Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Maschka1

Is this normal for a lionhead? or is he sick? Stressed?

Recommended Posts


    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level (tank):0
  • * Nitrite Level (tank):0
  • * Nitrate level (Tank): 20-40 (this is a planted tank)
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap):0
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap):0
  • * Nitrate level (Tap):0
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): pH=6-6.5, KH=40, GH=120
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines):pH=6.5-7, KH=40, GH=0
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API strips- which is why I gave ranges for some values The color looks to be between 2 values.
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? I have a Fluval 305 Canister, And a Penguin Emperor, external filter (cycles through tank 13 times per hour)
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Stress coat, stress Zyme, Leaf Zone, Seachem Potassium (trying to get rid of green spot algea issue)
  • * Water temperature? 74-76 (mostly due to my lighting)
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? around every 4 days I change about 50%

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? 1 day (30%) and then 3 days before that (50%)
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 55 Gallon- been running for about 15 years, but we moved it 8 months ago, and I added plant substrate to my current gravel a month ago
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 5 small ( about 1-2") goldfish, 4 tiny clown plecos (less then 1"), and A long fin neon rosey barb that thinks it is a goldfish (it was one of those things where I needed to stick him in a tank, temporarily, and now 6 years later he is still living in that tank)
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? They get a Gel food that I make up that consists of a couple different high end pellets (soak them until mush, add gelatin and a little baby food and probiotics), Repashy Soilent Green, Frozen blood worms once or twice a week, and an array of fresh foods as supplemental treats. they are feed 2-3 times a day (some days I am not home to give them lunch)
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? All are new-ish. they span the course of the last 2 months. The Lionhead is the newest, we got him last night.
  • * Any medications added to the tank? Treated for Ick about 2 weeks ago (I am not convinced I had it, but wanted to be safe)
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? The lionhead's tail fin has a single split in it, so a very minor tare/fraying.
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? The Lionhead seems to be exhausted and is hanging out on the bottom of the tank quite a bit. He gets up and moves around for a while and then goes back to "catching his breath" When he gets up to swim it seems like such a challenge with soooo much extra body wiggling to get around. It seems like he needs to exert a lot of extra effort and energy to get around. Also when I have feed the fish he doesnt really go after the food and seems to engage in very minimal foraging behavior.

Since this tank is pretty newly re-stocked I didnt worry about a quarantine tank as they are all in quarantine, IMO. I also realize they will outgrow the tank, but I think they will be fine for now (they are so small and I plan on buying a larger tank by July). All the fish seem perfectly happy and healthy except this new little lionhead.

I have never had a lionhead before ( Or he could be a ranchu, honestly I am not sure how to tell the difference) so I am not sure if it is normal for them to act this way? I realize he is just a little round potato of a fish with very little in the fin department, so I would assume swimming might be challenging. I dont really see an obvious sign of infection (aside from the split on his fin which I am guessing was from handling him during shipping). any ideas? I am wondering if the 55 gallon might be too much for him? Perhaps he needs a smaller tank until he gets a little bigger/stronger? (of course I dont have a small tank right now, so that means buying one. We are trying to buy a new house so we put our tanks in storage while we are staying in a temporary set up-silly me) Or maybe he is just stressed from moving in and I need to let him adjust? I just worry because he didnt seem this exacerbated at the LFS.

IMG_20130203_1210211_zps67e0f1d0.jpg

IMG_20130203_1210141_zps37bee4eb.jpg

PS- please look past the GSA on the glass, I am working on it, but for some reason after the ick treatment we got a bit of an algal bloom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, what an adorable little ranchu! Have you treated for flukes with praziquantel and salt?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My concerns are your pH, kH and nitrates. While goldfish can tolerate low pH, 6-6.5 is just really too low for them to be comfortable. They need a ph closer to 7-8 and a kh of 100 to keep it from dropping. crushed coral is a good solution for this. nitrates shouldnt be as high as they are in your planted tank, which im guessing is because of the overstocking. even with plants, your nitrates are still climbing too quickly. Where did you get the lionhead? Did you acclimate him to your water? I have 3 little lionheads in a 125 gallon tank and they are all happy and healthy and have no trouble swimming in the current and the size of the aquarium. So I don't think it's normal, and he probably isn't feeling well ): I can't really say what is causing it but I hope he feels better.

