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Sick goldfish


griffster

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Test Results for the Following:

* Ammonia Level (tank): 0

* Nitrite Level (tank) 0

* Nitrate level (Tank) 5

* Ammonia Level (Tap): 0

* Nitrite Level (Tap) 0

* Nitrate level (Tap) 0-5

* Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.0

* Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) 7.4

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API except for the PH which is Aqua Master Junior pH Test Kit (probably not very accurate unforunately)

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Not sure as it came with the aquarium

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Seachem Prime

* Water temperature? 26-27 derees celsius

* How often do you change the water and how much? - Generally 30% every 1.5 to 2 weeks (when the Nitrates are around 20)

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 2 days

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 27 for the main tank and 8 for the quarantine tank

* How many fish in the tank and their size? 2 - both around 5 cm (not including tail)

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Once a day, Hikari Lionhead pellets

* Any new fish added to the tank? No

* Any medications added to the tank? Currently just salt, a little Melafix and praziquantel.

* List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.)

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Losing scales, one white spot just appeared on his fin 2 days ago, one eye looks a little more "bulged" with a blue ring around it, tail seems to be a little bent, the right side of his lower body near the tail seems to be larger than the other side, ulcers/wounds? (though they seem to have mostly healed a few days ago - the scale loss seems to have happened around the area where the ulcers were)

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Lying on his side at the bottom of the tank, not that interested in food and spitting a lot of it out when eating, he had long white transparent poop 2 days ago and has not seemed to have had any poop since

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. - In the past 3 weeks, Melafix, Pimafix, Triple Sulfa, Tetracycline, Metrodizanole, Praziquantel

* You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.

Hi,

I thought I'd just give a little more background on the poor fish. It's quite a long story and I'll add in as much detail as possible if it helps as it seems he may have a few things wrong with him. It seemed to have started when my young nephew came over and tried to vacuum the fish tank when I wasn't around - he may have been quite rough as I found a piece of gravel stuck in the Eheim vacuum which is barely strong enough to even stir the rocks on the bottom. Later that day, the fish had an unusually long poop - maybe around 8cm long.

A few days later, he just started hiding in a decorative ship I had in the aquarium, only coming out to eat and then going right back in. This went on for a few more days before I went and removed the ship as I was getting a little worried for him and couldn't see him in the ship. He had a little bump-like pimple on his side so I started adding melafix and pimafix doing the 7 day course. The lump seemed to burst and became wounds or ulcers on his side. I've got pictures but I'm not sure how to attach them so I may host them up somewhere tomorrow. Anyway, the redness and wounds seem to be much better now. His tail seems bent at an angle as well.

After the 7 days he got worse and started lying down on his side at the bottom of the aquarium. I went to a fish store and showed them the pictures and one of the guys said that it looked like flukes so he gave me aquarium salt, quick cure (which has melachite green and formalin in it) and triple sulfa. Another guy there recommended tetracycline so I bought that too.

The fish pretty much looked like it was going to die soon but I started adding the salt, triple sulfa and quick cure. I did 2 rounds of this - 3 days each with no effect but at least the fish was still alive. I then tried the tetracycline for 3 days and still no effect. I also put in 2 airstones as I read that it may help.

At this point in time the fish was spitting food out and still lying on his side on the bottom of the tank and not moving much. I stumbled across this site that suggested that it could be dropsy as I noticed a few scales starting to lift near the gills so I ran around looking for metrodizanole as no shops here sell medicated foods of any sort. I crushed the tablets and put it in the water in the dosage someone on this site suggested. Amazingly 2 days into it the fish started moving around a little so I also made gel food with some metrodizanole in it. I stopped putting metrodizanole in the water after the 3 days and just continued with the gel food.

A few days later he developed more pimple-like lumps on the side that had white pus coming out. These healed up over time but he's started to go back to lying down on the bottom of the tank again, though have bouts where he swims around. I put the gel food in and he eats it, spits it out, eats it, spits it out. It takes a few hours but he eats most of it.

He's also started to have a white spot on his fin and just today started losing scales. He also hasn't pooped in 2 days so I was wondering if this should be a worry. I've started adding salt to the water with some praziquantel but was wondering if I should also start adding metrodizanole to the water later as he's still on the bottom of the tank most of the day and that seemed to help the most previously. I'm already on day 3 of the prazi schedule so I wasn't sure if I should mix the meds.

