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what is this? sore?


cathys

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PRAZIQUANTEL PROTOCOLS

I started the seven day round on the 75 gal. On day two should I do a water change or just add another dose of prazi?

A. SEVEN DAY ROUNDS

Day 1: Big WC (>50%), add Prazi. Make sure salt is at the appropriate concentration. This is the beginning of Round 1.

Day 2: Add another dose of Prazi. We routinely double dose with Prazi for the first round in this protocol.

Day 5: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 1.

Day 8: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 2.

Day 12: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 2.

Day 15: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 3.

Day 19: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 3.

Day 22: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 4.

Day 26: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 4.

Day 29: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 5.

Day 33: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 5.

Day 36: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, and add Prazi. This is the start of Round 6.

Day 40: Big WC (>50%), replace salt, but do not add Prazi. This is the end of Round 6.

on day 2 it doesn't say to do a water change ? no water change day 2?

Edited by cathys
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ok last question. can you do MM while doing above 7 day schedule?

Yes, of course, although you will be done with the MMs course long before the Prazi is done. Let me know when it's been 14 days of MMs. You might have to go longer, depending on that sore and how well it's healed, but I don't anticipate it being longer than 21 days.

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how long does it normally take for something like this to heal? I think it's been two weeks. I also noticed she has red streakes in her tail. how long do those usually take to heal?

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She should have been showing signs of healing over by now, although it may take longer for the wound to completely heal over. How is she doing? The red streaks are likely from the meds. Let's evaluate to see if we can stop them yet.

Btw, congratulations on your 6 year anniversary here! :)

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She should have been showing signs of healing over by now, although it may take longer for the wound to completely heal over. How is she doing? The red streaks are likely from the meds. Let's evaluate to see if we can stop them yet.

Btw, congratulations on your 6 year anniversary here! :)

better than it was i'll try and get a pic and post today. thanks had no idea it had been 6 years. I believe I joined then wasn't on for a few years.

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I stopped the meds and brought salt down to .2% . does the sore have to be completely gone before I put her back in the main tank?

I took her off the meds and took salt down to .2%. should the sore be completely gone before she goes back in the main tank? how long does it usually take?

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Do you have an updated pic of the wound, please?

I don't have any objections to moving the fish back when there is still some healing left to do, BUT such an open wound is a great attractant for other fish to nibble and bite.

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i'll just keep her in the qt for now. I was just wondering how long something like that takes to completely heal. if it's going to be a long time i'm going to get something bigger than the 10 gal. i'm having to change the water 100% twice a day. the ammonia goes up to at least a 1.0ppm in 6 hours. also the water seems to get cloudy if I don't rinse out the media every time. I guess since it's been two plus weeks maybe bacteria blooms. not sure. I posted a pic a couple comments above from the 7th. the link is super tiny. it hasn't changed much since then. she still had the red streaks in her tail so that's the main reason I stopped the meds.

Edited by cathys
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update: I've been keeping my girl in the 10 gal changing water x 2 a day due to ammonia up to 1.0 after 6 hours. she has been really stressed out. I've had her on the kitchen counter so that's part of it and the other part is my continuous problem with ph ups and downs. tested the tap water and today it's a 6.8. haven't tested in awhile. it's usually 7.5 to 7.8 but due to farmers fields and addition of chemicals etc the water parameters fluctuate sometimes dramatically. as I've said before up to top of chart for ammonia which is 8.0. so I thought her sore was improving but as of last post I don't believe it's gotten any better and today it appears she's developing another one near the one she already has. later today or tomorrow I will get the tap and tank water readings. I just purchased a 90 liter sterilite container and moved her to that. it was due to this move I tested the tap water. I tested her qt water for ph to compare to tap and wah wah wah...it crashed again. was a yellow which is bottom of chart ! I've been adding baking soda when I change the water but can't remember if I forgot to add it last night or what. So I'm in a quandary here. Do I put her back on the metro meds? do I start up something new? I also have medi gold, coppersafe, melafix, fungus and parasite meds. Should I start up the salt again? Should I give her more time? I moved her to the basement in a quieter area away from the kitchen activity. Got her in a bigger qt container so I would only be putting her through one change a day.

Edited by cathys
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i'll get a video today. charging the battery for my camera now. not sure how helpful it'll be since she's in a sterilite and it's kind of frosted. I hate to take her out and move her since she's been so stressed. I'll do one though this afternoon and get it posted.

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video one. note...about 1/2 through maybe more than 1/2 look at gills looks like inside is coming out ???? weird what is that?

video two will check back later to see what you all think. sorry thought i only posted the link then when i hit post it's embedded. Edited by cathys
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Were you feeding during the video? That could explain the stuff coming out of the gills.

I have to say that while the healing is slower that I'd like, it is healing and remarkably clean (does not look infected). I'd keep on doing this for a while longer. I don't think he's ready to go back to the main tank.

How is everything today? Sorry I was away for the weekend.

