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Fish Grooming


Mikey

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Mikey, if your fish is still young and at a growing stage, you gotta stuff them. :clapping: Try to get them very high nutrient foods, like bloodworms where you can feed in 4-8 small meals a day. This promotes growth the most, although water is also a major component. It's best to keep the water very clean by siphoning out derbris every other day and if you can - put them in green water. LASTLY, make sure your tank is big and well enough deep. Deep water = deeper body and better curve - which are major components (although tail curve isn't important if it's not a ranchu lol)

All of these are major points of grooming.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weird things I've heard about grooming:

- massaging the fishes fin everyday to straighten fins (ex: weak dorsal on Oranda) (I know some who did and claim to have some success with it but I read that years ago)

- putting Tosaskin in small triangular?? (or was it round?) bowls w/ airstone and shallow water to promote the "tail flip". (round =))

- Putting a needle in a Bubble Eye's bubble and taking/putting fluid in - to even out both bubble sizes (This is a first for me but I do know that some use a needle to take out fluid/air in regards to the swim bladder though o.o)

- putting TVR in shallow ponds w/ airstone only - promotes flowerlike tail and buffalo futan (Other factors are involved with the tail development like the amount of fish but shallow water is key and the futan is all about the diet nothing to do with the shallow water)

^^^^^^^ NEVER try the things on the weird list if you cannot maintain water quality/have no fish handling experience! Personally I don't recomend doing either of those.

Most of what you said is pretty sound but I would change a few things in regards to the grooming. 8 would be excessive but 4-5 would be good when their age 0-3 months, 3M-1year 3-4, 1-3years 3, 3years+ less feeding as they age beyond that point. Siphoning with clear water is fine but I would just do a 100% water change after 3 days or something but for green water it's a big no no unless it's time to change the water. Water levels does play a role in developing certain characteristic in a fish but not really in the tail tuck or deeper body aspect. Though at the end of the day it's all about the genetics and if they were stunted or not before you bought them.

Although the bit about tosakins is true, some people do that, I would be very interested to know where you got this information. No offense given, but being 14, Im guessing this information was not developed first hand. What are your sources?

Green water is difficult to maintain in an aquarium and/or is for the experiences hobbyist. Its usually used outside in tubs or ponds and not generally recommended for inside.

Deeper water does not always equal a deeper body. Parent fish have more to do with that than water depth. Putting a needle in a bubble eyes sac will do nothing except allow a passage way for bacterial infections and irritation to the fish. Tail tucks do matter on breeds besides ranchu, such as oranda and lionhead. So does a smooth back. Mikey is buying small fish of pet store quality and not showing them.

Please don't recommend dangerous procedures such as these. They can kill fish.

I don't think he would be able to give sources publicly considering the rules here, could ask him to pm it to you.

I think green water is easy to maintain just getting it is hard depending on how you go about it.

Also standards differ but traditionally lion heads should have straight backs with zero to little tail tuck

I wouldn't go trying to get green water indoors either. While it can be beneficial, fish react differently to it. Some get all of the fantastic growth and color, like my ryukins, and orandas, while some have a hard time dealing with it, like my lionheads. You can never really know, but you can get similar growth and color results with blood worms and food high in algae (: just be sure that if any of your fish get floaty to avoid giving them too much high protein foods.

I rather curious about your green water, do you mind sharing your process? (how green is it, when do you change, etc.)

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Mikey, if your fish is still young and at a growing stage, you gotta stuff them. :clapping: Try to get them very high nutrient foods, like bloodworms where you can feed in 4-8 small meals a day. This promotes growth the most, although water is also a major component. It's best to keep the water very clean by siphoning out derbris every other day and if you can - put them in green water. LASTLY, make sure your tank is big and well enough deep. Deep water = deeper body and better curve - which are major components (although tail curve isn't important if it's not a ranchu lol)

All of these are major points of grooming.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Weird things I've heard about grooming:

- massaging the fishes fin everyday to straighten fins (ex: weak dorsal on Oranda) (I know some who did and claim to have some success with it but I read that years ago)

- putting Tosaskin in small triangular?? (or was it round?) bowls w/ airstone and shallow water to promote the "tail flip". (round =))

- Putting a needle in a Bubble Eye's bubble and taking/putting fluid in - to even out both bubble sizes (This is a first for me but I do know that some use a needle to take out fluid/air in regards to the swim bladder though o.o)

- putting TVR in shallow ponds w/ airstone only - promotes flowerlike tail and buffalo futan (Other factors are involved with the tail development like the amount of fish but shallow water is key and the futan is all about the diet nothing to do with the shallow water)

^^^^^^^ NEVER try the things on the weird list if you cannot maintain water quality/have no fish handling experience! Personally I don't recomend doing either of those.