Again, I apologise for the very long post and would be most appreciative of any ideas people have on what would help the poor fish.

Thanks again,

Tim

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Hi and welcome to Koko's. Thanks for the very detailed information. I cannot be of much help other than to say that you can upload pictures to the site via photobucket.

Hopefully a mod will come along shortly to help you further.

Best of luck to you and your fish. :D

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Thank you very much for the very detailed post. I think that pictures or a video will be very helpful. There is a link in my signature on how to post it, after loading it to a site like Photobucket.

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No problems... I'm just trying to help the fish as the poor thing seems to be fighting so hard.

I've put a link to a video here on my ISP:

http://users.tpg.com.au/adsl23r3/SickFish.mp4

The cage-like thing in the video is actually a fish breeding container. I used it when both my fish were in my main tank to stop the other fish from disturbing him and stealing his share of the food. I've since moved it to the QT as he seems to like sleeping in it. If you look closely at one of his sides you'll notice that a large patch of scales has been removed and he has a wite spot on his bottom fin.

Today the fish had a type of seizure after the video so I didn't get to catch it on the video as it happened so quickly. He made violent twitchy motions for around 20 to 30 seconds, then lay down on his side at the bottom of the tank twitching until he stopped at which point I thought he died. I quickly rushed out and changed 50% of the water despite being on day 3 of the prazi schedule and he's back to sitting on the bottom of the tank like his usual sick self. I also noticed when he was on his side that one of his eyes was bulging a fair bit with a blue ring around his eye.

Any thoughts on whether I should add more salt, prazi or metrodizanole to the water? I've been scared to do much else so after the water change I just added in a little bit of melafix though I am tempted to add more metrodizanole as it was what brought him out of his "side-laying" state a week ago.

Thanks for listening... I wish I would have found this site earlier as I've found many of the posts informative and very helpful. Funny thing is that I wasn't even contemplating having fish.... my sis and brother-in-law went on holiday and left the fish with me. I did some reading online about goldfish and realised that the small tank they had (probably around 2 gals for 2 goldfish) was way too small and they didn't even have a working filter. They came back from their holiday and my brother-in-law said that I could have the fish if I wanted. Feeling sorry for the fish I kept them, bought a 26-27 gal tank and have been looking after them since (nearly as year).

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Just adding links to a few more pictures. These were taken nearly 2 weeks ago when he was lying down on his side on the bottom of the aquarium. The guy at the fish shop said it looked like flukes and gave me aquarium salt, triple sulfa and fungus cure (contains acriflavine & malachite green) to help.

http://users.tpg.com...r3/IMG_2054.jpg

http://users.tpg.com...r3/IMG_2055.jpg

http://users.tpg.com...r3/IMG_2056.jpg

The red patches have disappeared, but he's now losing scales where the redness was. He still sits on the bottom 90% of the day... but at least he swims around now & then after the metronidazole treatment.

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Hopefully someone will chime in soon. He is a fighter. Throwing a lot of different medications at a fish can do some damage. How long was the metro in the water? You fed a gel food with metro for 3 days and then he went downhill again once you stopped? Metronidazole should be fed atleast 14 days so this could be a reason for the decline again. Also the prazi, did you salt to 3%? If not he could get a secondary infection from the flukes. Right now just don't add anything until someone experienced can give you a game plan. Just keep the water clean and keep him unstressed. Do you know how much salt is currently in the tank? I'm thinking your best bet is the medicated food you were feeding but we'll wait for opinions. Please don't give up :) Im rooting for him!

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Best of luck! They are amazing here and are often very quick at replying so I'm sure you'll have some help soon.

If you don't mind me asking, how did you end up getting metrodizanole?

I'm hoping the mods don't mind me saying this, but you have to be careful with that gravel, so much grime lives in it and I loss my very loved goldfish to a mix of not cleaning the gravel properly and all that warm weather we had at the start of the year.

