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Daniel E.

Parasitic infection of the mouth

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This forum is for goldfish in need of help or just general disease discussion.

Please copy & paste fill the following form and fill it out to the best of your ability when requesting help for Goldfish Problems:

Test Results for the Following:

  • * Ammonia Level (tank): 0
  • * Nitrite Level (tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level (Tank) 0
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap): .25
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level (Tap) 0
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.6 (don’t have test for the rest right noe)
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.8

Other Required Info:

  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API freshwater master test kit
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aqueon 20, Tetra 10-20
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? None
  • * Water temperature? 68 degree F
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? Every other day 20-25%

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Yesterday 50%
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 15 gal. 3-4 months, about 3 weeks with goldfish
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 Body 2 inch long 3 inch total
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? 2-3 times a day TeraFin Gold fish Crisps, API premium pellets (sinking)-after sokeing, also vegies every day.
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? The 2 three weeks ago give or tank a day or two.
  • * Any medications added to the tank? NO
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) NONE
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Worm like parasites in mouth
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Sitting on the bottom some but ten goes back to normal activity. Flexes mouth in and out that’s when parasites are noticed
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. NONE
  • * You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video. I will try shortly

I have noticed that my Ryukin goldfish seem to have paracitic worms that come partly out of their mouth when they flex their mouth when and shortly after eating. No other signs of sickness have persinted their self except the red ryunkin started sitting on the bottom some after seeming to fight with the parasites in its mouth for a little while. Now seems to be back to normal in behavior though. What might these parasites be and how do i fix the problem?

Thank you all for whatever help you can give.

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i cant get a pic but something that i just saw is the she is laying on the bottom with what would be its chin on the ground. and then she flexes her mouth a few times runs around the tank really quick and stops again. she was not doing this at least not bad enough for me to notice untill today. I cant get a pic of the worms or parasites whatever they are. but i can discribe them at least what i have saw of them. they go back in her mouth when she closes it and seem to ba attached somewhat back in the mouth. what comes out that i can see is white flat and small. what comes out id say is about 2-2.5 mm long and about 1 mm wide. how big the full thing is i do not know. her mouth is so small and she seems to stay turned around i cat get a look back into it. Like i said i think the male also has some but not as many. Im 40 min from the closest petstore so if there is anything i need or could use just let me know and ill run out and get it.

ps. sorry about spelling im not the best at it and in a bit of a panick right now.

thought id post this back over here

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Daniel,

I am not able to pay complete attention to this thread at the moment, but I will return to it later.

See if you can pull the worm gently from the mouth of the fish, and then take a pic.

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never heard of that. if it's a cure I just got some medi gold and metro med. I ordered the 12oz bags so I have plenty. I live in Sparta Illinois (southern Illinois) not sure how far that is from Irwin probably pretty far though. let me know I can mail you some ?

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They are so small i dont know if i can without hurting the fish.

i did take a video. its hard to see them and my camra is not the best. but at about 35 sec it get one shot that you can see them

http://s1325.photobucket.com/user/daniel-e-1990/media/20130327195539_zps69890403.mp4.html

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They are back to just laying on the bottom again. not moving at all just breathing hard.

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Can you hold them? If you could hold one and then take a video of it opening and closing its mouth maybe we could see it? I just shared this pic of my fish on another thread, but this is how I hold mine, it is a bit easier when the fish are big.

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh545/alliH08/2013-03-26232742.jpg

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They are still semi wild I’m working on that but right now no I can’t just hold them they are just now getting to where they don’t run when I put my hand in the water. Also it’s not every time they open their mouth I’ve been watching them close and its only happens every once in a while when they (mainly the one red one) try to push something out of their mouth really hard, like trying to spit up something. In the normal mouth movements even extending all the way I can see them. Like they may be deep inside. Their mouth is only about 1/4 of an inch if that so I can’t see much on the inside. Sometimes they seem .like nothing is wrong swimming like normal looking for food etc. then mainly tthe red one will just stop sink to the bottom and just sit there and not move at all. She seems to do this right after the feeding when she has the most problem with whatever this is. I have added a snail I had forgotten about that and the new plant from the outside pond. I did not qt the snail like I should have :( but I did sterilize the plant with bleach. Like demonstrated in tithras youtube video. So I don’t think it would be anything from there.

Dad says it’s nothing but I don’t think it’s right.

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Oh it sounds like something, just don't ask me what. I avoid D&D like the plague, too much of a Hypochondriac. :rofl Good luck!

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Daniel, could what you're seeing be a white, cotton(ish) like strand, still attached to the inside of the mouth, but moves like it wants to be spat out with every inhale, exhale of water?

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Or is it flat, like it's wider than it is tall?

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Daniel, could what you're seeing be a white, cotton(ish) like strand, still attached to the inside of the mouth, but moves like it wants to be spat out with every inhale, exhale of water?

It does act like it is attached to the inside of the mouth and moves like it wants to be spat out but not with ever inhale and echale of water. It only does when it acts like it is trying to regurgatate something, like food or sand. As for how it looks they are small flat white almost transparent. there also looks to be 4 or 5 of them sometimes.

Or is it flat, like it's wider than it is tall?

its more flat. they dont seem to have a lot of mass to them or thickness i guess i should say but they look to be about 1 mm wide maybe alittle smaller and 2 mm long when they come out.

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can you get the values for the KH & GH?

also, are you using plant fertilizers and or algae controlling treatments?

