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Tears in tail fin & white spots.


Guest Mr Grump

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I should also note that the repashy foods can cause fins and faces to yellow due to the high algae content in the food. There was a good thread with pictures on this awhile ago, but it looks like the member has removed their pictures. But just wanted to throw that out there so that you do not worry too much about yellowing.

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Guest Mr Grump

Thank you. Med food only confirmed.

Regarding the yellow face of Scarlett, we have only rarely been feeding Soilent Green & yesterday was the first day we had fed Super Green. The normal diet would be NLS pellets, peas, & gel veggie food.

This morning they all rose for breakfast after a while apart from "Mango", a red & white (possible female). She was head standing on the gravel behind a filter pipe. So that she could have her med food, we had to gently push her into the tank, where she ate normally with the rest. She has gone back to head standing now.

Jasper, a 5" male Calico appears to have lost some weight. He is slower at feeding than the others, but we always check that he does get some food.

I think that we will try to get some more metro pills so that we can make up some medicated protein food, possibly Soilent Green.

We have dropped the feeding times to twice a day instead of three times a day, so that we can feed a reasonable quantity & everyone gets a share.

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Guest Mr Grump

I have collected some more Metro from the vet. We will use this to make up some more medicated food. I also picked up some more Paraguard from the pet shop.

Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrite 0ppm.

Mango has been head standing on the gravel today, She comes out into the tank occasionally. Scarlet (Red cap) is a regular bottom sitter, but comes out more often than Mango. Basil (Panda) is also still a regular bottom sitter, but comes out every now & then. Pumpkin still hangs around behind the filter outlets, sometimes head down, sometimes not. She comes out more often than the others when we are near. She has been playing near the surface. Scooby our other Panda male has been hanging around in the water flow. He has been mildly aggressive to any fish who come near to his space. We have one fish with an erect dorsal fin, Coojee a female Chocolate Orange. She has been the least affected so far. All fish seem to have very ragged fins. Ich still present on all fish.

We had on order some JBL Fert balls, they arrived yesterday. The Oranda tank has a small number of Goldfish friendly plants which are just stuck in the gravel. May we use the fert balls or shoudl we wait until the treatments are finished?

http://www.jbl.de/en/aquatics-freshwater-products/detail/2346/jbl-the-7-13-balls

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Two of the Oranda, Cookie (Chocolate orange female) & Jasper (Calico male) seem to have a slight cloudiness on at least one of their eyes. It's very difficult to photograph & we have already tried several times. It looks slightly like what I assume may be a heavier slime coating on their bodies from the Ich. That coating appears to be covering an eye. It's the best I can describe it.

Can anyone suggest what this might be?

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Guest Mr Grump

We tested early morning with Ammonia 0ppm & Nitrites 0ppm. Ammonia slightly spiked on our test this afternoon. Reading was less than 0.25ppm - say 0.2ppm. Nitrites were trace. We did a 20% water change with gravel clean & also serviced the filter that's nearest to where they are fed. This filter tends to get a little food & poop in the sponges. As usual, we swished the sponges & emptied the water from the filter. As always the ceramic nodules are left alone & the filter service takes no more than 20 minutes. We will test again in the morning.

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Thank you Tithra.

Water test this morning, Ammonia 0ppm, Nitrites trace.

Everyone up & eating med food, Mango was head down again & was last to get up, but she got up on her own for breakfast. After eating, she went straight back to her corner head down again.

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We noticed that there's not a lot of poop around. I'm wondering if the exclusive gel food maybe constipating them a little? They would generally have beans or peas every day.

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Thank you we will. I wanted to try to act on any constipation before it got to be an issue. Would peas be ok? Peas seem to work better on them.

So that I can understand the met-food-only thing. Is that because we don't want any food going through her that would give the parasites something to eat?

Pumpkin is the fish that we put in quarantine for a few days, which upset her a lot. She had what seemed to be the start of pine-coning. Since putting her in the main tank & treating with Paraguard & the met food she seems to have improved. She is a very playful fish so it can be hard to tell, but watching her this morning we think that she may have a swim bladder issue. She is staying at the top of the tank & to get down to the bottom she has to swim. The moment she stops swimming, she floats almost to the top again. For this to happen for an hour or so, could have been her playing. However she's been doing it all morning & it's possible that this was a little apparent last night too.

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Pumpkin is still having problem & floats to the top unless she makes an effort to swim down. She is straight & not laying sideways.

This afternoon, we seem to have had a 2nd attack cycle of Ich. I'm not sure how that is possible when the tank is treated with Paraguard? Most affected seems to be a young male Chocolate called Cookie. he has the white specs all over him & including some on one of his eyes.

Ichsecondcycle1_zps1f9d9036.jpgIchsecondcycle_zps55e4f924.jpg

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Pumpkin with buoyancy problems. I tried turning off the airstones to give her a break but she immediately went elsewhere in the tank in front of one of the filter outlets. I think that she may find the water flow between the airstones soothing for her Ich. With effort, she can get to the bottom of the tank, but cannot stay there.

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Pumpkin is still having problem & floats to the top unless she makes an effort to swim down. She is straight & not laying sideways.

