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Tears in tail fin & white spots.


Guest Mr Grump

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Guest Mr Grump

The fish were watched-over last night. In the night, both Scooby & Basil were in the same net. I let Basil out into the tank in the morning. Scooby is very weak & hardly moves. Mango is the most active looking around the tank & also trying to bite Basil if she gets near him. Mango is also hungry & will eat everything, we are making sure that she doesn't double-up on med food. Mango did a lot of poop in the night. We are feeding med food morning & evening, with peas at lunchtime. Neither Scooby or Basil are showing any interest in food, despite it being made with garlic. The cycle has been hit badly with ammonia at 0.5ppm & nitrite 0ppm. pH was a little low again. We did a 75% change early morning & re-dosed the meds. I have left Scooby in the net.

I bought another net, so we can protect Basil if necessary. The tank room has been darkened, but I made a dark corner where Basil can go to hide from Mango. Both Mango & Basil's dorsal fins are erect, but Mango will still try to bite Basil. Scooby is still very weak. Sitting high in the water & barely moving. Are we waiting to see if Scooby feels better on his own, can we help him in some way?

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At this point, you are doing every you could, and so much more, to help and to give them comfort.

As far as medications go, there is nothing else to add. Anymore and it could tip them over the edge. We just have to wait and hope for the very best of outcomes.

How does it look with everyone in terms of ich?

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Guest Mr Grump

Thank you Alex

The Ich appears to be gone from the fish but on Basil particularly it has left many wounds. The insides of both Basil & Scooby's mouths are red. Basil still refuses food although Scooby ate a tiny portion of pea this evening. Scooby's dorsal fin is down & he tires from using his pectoral fins, giving them a rest when he can. I can see blood at the base of the pectorals. Basil has many blood marks on his body & at the base of his pectorals, but he is using them often. His dorsal fin is constantly erect, almost as though it has stiffened in place. The fins of both Scooby & Basil are in a terrible state & Scooby's net had bits of fin in it. Mango looks in a reasonable state, although she has some black/brown marks on her sides. Possibly scales growing back?

We are trying to settle to a 75% water change every 12 hours. We are water testing 4 times a day including pH which is occasionally dropping. We boost it with bi-carb. As we did the evening the water change, we let Scooby out of his net & he roamed the tank looking at the bottom. This is what triggered us to try some food with his & he took the portion of pea but was not interested in the med food. During the water change, Mango, Scooby & Basil were roaming the tank although Basil was mainly hiding from Mango. He has been doing that all day I suspect & may be getting very tired. Scooby has been in the net all day & was able to avoid Mango well, but after about an hour he became tired. We now have a net each for Scooby & Basil & they will spend the night in the nets. We have put a very small amount of med food in each of the nets.

We hope & pray that our 3 little people survive the night & get a little stronger tomorrow. We love them very much.

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Thank you

Basil has shown no interest in food today. He has previously tried to eat & spat it out, maybe he has learnt it hurts & doesn't try? Scooby showed interest in eating & ate about half a pea, then spat out maybe a half of that. He didn't then show any further interest. I think they try to eat, it hurts & then they don't try to eat again for several days. This means that they are not getting their internal meds.

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Guest Mr Grump

Thank you .

We have a pH issue in the quarantine. As expected, the Tetra Goldmeds killed the cycle & we are on regular 75% water changes every 12 hours. We re-dose the Godmeds after the water changes. At the end of the 12 hour period, the pH crashes from 7.4 to 6.6. Which we can boost with bi-carb, but we need to buffer this. KH is 1° at this low pH point. Our tap water is soft at only 2°, but the cycle restarting may be using carbonates. We have only an internal filter in the quarantine, can we buffer hardness by adding a bag or coral sand/gravel in the corner of the tank? My inclination is not to use chemicals, but of course will do so if there's no other way.

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Thanks.

We have tried Basil & Scooby with a little frozen brine shrimp to tempt them to eat. However they have ignored it.

I had a thought about the pH, after 12 hours, ammonia reaches 0.5ppm, the lowered pH would make the ammonia less harmful. I wonder which is worse, a pH drop of 0.8 or ammonia of 0.5ppm?

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I noticed Scooby having some trouble with his mouth this morning. There was some sort of membrane coming off the inside of his mouth. It was about quarter of an inch long & stringy. I was concerned that it was fungus & looked very carefully, but I could not see any more. Could this be a scab coming off? The membrane was outside his mouth but still hanging on by a little thread. He was trying to spit it out & it seemed to be causing him some discomfort trying to get rid of it. A little later it was gone & I can see no more around or in his mouth.

Both Basil & Scooby still have red on the insides of their mouths. The red marks have lessened on them both, in particular around their pectoral fins. They were both using the pectorals normally when swimming in the tank during the water change. Neither of them wanted to go back in the nets, but we put them back because they are still being nipped by Mango. They both now have a net each & look fairly relaxed in there. We have darkened the tank again for the day & will check often for pH. We have re-dosed the tank with Goldmeds. Mango is eating normally. No sign of Ich on any of the fish.