Most of what you said is pretty sound but I would change a few things in regards to the grooming. 8 would be excessive but 4-5 would be good when their age 0-3 months, 3M-1year 3-4, 1-3years 3, 3years+ less feeding as they age beyond that point. Siphoning with clear water is fine but I would just do a 100% water change after 3 days or something but for green water it's a big no no unless it's time to change the water. Water levels does play a role in developing certain characteristic in a fish but not really in the tail tuck or deeper body aspect. Though at the end of the day it's all about the genetics and if they were stunted or not before you bought them.

Although the bit about tosakins is true, some people do that, I would be very interested to know where you got this information. No offense given, but being 14, Im guessing this information was not developed first hand. What are your sources?

Green water is difficult to maintain in an aquarium and/or is for the experiences hobbyist. Its usually used outside in tubs or ponds and not generally recommended for inside.

Deeper water does not always equal a deeper body. Parent fish have more to do with that than water depth. Putting a needle in a bubble eyes sac will do nothing except allow a passage way for bacterial infections and irritation to the fish. Tail tucks do matter on breeds besides ranchu, such as oranda and lionhead. So does a smooth back. Mikey is buying small fish of pet store quality and not showing them.

Please don't recommend dangerous procedures such as these. They can kill fish.

I don't think he would be able to give sources publicly considering the rules here, could ask him to pm it to you.

I think green water is easy to maintain just getting it is hard depending on how you go about it.

Also standards differ but traditionally lion heads should have straight backs with zero to little tail tuck

I wouldn't go trying to get green water indoors either. While it can be beneficial, fish react differently to it. Some get all of the fantastic growth and color, like my ryukins, and orandas, while some have a hard time dealing with it, like my lionheads. You can never really know, but you can get similar growth and color results with blood worms and food high in algae (: just be sure that if any of your fish get floaty to avoid giving them too much high protein foods.

I rather curious about your green water, do you mind sharing your process? (how green is it, when do you change, etc.)

That was exactly my point about lionheads. The tail tuck matters because there shouldn't be one :)

Green water can be difficult to maintain and like I said, generally is not reccomended for novice fish keepers like Mike.

You can give sources publicly and should. You just cant link directly to other forums.

Lovely chaos has green water outdoors and I believe it developed on its own although she will be able to tell you better.

Edited by GreenTea
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I wouldn't go trying to get green water indoors either. While it can be beneficial, fish react differently to it. Some get all of the fantastic growth and color, like my ryukins, and orandas, while some have a hard time dealing with it, like my lionheads. You can never really know, but you can get similar growth and color results with blood worms and food high in algae (: just be sure that if any of your fish get floaty to avoid giving them too much high protein foods.

I rather curious about your green water, do you mind sharing your process? (how green is it, when do you change, etc.)

My green water is extremely green, and i maintain normal water changes, about 50% once a week. I can take a cup of water in a clear glass and the water will be tinted green and cloudy. To my understanding, it happened because of a higher amount of nitrates, direct sun exposure, and the water quality from the tap high in organic material that algae feeds off of- which is why water changes don't affect it. if you have all of these, you might see it with enough light exposure and fewer nitrate eating plants, but i wouldn't go putting your fish in sun, raising nitrates, or adding algae food to the water to get it. Being outside was the biggest factor though. I didn't mean to do it on purpose, and it has been a pain in the butt. I've seen awesome growth and color changes with all of my fish but some have been getting sick and i just lost an otherwise healthy fish to dropsy after getting this green water.

I'm sorry I don't have more info!

Edited by LovelyChaos
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I wouldn't go trying to get green water indoors either. While it can be beneficial, fish react differently to it. Some get all of the fantastic growth and color, like my ryukins, and orandas, while some have a hard time dealing with it, like my lionheads. You can never really know, but you can get similar growth and color results with blood worms and food high in algae (: just be sure that if any of your fish get floaty to avoid giving them too much high protein foods.

I rather curious about your green water, do you mind sharing your process? (how green is it, when do you change, etc.)