Edited by LovelyChaos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest GrahamW

personaly i wouldnt worry about 20-40 nitrites, realy this fish should have been throughly QTed and i suggest treating the whole tank wit a 0.3% salt solution first and see if that help, raise the salt level 0.1% per 12 hours till you reach 0.3% then keep us posted on behavioural changes. look for raised scales, rapid gill movement, flashing, yawning and other unusual behaviour, you are asking for trouble IMO by neglecting to QT. remember to replace salt after the WC's and maintain perfect water. also i wonder if you have excessive current in the tank? this can be seen by observing the fish, if it doesnt move actively throughout the whole tank and gets easily pushed about something must be done as the stress will deplete its immune system.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you please put up a short video of the fish and the tank?

Since they are all relatively new and in 'QT' I would suggest doing the typical QT procedure of salt and prazi just to be proactive. You can start with .3% salt as Graham suggested above. You can use aquarium salt or any type of salt without any additives/anti caking agents. .1% = 1 teaspoon per gallon. Raise the salt level .1% every 12 hours until you get to .3% (dissolve salt thoroughly in some tank water before adding it to the tank). When you do your water changes you'll need to add back in the amount of salt you took out (e.g. if you have 50 tsp of salt and you do a 50% water change you need to add back in 25 tsp of salt)

Please also order prazipro (it's cheapest on amazon http://www.amazon.com/PraziPro-oz---treats-480-Gallon/dp/B0006JLPC2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359931621&sr=8-1&keywords=prazipro) Once you get this let us know and we can walk you through the treatment procedure.

As Lovely Chaos pointed out, you also need to address the low pH. For now you can use a little baking soda to bump it up to around 7.2 (add 1 tsp of baking soda, wait about 15 min, test pH and repeat if needed - keep track of how many tsp it takes). Your kh is low, which can lead to a pH crash, and with an already low pH this is a significant concern. You'll want to pick up a good buffer such as Seachem Gold buffer or API proper pH, or you can get Buff it Up online at www.goldfishconnection.com

I will check back in for the video. Please let us know if you have any questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I will try and get a video but my camera died while I was taking the original pictures (or I would have gotten a video then) so I need to buy more batteries for it.

The little guy has come out from under the log and has been swimming around with his new buddies, quite actively, for a while now. Perhaps he is adjusting to the new environment and just didnt handle the stress as well as I am used to seeing. It is also clear, he does struggle with the current, more then the other fish do. I tried turning the out-put for my fluval along the back wall (instead of out into the tank) any ideas how I could reduce this current?

I realize my tank is overstocked, currently, but it is temporary. And I hoped to limp along with frequent water changes for a couple months. It was supposed to have less goldfish in there, but my husband bought me two as a surprise and then I have been trying to get one of the LFS's in my area to order me a Ranchu or Lionhead for over a year, and finally one did (of course it wasnt the best timing). We have an offer in on a new house, right now, so hopefully it will be accepted and they can get a nice 125 gal, in March.

As far as the pH goes, I have been worried about that too. I dont know why the water is so soft and acidic in this area. Everywhere else we have lived in the state I have the opposite problem. I thought, perhaps, my test strips were off but I bought new ones and they say the same thing. I have always been told not to mess with pH for goldfish, because they are pretty adaptable and the buffers can "stop working" and cause large pH swings which are worse then consistent pH. I would love to hear more about your opinions on that.

I have not noticed any flashing, rubbing, or excessive yawning but I will keep an eye out.

Will the salt and Prazi hurt my plants? If so, then I probably need to purchase another tank, anyway. If only the hubby loved my fish as much as I do... :/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest GrahamW

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I will try and get a video but my camera died while I was taking the original pictures (or I would have gotten a video then) so I need to buy more batteries for it.

The little guy has come out from under the log and has been swimming around with his new buddies, quite actively, for a while now. Perhaps he is adjusting to the new environment and just didnt handle the stress as well as I am used to seeing. It is also clear, he does struggle with the current, more then the other fish do. I tried turning the out-put for my fluval along the back wall (instead of out into the tank) any ideas how I could reduce this current?

I realize my tank is overstocked, currently, but it is temporary. And I hoped to limp along with frequent water changes for a couple months. It was supposed to have less goldfish in there, but my husband bought me two as a surprise and then I have been trying to get one of the LFS's in my area to order me a Ranchu or Lionhead for over a year, and finally one did (of course it wasnt the best timing). We have an offer in on a new house, right now, so hopefully it will be accepted and they can get a nice 125 gal, in March.

As far as the pH goes, I have been worried about that too. I dont know why the water is so soft and acidic in this area. Everywhere else we have lived in the state I have the opposite problem. I thought, perhaps, my test strips were off but I bought new ones and they say the same thing. I have always been told not to mess with pH for goldfish, because they are pretty adaptable and the buffers can "stop working" and cause large pH swings which are worse then consistent pH. I would love to hear more about your opinions on that.