This afternoon, we seem to have had a 2nd attack cycle of Ich. I'm not sure how that is possible when the tank is treated with Paraguard? Most affected seems to be a young male Chocolate called Cookie. he has the white specs all over him & including some on one of his eyes.

Ichsecondcycle1_zps1f9d9036.jpgIchsecondcycle_zps55e4f924.jpg

I hate to do this, but I honestly think we really need something stronger here than the paraguard unfortunately. This is a very bad infestation. Are the others looking this bad?

Can you call your LFS and find out what other ich medications they have on hand please?

Quick Cure would be preferable, but I don't think we have time to wait for shipping here. Let us know what you can get your hands on and we can figure out what would be the best choice.

I'm sorry, I'm sure this is very frustrating for you :(

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Guest Mr Grump

Good lord, sorry to see this. I know you were important alot from star fisheries. Did they arrive with noticeable illness? Have you spoken with star?

They did not arrive looking ill. But they became ill within a few days.

I have emailed Star Fisheries.

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Guest Mr Grump

Regarding the Ich

I contacted Seachem to tell them of the 2nd wave.

We are treating a tank against the Ich parasite. We are on day 3 & the tank is 240 litres, temperature is 22°C, Ammonia & Nitrites are zero. The tank is very lightly planted. We are treating with 30ml Paraguard every day. Near the end of the Paraguard 24 hour period, we are doing a 25% water change & gravel clean.

Today we have noticed what looks to be a second wave of the Ich attack Further most fish being covered with the parasite. I had assumed that Paraguard would kill the parasite while finding it's host. Please can you explain how we could get a second parasite wave?

Here is their response:

It is very critical that when you are treating for external parasites, you treat for a minimum of three weeks. The life cycle of parasites can last anywhere from 3-28 days and during that time, some of the parasites are in a dormant cyst form and cannot be treated with a medication. Only when they burst out of the cyst, can they become susceptible to a medication. This can occur anytime during that lifecycle and it is completely normal for the parasites to go away and than come back with a vengeance within that time period. This is why you need to treat for a minimum of 3 weeks with whatever medication you are using and in you case, ParaGuard needs to be dosed daily for this treatment period. It only remains active for 24 hours, thus will not build up to toxic levels or become dangerous. You can perform your regular water change routine, as long as you dose the ParaGuard afterward on that day.

My reply:

Thank you for your reply.

I understand the 21 day treatment period, it was just that I did not expect a 2nd wave of Ich as I assumed that this wave would attack the fish through the water & that the Paraguard would kill any parasites while in that stage.

Edited by Mr Grump
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Guest Mr Grump

Pumpkin is worse today. She is now finding it harder to swim to the bottom & has to try 2 or 3 times to be successful. Video taken yesterday is on page 7.

Hardly any poop in the tank this morning. May we feed peas/beans again?

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Yes, definitely feed peas again, but don't forget the med food as well.

Have you asked around to see what ich medications might be obtained? Once we have a list of choices, we can help you choose.

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Guest Mr Grump

Thank you

We will feed peas again & in addition to the medicated food.

These are the items we have in stock that claim to treat Ich:

Seachem Paraguard (in use)

API White Spot Cure

Tetra Goldmed

Other items in stock for fungus:

API Primafix

eSHa 2000

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We now have 2 fish who are floating at the surface. An additional fish looks to be having problems staying near the bottom. Peas have been fed to all fish for lunch.

I have a response from Seachem that if our Ich is severe, then they recommend their Cupramine product.

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html

What do you think please? Also how can we help the fish at the surface?

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Guest Mr Grump

We have lost another fish.

Coojee, a lovely Chocolate Orange girl. She used to tear around the tank having such fun. Until very recently, she seemed the least affected by the illnesses. Today she has been having trouble going below the surface of the tank, although she ate peas this afternoon & seemed not too bad. We saw she was ill this evening while feeding their medicated food & I cradled her in my hands in the tank to give her some respite from the water flow & one of the other fish was hassling her. We put her in a glass bowl filled with tank water & she passed away with my wife sitting with her while I was printing off how to use the close oil. We are heartbroken. How do we save the rest of them?

Rest in peace little Coojee.

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I am so so very sorry that you have lost another :( This is honestly the worst case of ich/parasitic infection I have seen here in quite awhile, I'm sure that this is really very tough on your poor fish.

Either the White spot cure or gold med would be best in terms of what you have on hand.

The goldmed will be a little more aggressive because it contains formaldehyde in addition to the malachite green. You will need to get all of the paraguard out of the tank with some big water changes. You can also use carbon to help with medication removal if you have it.

Also, these meds will kill your cycle, so you'll want to save some cycled media if you can by placing it in a filter on another tank. You can 'feed' the empty tank liquid ammonia if you can find it or fish food (this will decay over time and turn into ammonia to feed the BBs to keep your colony going).

In terms of the floating issue, they are currently on gel food which is good, they are also being fed the medications we would typically feed if we believed the SBD was the result of an internal bacterial or parasitic infection. At this point the focus really needs to be on getting rid of the ich, because if this is not under control they are not going to last long :(

In order to reduce stress also please keep the tank lights off as much as possible.

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