My green water is extremely green, and i maintain normal water changes, about 50% once a week. I can take a cup of water in a clear glass and the water will be tinted green and cloudy. To my understanding, it happened because of a higher amount of nitrates, direct sun exposure, and the water quality from the tap high in organic material that algae feeds off of- which is why water changes don't affect it. if you have all of these, you might see it with enough light exposure and fewer nitrate eating plants, but i wouldn't go putting your fish in sun, raising nitrates, or adding algae food to the water to get it. Being outside was the biggest factor though. I didn't mean to do it on purpose, and it has been a pain in the butt. I've seen awesome growth and color changes with all of my fish but some have been getting sick and i just lost an otherwise healthy fish to dropsy after getting this green water.

I'm sorry I don't have more info!

I think he grew green water outdoors and keeps it in his aquarium.

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I don't think he would be able to give sources publicly considering the rules here, could ask him to pm it to you.

I think I already Addressed that in the edited post..

You can give sources publicly and should. You just cant link directly to other forums.

thank you thats what I said in the edited post of KK..

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That was exactly my point about lionheads. The tail tuck matters because there shouldn't be one :)

Green water can be difficult to maintain and like I said, generally is not reccomended for novice fish keepers like Mike.

You can give sources publicly and should. You just cant link directly to other forums.

Lovely chaos has green water outdoors and I believe it developed on its own although she will be able to tell you better.

ahhhh I guess I misunderstood the phrasing of what you meant

good to know that's how it works

My green water is extremely green, and i maintain normal water changes, about 50% once a week. I can take a cup of water in a clear glass and the water will be tinted green and cloudy. To my understanding, it happened because of a higher amount of nitrates, direct sun exposure, and the water quality from the tap high in organic material that algae feeds off of- which is why water changes don't affect it. if you have all of these, you might see it with enough light exposure and fewer nitrate eating plants, but i wouldn't go putting your fish in sun, raising nitrates, or adding algae food to the water to get it. Being outside was the biggest factor though. I didn't mean to do it on purpose, and it has been a pain in the butt. I've seen awesome growth and color changes with all of my fish but some have been getting sick and i just lost an otherwise healthy fish to dropsy after getting this green water.

I'm sorry I don't have more info!

That's more then enough info thanks! I think ammonia plays a bigger role in the formation of green water then nitrates, and I think I see where your problem lies...although green water is good for our fish it start to become bad once we let it get too green. So now I have to ask do you want the green water or get rid of it? o.o (also you mention one of your fish got sick, so is your water green-brownish by any chance?)

I think he grew green water outdoors and keeps it in his aquarium.

I grew my green water indoors =), a bit hard to do it outdoors at the moment since it's too cold and I live in an apartment.

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My green water is extremely green, and i maintain normal water changes, about 50% once a week. I can take a cup of water in a clear glass and the water will be tinted green and cloudy. To my understanding, it happened because of a higher amount of nitrates, direct sun exposure, and the water quality from the tap high in organic material that algae feeds off of- which is why water changes don't affect it. if you have all of these, you might see it with enough light exposure and fewer nitrate eating plants, but i wouldn't go putting your fish in sun, raising nitrates, or adding algae food to the water to get it. Being outside was the biggest factor though. I didn't mean to do it on purpose, and it has been a pain in the butt. I've seen awesome growth and color changes with all of my fish but some have been getting sick and i just lost an otherwise healthy fish to dropsy after getting this green water.

I'm sorry I don't have more info!

That's more then enough info thanks! I think ammonia plays a bigger role in the formation of green water then nitrates, and I think I see where your problem lies...although green water is good for our fish it start to become bad once we let it get too green. So now I have to ask do you want the green water or get rid of it? o.o (also you mention one of your fish got sick, so is your water green-brownish by any chance?)

Actually, it's just super super green. I've been trying to get rid of it, I've put in bamboo and lots of wisteria, right now I am trying a black out for a week, and if that doesn't work, I'll be tearing down everything and restarting from scratch, except my bio media if possible, and trying to move the tank indoors somewhere (: I know I don't have any ammonia readings, but I have very high nitrates, though this could have been kicked into motion after my move, my bio media wasnt completely thriving and I had ammonia for a while. About 2-3 weeks after setting up the tank, a filter failed overnight, and in the morning the walls were covered in algae, but the water wasnt green. I restarted the filter and after some really sunny days and a couple days of rain, the water itself turned extremely green. It's been a problem ever since >.< if you have any idea on how to get rid of it in a 125 gallon aquarium, I'd love to hear (X I'm a little desperate haha.