I have not noticed any flashing, rubbing, or excessive yawning but I will keep an eye out.

Will the salt and Prazi hurt my plants? If so, then I probably need to purchase another tank, anyway. If only the hubby loved my fish as much as I do... :/

the salt can hurt some plants but deoends on specise, i have hade various plants and salt with no problems, not sure about prazi, but prazi can harm filter bacteria sakura does a good vid on youtube, i've not used it myself as its not avalible in the uk, the output on most fluvals is adjustable, positioning against a wall is a good idea and may be enough, mabye get a spray bar if not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most plants won't survive .3% Salt. You may want to get an air stone and move the plants to a tub, or you may be able to do salt dips with the prazi in the tank. What plants are in there? Some plants can handle prazi.

As for the pH, using a good buffer like tithra mentioned is better than leaving it. We often won't mess with higher pH because it is very hard to get back down. But with lower pH you can use things like crushed coral or buffers to keep the pH at a good level. We aren't actually changing the pH, but instead raising the kH to make the water slightly harder and more stable. Low kH will cause rapid swings in pH which is dangerous for fish.

Edited by LovelyChaos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. I will try and get a video but my camera died while I was taking the original pictures (or I would have gotten a video then) so I need to buy more batteries for it.

The little guy has come out from under the log and has been swimming around with his new buddies, quite actively, for a while now. Perhaps he is adjusting to the new environment and just didnt handle the stress as well as I am used to seeing. It is also clear, he does struggle with the current, more then the other fish do. I tried turning the out-put for my fluval along the back wall (instead of out into the tank) any ideas how I could reduce this current?

I realize my tank is overstocked, currently, but it is temporary. And I hoped to limp along with frequent water changes for a couple months. It was supposed to have less goldfish in there, but my husband bought me two as a surprise and then I have been trying to get one of the LFS's in my area to order me a Ranchu or Lionhead for over a year, and finally one did (of course it wasnt the best timing). We have an offer in on a new house, right now, so hopefully it will be accepted and they can get a nice 125 gal, in March.

As far as the pH goes, I have been worried about that too. I dont know why the water is so soft and acidic in this area. Everywhere else we have lived in the state I have the opposite problem. I thought, perhaps, my test strips were off but I bought new ones and they say the same thing. I have always been told not to mess with pH for goldfish, because they are pretty adaptable and the buffers can "stop working" and cause large pH swings which are worse then consistent pH. I would love to hear more about your opinions on that.

I have not noticed any flashing, rubbing, or excessive yawning but I will keep an eye out.

Will the salt and Prazi hurt my plants? If so, then I probably need to purchase another tank, anyway. If only the hubby loved my fish as much as I do... :/

the salt can hurt some plants but deoends on specise, i have hade various plants and salt with no problems, not sure about prazi, but prazi can harm filter bacteria sakura does a good vid on youtube, i've not used it myself as its not avalible in the uk, the output on most fluvals is adjustable, positioning against a wall is a good idea and may be enough, mabye get a spray bar if not?

Prazi does not harm BBs, it is a quite gentle med, and is safe for your cycle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most plants won't survive .3% Salt. You may want to get an air stone and move the plants to a tub, or you may be able to do salt dips with the prazi in the tank. What plants are in there? Some plants can handle prazi.

I have anubias, Java fern, Ludwiga, anacharis, crypt's, Val, and swords

On the bright side, my little Ranchu ate dinner like a champ, tonight and has been very social and active all afternoon. I think I may have freaked out a little too early. I will look into my pH though and order some Prazi to have on hand. The pH has been worrisome to me for a while, but I wasn't really sure what to think/do about it. I hope the water at our new house will be a little harder.

Thanks everyone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most plants won't survive .3% Salt. You may want to get an air stone and move the plants to a tub, or you may be able to do salt dips with the prazi in the tank. What plants are in there? Some plants can handle prazi.

I have anubias, Java fern, Ludwiga, anacharis, crypt's, Val, and swords

On the bright side, my little Ranchu ate dinner like a champ, tonight and has been very social and active all afternoon. I think I may have freaked out a little too early. I will look into my pH though and order some Prazi to have on hand. The pH has been worrisome to me for a while, but I wasn't really sure what to think/do about it. I hope the water at our new house will be a little harder.

Thanks everyone

Those seem like they will all do fine but I'm not 100% on the anacharis or the vals. He may have just been introduced too quickly and so wasn't feeling alright. But to prevent any other problems fixing the pH and going through the prazi rounds would be a good idea (;

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...