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Tiffany_King: Yes, I had heard that over-medicating or using too many different medications can be bad for the fish, but when I was pretty sure the fish wouldn't make it after 2 to 3 weeks of lying on his side on the bottom of the tank and not eating, I was willing to try anything. Before getting to the stronger meds (I started using Pimafix and Melafix on the main tank with both fish) I shifted the sick fish to his own QT tank so that I didn't inadvertantly kill both fish. I kept the metro in the water for 3 days and I fed the metro for 6 to 7 days in gel food, but the weather started to warm up over here and the gel food I put in the days after that dissolved in the water as a gloopy mess a few minutes after I put it in meaning that the sick fish which takes 3 or 4 hours to finish the food didn't get to eat it. Regardless, for some reason he stopped eating the gel food anyway.... I made another batch today and he's not touching that either making me wonder if I should just add more to the water. For the prazi, I had the water at the 3% level but have made 2 water changes since as I wasn't sure if it was the salt causing the fish to have the seizures as one attack happened a less than 15 minutes after I added some salt into the water (I was adding the salt in small lots at intervals). Now I'm unsure how much salt is in the water, but it's probably only around 1%. No plans to give up yet.... as long as he's fighting I'll try my best to give him the best chance of survival! :flex:

Andrea: Thanks. That's one of the reasons this is the "fish" forum I joined. There's a lot of information out there on numerous fish forums, but I found the one here to be not only helpful & informative, but genuinely interested in the well-being of the fish. No probs about the thing about the gravel - I read the same thing last week and have been removing the gravel bit by bit as not to disturb the cycle. I finished removing the gravel yesterday and have not had any problems as yet. I was more worried about the QT tank as I cycled it by cutting a few aquarium sponges up, throwing them in the main tank, and then using 40% of the water from the main tank with the sponges in the QT tank and all seems ok so far. The metro was a very painful experience to get my hands on. As you're from Australia as well, I'm sure you know that we can't get any types of medicated food here, and the stuff off the shelf didn't help my fish at all. I pleaded with a few pharmacies but to no avail, and all the local vets in the area don't have experience with fish - the closest fish vet around was a 1.5 hour drive. In the end as a last resort, I asked a friend who is a doctor to write me a prescription assuring him that I would only use it on the fish. Depending on the shelf life of some of the meds, I would recommend getting some before the fish get sick - metro can be hard to get here & hardly any vets stock prazi, at least in my experience.

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I think it's Helen who's from Australia (I might be completely wrong) but she might be able to get metro meds to you! You're doing a great job :) did you add the salt every 12 hours? Removing the gravel was perfect. Idk how to get in contact with anyone on here :( I hope they read this soon

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thanks for all the info.. and to members helping and that alerted me.

i am very confident that you are doing what we here would normally do. ie, salt, metronidazole & prazi. keep with that routine. which suberb in Melbourne are you? i worry re bacteria cysts or secondary infections from internal parasites as i see a small belly bulge that could be indicitive of internal parasites.

i recently made some aussie version JungleAP and will be happy to share it with you. but, you will need a way to transport frozen goods. i'm in brunswick and available this weekend at certain times if you're able to pick the medfood up.

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Tiffany_King: Thanks for the help... much appreciated. Yes, I was adding the salt at the 12 hour intervals as suggested, but I haven't added in any salt since the water changes in case they were causing/affecting the seizures. I haven't had any seizures since (he had 2 pretty bad ones the other 2 days when I had salt in) but he also seemed more comfortable after I added some baking powder in to raise the PH level. He's still got the missing scales and is sitting on the bottom a lot, but at least I do catch him swimming around now and then which gives me a little hope.

Helen: Thanks for the offer and help as well. I'm located around the Doncaster/Templestowe area, but will be around the Richmond area tomorrow afternoon/night. I'll be happy to pick the gel food up and also happy to pay you for it. I'm just really hoping that something will help the poor fish as he's been sick for so long and I feel quite sorry for him. :( Would your med food contain praziquantel? If not, I may have to pick up some more tablets from the vet later as I'm out of those too.

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Tiffany_King: I thought I added the salt quite slowly.... I added a bit more salt a few hours ago as I noticed another lump growing on his side and he hasn't had any reaction. He eats... but very slowly. To eat a few small cubes of gel food takes him nearly 3 hours. At least my new batch of medicated food with more gelatine doesn't dissolve in that time.