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you need to get away ! i'd be worn out dealing with all the problems on this site !!! We sure appreciate the help though !! I just threw couple pellets of food in there to get her moving around. it looks like a flap of skin(if you'd call it that) coming out of her gill. i'm not up on fish anatomy so it may be nothing. I'm glad the wound looks good to you I have never had a fish with one. She's doing ok. She wouldn't hardly swim around when I was filming. after I loaded the videos and went back down she was swimming all around. My tap water ammonia is up to 2.0 ppm now so it's getting more complicated. since the filter isn't cycled and there's a limit to how much amquel plus or prime I can add...what do I do? i'll be adding ammonia into her container. i'm afraid it being spring the ammonia may shoot up to 8.0 like it did in the fall. The guy at the LFS said to age the water and the ammonia would evaporate out. is that true? i'm doubtful. I bought another sterilite container same size but it'll only age 24 hours as i'm changing daily. I guess I could buy a couple more.

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Hello everyone,

I just would like to give some ideas. I haven’t read all 8 pages but would like to give some ideas which hopefully doesn’t interfere with Kokos protocol and sorry if lots have been said already.

Firstly with this Ammonia issue in the quarantine tank the poor fish is so stressed out that it can only harm him instead of helping him healing. If a fish is so compromised there is not much left for him, being strong enough to fight. I see further issues coming if he stays in this situation. His water changes are stressing him out, the ph is fluctuating far too much, I doubt he will handle it much longer. And he is such a darling!!!!

The stuff that’s hanging out of his gill is it translucent? Might be a bit of membrane coming from his gills? I had this on a Congo Tetra and Rainbowfish before, never found out why that happened nor did it seem to cause issues. It was just like that all of a sudden.

Are you on well or city water? I am a bit dumbfounded that it is even legal in your area to have such high Ammonia. You said it can even go up to 8ppm? Are you using liquid test kits for all tests and your test kits are not expired? I usually don’t use any bottles longer than a bit over a year once opened.

I reckon your best bet whilst Ammonia is that high is ordering in bulk spring water and use that for your water changes. A cheaper alternative might be RO water but you would need to treat that water with baking soda, calcium and magnesium. I can give you the doses if needed.

It is wrong from your pet shop saying Ammonia will get out after aging. Prime or Amquel will bind toxic Ammonia (NH3) for up to 24 to 48 hours. The idea is that by then your biological filtration has converted it. But with Ammonia of 8 that would be an issue. Keep in mind that with a ph under 7 your toxic Ammonia will be less or even hardly toxic and it will increase the higher the ph. Whilst your fish are safer in an acidic ph and high ammonia, the “good” bacteria wont thrive in an acidic ph so ideally GF and good bacteria need alkaline water. Your mistake was when you put your mature filter in cold water. Bacteria must be acclimatized as much as fish. Large difference in ph and temp will cause a die off. Also, I dont recommend mixing age water with hot and cold water out of tap if your hot water comes from a hot storage unit. It will be very high in heavy metals and we dont really know if that high concentration will be binded by your dechlorinator. I have a heater in my age storage tank...

What I actually would like you to do is aging a bucket of tap water and aerate it with an air stone to get CO2 out. Use only your dechlorinator. Test ph, kh and gh (liquid test kits) once filled, then 12 hours later and so on for few days. Write down numbers and post back. Although the water will react differently in an environment that has fish in it you will still get an idea. I can imagine that your tap water is so high in organics naturally that this may be one reason for such a quick reduction of your buffer (kh). To me it sounds your water is evil and you may want to consider a long term alternative to your tap. Do you drink your tap? If not, what you don’t drink yourself, you don’t want to use for your fish either.

Another alternative would be to age your change water for 5 days or so, you ll need to check it yourself and run a filter with polyfilter from Biomarine. That will take out Ammonia, organics etc. but it wont be cheap really as the polyfilter needs to be replaced rather quickly.

Here is a calculation I always use to determine the swings with a water change if needed.

Say you do a water change of 80%.

20% of water in your tank has a ph of 6.6

80% of change water has a ph of 7.8

20 x 6.6 divided by 100= 1.32

80 x 7.8 divided by 100= 6.24

6.24 + 1.32 = 7.56 ph after the water change.

You do that with everything. KH

20% kh of 0 20 x0 / 100 = 0

80% kh of 125.3 (1gdh = 17.9, your kh is 7gdh) 80 x 7 / 100= 5.6

0+ 5.6 = 5.6 kh after water change.

So you do need to buffer your change water with baking soda no matter what. To get a kh of 8 in your tank you need to add baking soda to your 80% change water. I personally don’t like to add baking soda straight into the tank as you don’t have the power to control the swings. A ph should not swing more than 0.4ppm a day and if it constantly goes up and down it’s a nightmare for fish. So I add it to aged water to have the control.

This link will help you to figure out how much baking soda you need depending on your water volume. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/calKH.asp

Another helpful link, tho Koko might have something similar? http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html

It may be overwhelming for you right now but once in mind its easy and I am happy to help you to calculate if you give me numbers of liters of gal or whatever you desire!

I would get your fish out of this quarantine disaster and like Alex said a divider is a good option if others are picking on him. In my opinion he needs a time out of water quality issues.

Once you tested your water in a bucket and you get a better idea what your future plan is on your tap water we get a better picture to sort that issue out!?

Regards,

Silke

Edited by Silke
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