately - even RIGHT after a water change, they're usually somewhere around 0.50ppm

I would do water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrate down. Have you treated for flukes? The yawning and clamped fins makes me wonder. PS-Nice diet!

I have never treated for flukes - I wanted to wait until the tank had cycled before doing something like that....does it matter?

My nitrites did this and stayed that way for 2 months. All I did was weekly 90% water changes and got that down. But my fish were not sick so it might not work.

[dnalex 13,633]

You may need to bump up your water changes, as crazy as that sounds. Once nitrites appear, they spike quickly and stay high. The best way to combat them is large water changes. It looks like in your case one 80% change isn't cutting it. Did you test your nitrites after the water change? I'd be interested to know where they are now.

I changed the water about 3 hours ago - they're actually lower than they have been (usually off the charts!). I can't seem to ever get them to zero lately - even RIGHT after a water change, they're usually somewhere around 0.50ppm

I would do water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrate down. Have you treated for flukes? The yawning and clamped fins makes me wonder. PS-Nice diet!

I have never treated for flukes - I wanted to wait until the tank had cycled before doing something like that....does it matter?

My nitrites did this and stayed that way for 2 months. All I did was weekly 90% water changes and got that down. But my fish were not sick so it might not work.

It's fine for you because the fish wasn't sick, but this is clearly not the case. I'm not sure how this is helpful in this context.

Treating for flukes might be good to do, but not when nitrites are at this level. What is important is frequent water changes, to minimize levels.

[kiwikacey 219]

Tap values:

Ammonia: 0.50ppm (this is news to me! that means I must have some BBs....if it's lower in the tank??)

Nitrite: 0ppm

Nitrate: 0ppm

pH: 8.8

[kiwikacey 219]

Sorry - I just did another water change. Thanks for all the help! I have some prazi pro, but didn't want to treat with such high nitrites. They were new fish 3 months ago (in an ill-suited tank... I had no idea what I was doing) and as far as I know, have never been treated for flukes.

[kiwikacey 219]

I will try and pull back on feedings as well, maybe that will help.

[fantailfan1 26,742]

Your tap pH is 8.8? That's high and quite a difference from your tank pH. Are you aging your water at all when you do the water changes or directly from the tap to the tank?

And, yes, I would definitely cut back on food.

Edited April 13, 2013 by fantailfan1

[kiwikacey 219]

Your tap pH is 8.8? That's high and quite a difference from your tank pH. Are you aging your water at all when you do the water changes or directly from the tap to the tank?

I am adding the water directly from tap to tank. I'm on city water - not sure if that affects things. I've known this about the pH for a while, and I'm not sure why exactly it's so much different in the tank, but it consistently is.

Edit: I'd like to add - I use a python siphon and I really have no way to age water...I'm in a dorm and I only have so much space available to me for storage

Edited April 13, 2013 by kiwikacey

[dnalex 13,633]

Will you check on the gills for me? What do they look like?

[kiwikacey 219]

Will you check on the gills for me? What do they look like?

Gills are all red (that was fun getting a clear look at!...) but Speckle's are a little bit "receded" looking, and she seems to have a very "squooshy" abdomen. Almost like there's an air pocket in it...way at the back towards her tail and only on the left side. Buttons has breeding stars and has been chasing her around....could this be indicative of eggs? If not....what does it mean?

[dnalex 13,633]

That mushiness at that location is normal, and yes, she might have eggs.

Let's try to keep nitrites below 0.5ppm at all times please, even with salt.

[kiwikacey 219]

Okay, will do....and hopefully the tank will cycle soon!

I didn't notice mushiness on the others, and I know Buttons is male. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't indicative of a larger problem.

Thank you so much for all your help - I really don't know what I'd do without all you great people here at Kokos.

[jmetzger72 6,976]

Your tap pH is 8.8? That's high and quite a difference from your tank pH. Are you aging your water at all when you do the water changes or directly from the tap to the tank?

I am adding the water directly from tap to tank. I'm on city water - not sure if that affects things. I've known this about the pH for a while, and I'm not sure why exactly it's so much different in the tank, but it consistently is.

Edit: I'd like to add - I use a python siphon and I really have no way to age water...I'm in a dorm and I only have so much space available to me for storage

You're probably ok. Fish can go from a lower PH to a higher PH more easily than the other way around. My tap PH is similar to yours and I don't have any problems. FYI: Certain things such as driftwood and Amquel can lower the PH of your tankwater.

[dnalex 13,633]

I think that for now and until we get better data, we can only say that Amquel when used in high doses can lower the pH. There is no evidence that the pH is lowered when it's used as per recommendation. Koko has been using this for a while now, and has not seen that.

Update us tomorrow, please.

[kiwikacey 219]

Hi everyone! Update for today:

Pickle looks a bit better post-WC and isn't hanging around near the top as much. Buttons has appeared fine this whole time, and nothing is new there. Speckle is still clamping and yawning - when she yawns, she sticks all her fins up, almost like she's "stretching."

Just wondering....how low do nitrites have to be before I can think about treating for flukes?

All water (pre-WC) values are the same as yesterday.

[kiwikacey 219]

Just came back to add...

As the day goes on, Speckle's clamping appears to be getting worse. She's mostly staying still now, though she's hungry and gets excited when I go near the tank. I checked her gills and one side has a tiny black fleck in it - almost like a spot. The other side is clear, beet red, a little receded looking. There's no white/grey.

Neither of the others are displaying this behavior.

EDIT: In addition, she's having thin whitish poops....though about half of the poop is the same color as her food. The other half is very abnormal. I'm really starting to worry...the last time she looked like this was when she got really sick

Edited April 13, 2013 by kiwikacey