Helen: Many thanks... will contact you by email now.

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Yes you did great with the salt :) does it take him that long to eat because he is having trouble getting to it? Or he just takes his time? Maybe you can split up the dosage into smaller pieces throughout the day so there's none sitting in the water. Helen can help you with the dosage I'm sure. She might ask you to weigh him so she knows exactly how much he needs to eat per day (very important). If you don't have a scale there's food scales at Walmart for very cheap ($10-$15). Not sure if there's a Walmart where you're at :/ but I'm sure you can find them at a similar store. Also there's a video you can search for on this website about how to weigh your fish with the scale.

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Helen: Thanks again, and looking forward to getting the medicated food tomorrow!

Tiffany_King: He isn't having trouble getting to it as he can swim around quite well now when he wants to though he still spends the majority of his time sitting on the bottom of the tank. He used to eat, spit, eat spit until it slowly disappeared. Now he leaves the food as if he's not interested and only starts eating when he feels like it. Either that or he's got eyesight problems and he can't see the food... not too sure which. He's around 10-11 grams... I weighed him last week so that I would know how much metro gel food to feed him. From another post on this site, I think it mentioned 1mg of metro per 10g of fish... my scale is only accurate to 1g so I'm hoping any overdosage doesn't cause any problems. By the way, would you know how much praziquantel you add to the water for an 8 gal tank? I could only find one person posting on site his dosage and I worked it out to be 150mg for my tank so I just wanted to confirm if that's not enough or too much. I appreciate the moral support and help you've given... thanks! :D

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just a thought. if you like, you can isolate that fish, once isolated, feed it a boiled, skinned pea, that should encourage your fish to poop. collect the poop sample in some tank water and bring it with you... (sounds slightly overkill? :rofl ) i will run it through the microscope to confirm internal parasites :) also, you can bring me a water sample from your tank, and i will test the water for you if you're having concerns about the test results.

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Awesome you're already on top of the weighing. For the prazipro dose 1tsp/20gal. I think that's 5,000mg for 20gal? :s I'm not great at conversion. So 250mg/gal? I would look that up haha. Here's a link on dosage.

http://www.kokosgold...pro-directions/

Man I need to get a microscope!

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there was no sample.. lolol.. he didn't make it to read the update before he was on his way here.

but, we discussed prazi treatment. day 1.. 2 prazi tabs in his 9 gal qt tank, wc on day 3 or 4 of 40-50% no dose with wc.. dose again on day 7.. keep routine for 4 weeks min. the medfood received also has prazi in it as well as the other meds required to rid internal parasites.

he now has a proper PH API drops test in his possesion, 8 prazi tablets and medfood ;) so, stay tuned for an accurate PH test..

we also discussed a better maintenance routine and lightly touched on filters.. something i know little about since i've only used canister filters.

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Tiffany_King: Thanks! I'll use the food picked up from Helen & see how everything goes.

Helen: I can't thank you enough for your generousity with the the meds as well as sharing your wealth of information. I haven't put the prazi into the tank water as yet as I was wondering whether I should add any salt to the water. I've done enough water changes that the amount of salt left in the water should be neglibile.

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because the fish is still nursing some wounds, i think you should maintain a 0.1% salt level for at least 2 weeks. we want the area of where the missing scales are to repair as quickly as possibe because if there are flukes present, they will latch onto the unprotected areas and cause infections faster. salt will begin to assist in repairs to the slime coat which is very important.

to avoid salt creep, i would recommend that you do another large water change so that all salt is totally removed, then add back 0.1% as well as the first 2 tablets of Prazi i gave you. begin to feed the medfood immediately.

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Thanks for the information. I just did a 60% water change to ensure that there's no salt in the water and then added 28g of sea salt to the 8 gal tank along with the 2 tablets of prazi. I tried the gel food but he spat it out and refused to eat it. I already gave him some gel food with metro in it in the morning, so hopefully when he's hungrier tomorrow he'll eat it.

He also has a small white spot on one of his lower fins. I was wondering if I should raise the salt level to 0.3% instead of 0.1% in case it is ick? Or should I just treat one problem at a time? I'll await your reply and keep it at 0.1% until tomorrow (I'll be adding the salt at the 12 hour intervals anyway).

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