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Dropsy?


Andrea

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Ok, yeah the deeper areas could be harbouring a lot of bad bacteria since the deeper it is then the harder it is to clean properly. Generally it's suggested to be a very thin layer, 1/4 - 1/2 inch so roughtly 1cm or less :)

Is your tap and tank pH the same? As maybe a w/c without disturbing the gravel could remove at least some of the bacteria floating around, but I would wait on Alex to advise since he has been monitoring the thread and Sunshine is at least swimming around a bit now.

Ah, I see you want to do a big clean tomorrow, removing the fish, that sounds like a good plan and will remove everything that might be hindering Sunshines recovery :)

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Oh ok wow. I've seen people with so much thicker gravel. Not saying that it's right, it's just crazy the things you learn. I wonder how these people deal with it. I might remove some once this all over.

I won't do a big clean tomorrow, I meant later, maybe in a few weeks once Sunshine is recovered and stress free. I'd also like to know what everyone thinks about how long I should leave them out of the tank after this. Maybe dnalex (Alex?) will know.

Since Clementine disturbed Sunshine, she has been swimming around non-stop. Good ole Clementine, just can't ever leave Sunshine alone haha. Hope this continues, I need to go to sleep, but I'm worried about turning the lights off and Sunshine going back down.

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She may rest, but she does need to sleep too ;)

If you are taking Sunshine out for treatments every day then you might be as well getting it cleaned up during that time to avoid further bacteria sneaking into the water.

Yeah, Alex will give you great and in-depth advice for cleaning :)

I am away to work now, you should just go to sleep and get some rest.

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Thanks ninzah :) My fish are used to my sleeping patterns but I'm off to bed now and I hope Sunshine has a good rest, in the middle of the tank!

I leave Clementine in the tank while I treat Sunshine and would like to remove her before I do all the cleaning. Maybe I'll do it on the weekend, as that is soon, yet Sunshine's treatment will hopefully be over!

I still have a happy and swimming Sunshine. It's been a big ordeal this past week, I'm amazed she is doing so well, I hope she continues getting better and better.

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Hi Andrea :)

I'm really glad there continues to be good progress, although the episode with the gravel is a bit scary. My suggestion is to not wait for the fish to recover completely before doing a gravel vacuum, because now that we know there are things lurking in the substrate that can cause problems, it can happen again. So, let's take both fish out and place them in a tub with dechlorinated water and ideally an airstone. Then, do a very thoroughly vacuuming, followed by removal of all the water and replacing it with new ones. The only thing to keep is mind is to match the temp and pH (within 0.2-0.3) when you do this. :)

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Sunshine acted fine all night and is completely ok this morning, it was all a bit scary but I'm glad she bounced back. She is currently in her treating bucket and will be in there for another 4.5 hours. I only have one air pump, so I think I'll have to do the big change either tomorrow or Friday. I need to do it soon as I'll be away from home for a few days next week.

Thanks again. I am also going to start slowly removing all the gravel, I was looking at photos on this forum and they look quite nice. I'll do it slowly as suggested and I have to work out what I'll put in there. I'll definitely leave a bit of gravel as they do like to suck and search through it.

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Oh and a great update, I'd say the swelling is pretty much 99% gone. There is maybe one or two scales still sticking out but I am happy to say the treatment has worked and I'm so happy about that!

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Ok so today is the second last day of treatment, but I am thinking of making it the last as Sunshine seems healed :clapping:

I am thinking of making it the last day as Sunshine just seems over it and I don't want to put anymore stress on her. I don't want to mess around with antibiotics though and I don't want to stop treatment too early, but tomorrow is going to be a really hot day here and that just adds more stress to Sunshine.

What do you guys think?

I'm very happy, I'm still worried, as I really hope it is all gone, but I never thought I would have been able to defeat dropsy! Sunshine is one tough fish and I've known that for awhile.

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Sunshine is bottom sitting again and I'm not sure why :( She has been on and off since last night, she just seems tired. But swims up to me when I appear. I'll keep a close eye on her and keep you updated.

I'm going away in 2 nights due to work, I hope (need) Sunshine is better before then!

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Ok so I did the big water change and I am ashamed to say how much muck came out! I cleaned it as thoroughly as I could, I also tested my tap water before hand (I can't believe I never thought to check this before you guys mentioned it) and it's pretty perfect. Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate all 0 and ph 7.6, which is the ph for both my tanks.

Clementine was nearly impossible to catch and I hope I never have to do that again. She is an extremely flighty fish and is not super human friendly. I remember it took the fish shop about 5 minutes to capture her when I went to pick her up.

Anyway the big clean is done, I removed most of my driftwood. I also removed about half the gravel and will remove the rest over the next few weeks as I've decided I'll definitely have a bare bottom tank.