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I like my fish as they are, and I don't want to change them. I like them normally as they should be, not extremely pretty so that they don't look like their true breed. :)

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I wouldn't go trying to get green water indoors either. While it can be beneficial, fish react differently to it. Some get all of the fantastic growth and color, like my ryukins, and orandas, while some have a hard time dealing with it, like my lionheads. You can never really know, but you can get similar growth and color results with blood worms and food high in algae (: just be sure that if any of your fish get floaty to avoid giving them too much high protein foods.

I rather curious about your green water, do you mind sharing your process? (how green is it, when do you change, etc.)

My green water is extremely green, and i maintain normal water changes, about 50% once a week. I can take a cup of water in a clear glass and the water will be tinted green and cloudy. To my understanding, it happened because of a higher amount of nitrates, direct sun exposure, and the water quality from the tap high in organic material that algae feeds off of- which is why water changes don't affect it. if you have all of these, you might see it with enough light exposure and fewer nitrate eating plants, but i wouldn't go putting your fish in sun, raising nitrates, or adding algae food to the water to get it. Being outside was the biggest factor though. I didn't mean to do it on purpose, and it has been a pain in the butt. I've seen awesome growth and color changes with all of my fish but some have been getting sick and i just lost an otherwise healthy fish to dropsy after getting this green water.

I'm sorry I don't have more info!

So for green water, if my water is good 0 ammonia low trates and trites and a good pH and my water is green that's good? Can I try it or should I not? My tank is directly in front of a window and sun shines in all day.

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My green water is extremely green, and i maintain normal water changes, about 50% once a week. I can take a cup of water in a clear glass and the water will be tinted green and cloudy. To my understanding, it happened because of a higher amount of nitrates, direct sun exposure, and the water quality from the tap high in organic material that algae feeds off of- which is why water changes don't affect it. if you have all of these, you might see it with enough light exposure and fewer nitrate eating plants, but i wouldn't go putting your fish in sun, raising nitrates, or adding algae food to the water to get it. Being outside was the biggest factor though. I didn't mean to do it on purpose, and it has been a pain in the butt. I've seen awesome growth and color changes with all of my fish but some have been getting sick and i just lost an otherwise healthy fish to dropsy after getting this green water.

I'm sorry I don't have more info!

That's more then enough info thanks! I think ammonia plays a bigger role in the formation of green water then nitrates, and I think I see where your problem lies...although green water is good for our fish it start to become bad once we let it get too green. So now I have to ask do you want the green water or get rid of it? o.o (also you mention one of your fish got sick, so is your water green-brownish by any chance?)

Actually, it's just super super green. I've been trying to get rid of it, I've put in bamboo and lots of wisteria, right now I am trying a black out for a week, and if that doesn't work, I'll be tearing down everything and restarting from scratch, except my bio media if possible, and trying to move the tank indoors somewhere (: I know I don't have any ammonia readings, but I have very high nitrates, though this could have been kicked into motion after my move, my bio media wasnt completely thriving and I had ammonia for a while. About 2-3 weeks after setting up the tank, a filter failed overnight, and in the morning the walls were covered in algae, but the water wasnt green. I restarted the filter and after some really sunny days and a couple days of rain, the water itself turned extremely green. It's been a problem ever since >.< if you have any idea on how to get rid of it in a 125 gallon aquarium, I'd love to hear (X I'm a little desperate haha.

You could try taking out your fish and putting them into a separate tank/tub and just keep emptying and filling at the same time and scrub all the sides of the glass and I hate to say it but maybe restart your cycle? Or rinse you bio moduals in the tank water and clean the sponge with tap. And I guess re-fill and use prime and let it sit a couple days and test it and hope the water sin't green xD. That's all I can think of to do.

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Hey, I would not try for green water with your tank overstocked like it is. Green water is great for fish in understocked situations for example with 25 gallons per fish or more. It has great nutrition for them, but here is the thing, when the lights go out oxygen levels will go down due to all the algae in the water, this could lead to suffocation of your goldfish, especially since you are overstocked.

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Hey, I would not try for green water with your tank overstocked like it is. Green water is great for fish in understocked situations for example with 25 gallons per fish or more. It has great nutrition for them, but here is the thing, when the lights go out oxygen levels will go down due to all the algae in the water, this could lead to suffocation of your goldfish, especially since you are overstocked.

Right now, I either have an algae bloom or its turning into green water. What should I do? I have a thread with pictures. You can't really see the green though. How do I get rid of it? I was looking into a uv sterilizer.