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I can get GH with some older strip tests i have but not KH right now.

plant fertilizers no. I did use an algae controlling drop at one point in that tank but that was before i added the goldfish.

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The algae control i did use was. Tatra Algae Control (broad spectrum algae control)

and the GH is soft 75 ppm

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ok, i am suspecting that this is not parasitic such as worms or visible parasites.

i suspect either the effects of chemicals such as algae products that are known to affect the parameters such as KH & GH which can cause problems to goldfish. how long ago was it that you used these products?

are you able to strengthen the GH & KH by adding crushed coral to the filter(s)?

i am still supporting treatments for parasites, more for flukes than worms.. so prazi routine is favourable right now.

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ok, i am suspecting that this is not parasitic such as worms or visible parasites.

i suspect either the effects of chemicals such as algae products that are known to affect the parameters such as KH & GH which can cause problems to goldfish. how long ago was it that you used these products?

are you able to strengthen the GH & KH by adding crushed coral to the filter(s)?

i am still supporting treatments for parasites, more for flukes than worms.. so prazi routine is favourable right now.

i can look for the crushed coral would i find that at petsmart?

as for the chemicals its been a month or better since i have used it and i only used it a few times. ive probably changed all the water since i have used it though. ive done 10 or 12. 25-50% watter changes. My waters natural GH is the 75 ppm.

But if you do not think it is a visiable parasite what is it that i am seeing? Do you think it is part of the inside of the gf mouth that has been torn or something like that?

ill also look and see if they have something to do a KH test with while i am there.

Edited by Daniel E.

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although i cannot see what you're seeing from the video you posted, i can safely say, that if it were parasite that is visible to the eye, even in a blurry video like that, we would see something.

yes, you should be able to get crushed coral from the LPS and some LFS's. i would be going down there with a sample of your tank water and asking them to check it also.. just in case there is anything different with your test kits. please do ask them to use a drops test kit and write the actual values down. see if they compare to your results.. make sure they test KH & GH too.

so, to me, i am not suspecting the kind of parasite we would normally see in a scenario like you discribe. i also do not see any concern for fungus or disease like columnaris, but i do see fin clamping indicating something like flukes, but not releated to the mouth issue. so, prazi course may as well begin.

i also suspect that your tank is larger than 15 gallons. can we get the actual dimensions of it? HxWxL?

lastly, when you change water, do you vacuum the gravel well? i would like to see a photo of your entire tank.

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it is 16x10.5x20 inch.

I have not vacumed the gravle at all bc it is a fine sand and goes right through the line if i try. :(

Also i was getting ready to change to a new tank when i got it set up it is a 75 gal. 23x18x23 i think.

its not the best pic and i had stirred up some debris when done a watter change 50% that day

20130325132944_zps7ab7e9e4.jpg

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Yep, that's 15 gallons.

(The 75 gallon is 48x18x21 BTW)

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well, i think not vacuuming the gravel is very dangerous.

issues like trapped food from just fish foraging and mixing the food under the surface of the gravel bed can cause decaying and toxic gas build up. i think it would be wise to get yourself a nice size container and an airpump to put the fish into so that you can give a thorough clean out of the gravel.

you will need to stir it up as much as possible after the fish have been put aside so that you can get as much grit out of it as you can.

sometimes, water maggots can grow too. i had a family of them grow under the driftwood in my tank because i didn't clean under it frequently enough.. although feeding off these is more protein than problem, it still is an indication that my maintenence lacked somewhat.

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Yep, that's 15 gallons.

(The 75 gallon is 48x18x21 BTW)

oops typo i ment 48x18x23 lol they said it was an 80 when i get it but i thought it was a 75. its 75 or 80 lol

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well, i think not vacuuming the gravel is very dangerous.

issues like trapped food from just fish foraging and mixing the food under the surface of the gravel bed can cause decaying and toxic gas build up. i think it would be wise to get yourself a nice size container and an airpump to put the fish into so that you can give a thorough clean out of the gravel.

you will need to stir it up as much as possible after the fish have been put aside so that you can get as much grit out of it as you can.

sometimes, water maggots can grow too. i had a family of them grow under the driftwood in my tank because i didn't clean under it frequently enough.. although feeding off these is more protein than problem, it still is an indication that my maintenence lacked somewhat.

I was going to go with something dif in my new tank that i could bc i did not like not being able to either. i even thought about doing without anything on the bottom but i like something to be there. I did do what you said before i added the gf though but that was some 3-4 weeks ago

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my tanks are barebottoms, but if you don't like that, there's no reason why with a regular syphoning routine, you can't keep that gravel clean. you aren't the first to be using sand, so i am sure that there are many others who can help you overcome the problem you are experiencing at the time of cleaning,.

i hear one tip is to cover the intake tube during cleaning so that sand particles do not enter the filter as this can cause damage.. there are other tips members have shared. as a non sand user, i cannot make many recommendations, this is why i suggest the removal of the fish and then a nice, thorough clean.

i would get cracking on that as soon as possible. it is very much a health hazard with every forage.

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To clean sand I hold the vac about 1/4 inch above the sand and it sucks up the fish poo and any debris. Since you haven't cleaned it in a while I would follow Helen's advice and remove the fish and then do a thorough cleaning of the sand bed. If you do pick some sand up with the vac you can always rinse it under some tap water and put it back in the tank. Once things are under control you should try and churn up the sand bed regularly so that the food and debris can get caught by the filter. This will also ensure that you don't get any bacterial pockets caught under the sand. This needs to be done every few days with goldies. :rolleyes:

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