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Guest Mr Grump

How many days have they been on the medicated gel food now?

Sorry, I mis-read your question.

Mango has been on the med food for 7 days. Basil & Scooby have had medicated food for 4 days as they have both not eaten since Saturday.

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Actually, they are both pretty bad, and I wouldn't want to have to choose either.

Are you not using any dechlorinators? I noticed that in your initial answers.

We are using HMA filtered water which filters out chlorine & heavy metals. So do not need dechlorinator chemicals.

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Regarding Basil & Scooby not eating. How much of an issue in this?

We have some powdered dried baby brine shrimp for fry, we also have some metro powder & the wormer plus powder. Could we make up a liquid med food & syringe it into their mouths somehow?

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Actually, they are both pretty bad, and I wouldn't want to have to choose either.

Are you not using any dechlorinators? I noticed that in your initial answers.

We are using HMA filtered water which filters out chlorine & heavy metals. So do not need dechlorinator chemicals.

I understand, but when the cycle is broken like this, a conditioner that detoxifies ammonia/nitrite is very helpful. There are two: Seachem Prime, and Kordon Amquel Plus.

Regarding Basil & Scooby not eating. How much of an issue in this?

We have some powdered dried baby brine shrimp for fry, we also have some metro powder & the wormer plus powder. Could we make up a liquid med food & syringe it into their mouths somehow?

Let's give them a couple more days to heal. We may need to syringe feed.

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Night time again. We hope & pray that our poor little ones can grow stronger.

Mango is feeling well & is a constant eating & pooping machine. When Basil & Scooby are out in the tank she will constantly pick on them both. She tires them within an hour. We let them out while we are doing our 12 hourly water changes. After the water changes are done we put Basil & Scooby back in their nets to protect them from Mango. They don't like being put in the nets, but seem to settle quickly when in them.

During the water changes & the water level in low, Scooby in particular seems to scan the bottom for food. We have tried to feed him then, but he ignores it. Although I think that he does notice the food & decides against going for it.

Scooby has some slight blood marks at the base of his pectoral & pelvic fins. The pelvic fins were clamped, but they are not today. The tail & dorsal fins are a mess, with bits of fin coming off last night. His eyes are more clear than they were, no obvious blood marks elsewhere on his body. He gets tired easily, but only hides once he is tired.

Basil has slight blood marks at the base of his pectoral & pelvic fins. The pelvic fins are clamped. His dorsal fin is erect, but stays erect all the time. His body is covered in little pin pricks of blood, but they don't look so bad as they did yesterday. He is less active today though & when out in the tank does not move around so much. His tail fin is slightly clamped. Mango picks on him the most.

Mango looks healthy. She is acting normally & not resting very much at all. She has the occasional yawn. On her sides, where she lost scales, her body has black/brown patches. Also some black/brown patches on her fins.

Tonight we have done a 75% water change & re-dosed the meds. pH was at 7.2 so we added a small amount of bi-carb. Scooby & Basil are back in their nets.

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We have Nutrafin Cycle & Nutrafin Aqua Plus which came free with the tanks.

I can try to get Seachem Prime tomorrow if necessary.

Seachem Prime or Amquel Plus would be the best choices for a water conditioner right now because these two will detoxify the ammonia (there are no other water conditioners that work quite like this), I would go with Seachem Prime if you can find it simply because it is a bit more concentrated that Amquel.

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Guest Mr Grump

Thank you

My LFS have confirmed that they have Seachem Prime in stock. I will buy some today. With Seachem Prime, would we be able to reduce the amount of water changes to a single 85% per day?

This morning, all fish appear the same. We have not yet done the water change but are preparing to do it now.

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Do you remember my ammonia + nitrite rule. Use that with Prime :)

Please remind me?

Water change done. Neither Basil or Scooby would eat. Scooby looked slightly better from yesterday, but Scooby's fins are still a mess. No clamped fins although his dorsal fin looks in tatters. Basil about the same as yesterday. Basil's pelvis fins are no longer clamped, his dorsal fin is still stuck up. Both fish have lessened blood marks at the base of their pectoral fins. Basil's blood marks on his body are slowly improving. Mango looks well & is eating normally, she still has the dark brown marks on her sides & fins. Scooby & Basil are now back in their nets, after Mango had finished eating & checking for more food she was continually trying to nip Basil & Scooby. We have re-medicated the tank & I will be collecting some Seachem prime today. Also some bi-carb has been added.

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Test your tank for ammonia/nitrite daily. If these two added together are less than 1 ppm, you can skip the water change and just add a double dose of prime. If they equal 1ppm or greater, do a big water change.

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Guest Mr Grump

Understood

We actually test 3 times a day. The tank reaches 0.5ppm after 12 hours at which point we do the 75% water change. There are no Nitrites as the cycle is entirely broken.

I was a little unsure how much we could trust Seachem Prime as I understand that it just detoxifies the ammonia, so the ammonia is actually still there, just in a different form. We have just done a test, so I will add prime now & test again in 3 hours.

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