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It looks like bacterial bloom to me, something I'm very familiar with unfortunately. I just up my water changes. I'd worry that a uv sterilizer would give you cycle bumps.

Edited by Smegy Psiren
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It looks like bacterial bloom to me, something I'm very familiar with unfortunately. I just up my water changes. I'd worry that a uv sterilizer would give you cycle bumps.

Is it ok for the fish? As long as they are on I don't care what the water looks like (as long as parameters are good ;)). I guess I will look into one when the bloom is done. Should I do my 80% WC today or wait until Saturday? I do weekly 80%.

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UV sterilisers are quite expensive. I would love to have one, but I can't afford it. Can you link the thread, Mike?

I think Smeggs has hit it on the head though :P Water changes will solve most water issues :)

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UV sterilisers are quite expensive. I would love to have one, but I can't afford it. Can you link the thread, Mike?

I think Smeggs has hit it on the head though :P Water changes will solve most water issues :)

What do you mean by link the thread? :rofl

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My green water is extremely green, and i maintain normal water changes, about 50% once a week. I can take a cup of water in a clear glass and the water will be tinted green and cloudy. To my understanding, it happened because of a higher amount of nitrates, direct sun exposure, and the water quality from the tap high in organic material that algae feeds off of- which is why water changes don't affect it. if you have all of these, you might see it with enough light exposure and fewer nitrate eating plants, but i wouldn't go putting your fish in sun, raising nitrates, or adding algae food to the water to get it. Being outside was the biggest factor though. I didn't mean to do it on purpose, and it has been a pain in the butt. I've seen awesome growth and color changes with all of my fish but some have been getting sick and i just lost an otherwise healthy fish to dropsy after getting this green water.

I'm sorry I don't have more info!

That's more then enough info thanks! I think ammonia plays a bigger role in the formation of green water then nitrates, and I think I see where your problem lies...although green water is good for our fish it start to become bad once we let it get too green. So now I have to ask do you want the green water or get rid of it? o.o (also you mention one of your fish got sick, so is your water green-brownish by any chance?)

Actually, it's just super super green. I've been trying to get rid of it, I've put in bamboo and lots of wisteria, right now I am trying a black out for a week, and if that doesn't work, I'll be tearing down everything and restarting from scratch, except my bio media if possible, and trying to move the tank indoors somewhere (: I know I don't have any ammonia readings, but I have very high nitrates, though this could have been kicked into motion after my move, my bio media wasnt completely thriving and I had ammonia for a while. About 2-3 weeks after setting up the tank, a filter failed overnight, and in the morning the walls were covered in algae, but the water wasnt green. I restarted the filter and after some really sunny days and a couple days of rain, the water itself turned extremely green. It's been a problem ever since >.< if you have any idea on how to get rid of it in a 125 gallon aquarium, I'd love to hear (X I'm a little desperate haha.

All you have to do is scrub the tank then do a 100% water change (empty the water in the filters too if your using any) then make sure to provide lots of shade for the next few days as a precaution to kill off any possible left overs. Also you should know that you probably have a cycle bumb or cycle might be gone altogether as a result of the green water (since it competes with the bb for the same food source). So just make sure to check your parameters and do water changes accordingly and make sure it's perfect otherwise green water will just come back eventually to balance things out.

I like my fish as they are, and I don't want to change them. I like them normally as they should be, not extremely pretty so that they don't look like their true breed. :)

....? what do you mean exactly when you say true breed o.o?

Hey, I would not try for green water with your tank overstocked like it is. Green water is great for fish in understocked situations for example with 25 gallons per fish or more. It has great nutrition for them, but here is the thing, when the lights go out oxygen levels will go down due to all the algae in the water, this could lead to suffocation of your goldfish, especially since you are overstocked.

I wouldn't use Green water in the way you prescribe it since it could lead to a crash, it's better to be stocked or overstocked then understock in green water. Although this may be true to get to that point the water has to be really green and we usually counter that with airstone when the lights are out.

What do you mean by link the thread? :rofl

I think he means this?

http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/108547-greenishcloudy-water/

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@clone So they look like one of their parents. eg. ranchu x oranda = oranda or ranchu not a well groomed fish.

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@clone So they look like one of their parents. eg. ranchu x oranda = oranda or ranchu not a well groomed fish.

Grooming just means you give them the best care so they have the best possible traits for their breed. For example, your fish offspring would look like the parents, but you may feed more bloodworms or keep the tank on a different water change schedule to increase head growth. It doesn't entirely change the way your fish looks, it just makes the best out of the situation.

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