I didn't touch the filter bar adding some carbon to it, just to clean it up a bit. Is there any recommendation of how long this should stay in the filter? As I never use it.

All is good so far, before the water change, Sunshine was still bottom sitting, yet would not do it after I fed her for the day? Maybe she is just hungry? Lol.

Hope all continues to go well!

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Not sure whether to make a new post or not.

I did the big water change as you see, everything was going well and then I went away for 3 nights. My mum kept a strict eye on my fish with lots of careful instructing. She said Sunshine was really good. Since I've been home, Sunshine has been bottom sitting and it is getting worse!

I have a theory she may have been doing it while I was away but not so much and that when Mum walked in the room. Sunshine cheered up more as she does.

Now she is nearly constantly bottom sitting, except when I walk in the room or I'm near the tank or feed time. Though if I'm near the tank for a few minutes, she goes back to bottom sitting.

Key thing is, I notice she is doing really big yawns alot which I can think only means flukes?? But there is absolutely no other symptoms! And how could she have gotten flukes? I added new plants 3 weeks ago, which were salted before adding to the tank.

Thoughts? I need help :(

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Here is a video, sorry it is so dark but it is night time right now and the best I can do. It's just to get a general idea of how Sunshine is acting and there is a yawn about 25 seconds in. She is pretty much constantly bottom sitting now :(

Oh wow, youtube makes it even darker! If you want a better video, I'll try to do one in the morning.

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Aww. I'm sorry Andrea. :(

Let's just keep it in this thread, so that we are all familiar with tank history.

When a fish, who still can swim, starts to bottom sit, there are several possible causes:

1. Water quality issues (ammonia, nitrite, and to a lesser extent nitrates)

2. External parasites

3. Internal bacterial infection.

4. Internal parasitic infetion.

5. Some other internal issues.

We've ruled out 1 and 3, given the water readings and the recent antibiotic treatments. So now we just have to start working on the other possibilities. The yawning is a good clue that it might be flukes or some other ectoparasites, and so we should work on that first. Could you we some fluke tabs? I'd also like for you to do a salt dip on him.

Here are the directions:

SALT DIP

1. dissolve 30 teaspoons salt/gallon of water (30 grams/Liter, or 113.7g/gallon). This concentration is 3%. Let it match the temp/pH of the tank, and make sure to add de-chlorinator. You can also use tank water, but because you are adding a lot of salt per gallon, you will need to heat up the water. Hence, it's crucial that you cool it back down.

2. prepare a holding tank. This is a tank that is pH/temp matched with the main tank, and has been de-chlorinated. This can be a 5 gallon tub, with bubblestone, or something bigger.

3. make sure you have some sort of timer

4. gently lift the fish out of the tank, and place into temp/pH matched salt solution.

5. start timer.

6. if the fish stays continues to stay upright, or tilts over but can get back up, keep him/her in the salt solution for exactly 5 minutes.

7. remove fish from the salt, and place in holding tank. The reason why we do this is to: 1) give the fish a place to recover by him/herself, and 2)to let the fish purge out ammonia/wastes in a place that is not the main tank.

8. if the fish starts to lose balance and cannot get back before the minutes, remove him/her and place in holding tank, as described in #6.

9. after 1-2 hours, the fish can be moved back to the main tank. He/She might still be disoriented, but should be fine.

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I think I can get some fluke tablets, but I'm working tomorrow and I'm afraid I'll miss the opening hours of most shops especially as it is Australia Day. If not, I can definitely get some on Sunday.

Should I do the salt dip tomorrow still instead? I thought fish who had suffered from dropsy were then too sensitive to aquarium salt? Does it matter I only have a bucket of about 9 litres or 2.5 gallons?

Ah! I just realised I have no aquarium salt either :( There is a fish shop that I just found right near where I'll be working tomorrow, just have to see if I can get a chance to go check it out.

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The reason why I recommended salt dips, as opposed to a prolonged salt immersion, is that dips are much better for fish who have had a history of dropsy. There is always a risk here, but it's one that we may need to take, because while it's very like flukes, it may not be. The salt takes care of things the fluke tabs cannot.

You can actually get salt at the grocery store, as long as it is pure salt, without additives. :)

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Sunshine passed away yesterday :( I didn't think she would make it through the night and she was so terrible the next morning, she had little control over her body. The vet did all they could for her but the best thing to do was put her to sleep.

Thank you for all your help everyone, especially Alex! I'm absolutely devastated and I can't even stand to look at the tank without seeing Sunshine's wriggly body coming up to me. The spark has gone out of the tank and I will miss her so much :(

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I'm so sorry, Andrea. :(

Dropsy, unfortunately, is something that affect a fair number of goldfish, just as it can some other species of fish. It's a really tough thing to try to combat, because we know so little about it.

You did so much to help Sunshine!

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