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Tears in tail fin & white spots.


Guest Mr Grump

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Guest Mr Grump

Scooby did a long very stringy poop yesterday. We're wondering if the symptoms he is displaying this morning are Fluke. Maybe the Fluke have cycled & this has left him internal injuries, or maybe the Fluke are getting worse? If it is injuries, is all we can do is to sit with him & pray? If it is still Fluke, would a Wormer plus bath help, or should we buy a small tank for him & treat that with Wormer plus?

His symptoms now are as they were last week when we thought we had lost him. He just pulled through that one, but now he is weaker from not eating.

Mango & Basil had this flashing & jerking symptoms yesterday. Could this be internal Flukes reaching their cycle & detaching themselves, leaving injuries?

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also,

what do you have available to you? do you have a tub of 8-10 gallons? a heater, airpump and Epsom salt?

is it you that we arranged the Metronidazole for from member U.K becs? if so, how many tablets did you receive and how many do you have left? they are 250mg Metronidazole, correct?

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Hi helen, Mr Grump organised his own meds from the vet.

Thanks for taking a look here! :)

thanks hun.. i will check back to see what he got from the vet. there's 13 pages of info and already 10pm here O.o

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all i can see, just by brisking through the pages is Protozin and Goldmed, which neither will assist in treating with popeye. we are now dealing with the reality of a secondary infection that is caused by the primary influence of parasites.

the best treatment is the Metronidazole, and now, Epsom salt.

the only way to treat is in a separate QT with heater and airpump... will require daily water changes.

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Thank you Helen

The video is still uploading. ETA 12 minutes.

We got Metronidazole from the vet, but this is all used in the food. We have a small pot of 5g Seachem Metronidazole which we imported from the USA. We also still have our Wormer Plus (Flubendazole). We have Epsom Salt. Daily water changes are fine. We are already doing this in the quarantine tank.

We have a spare air pump & spare heater. We have a 14 litre (3.7gal) water change bucket or we can buy a small tank today. What size should we get?

Edit: Both Basil & Scooby have popeye. Mango seems fine. Could we place Mango back in the main tank & treat Scooby & Basil in the current tank? In the main tank we would need to only put meds which don't kill the cycle because the tank is too big for large daily water changes. We are doing these changes daily in the quarantine tank already, so are used to this.

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Second video showing condition of all 3 remaining fish.

Panda Scooby in the corner has slight popeye, he is jerking sometimes but sits still mostly this morning. he looks in pain.

Panda Basil has worse popeye, but eats & behaves well.

Red & White Mango seems fine. Eating & behaving very well.

Suggesting moving Mango to main tank to enable intensive treatment of Basil & Scooby? Particularly Scooby.

Video upload will be complete in 30 minutes.

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We have lost Scooby. We sat with him all this morning. He was our most stunning fish & we both loved him very much. Of all our dear Orandas, he was the most stunning swimmer & was graceful in the water.

We love you Scooby & will miss you so much. We are so sorry.

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ok, so, Mr Grump & i have discussed the following.

we have a few issues, yes, sadly Scooby didn't make it :( RIP dear Scooby :(

so, it appears that Basil who has popeye is begining to pinecone. we have discussed the following with the remainder of fish being Mango and Basil.

Mango is going back into the main tank where she will continue to receive the remainder course of antibiotics (orally) as well as continue the parasite treatment into the water being the Flubendazole.

Basil will remain in QT. Basil as of today will begin an 8 consecutive day course of Epsom salt. in addition to this, he will receive (orally) 1% of his body weight of the medicated gelfood that Mr Grump has already made up. Basil will also be receiving 100% daily waterchanges and have his QT temp raised from 20C to 26-28C (28C translates to 80F)

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We started the Goldmed treatment in the quarantine tank on 26th. So they have been treated with GoldMed for 7 days. The Goldmed bottle recommends treating for 10-15days for Ich, so they are 3 days short. Goldmed is also supposed to treat for Flukes.

We would rather not dose Goldmed in the main tank because it kills the cycle & the main tank is too big for constant water changes. We still have Seachem Paraguard in stock if required, or we could delay a few days & buy Seachem Cupramine. (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Cupramine.html)

The main tank has just had a 100% water change & is refilled & running. We are just getting it up to temperature ready for Mango & will dose the tank with Flubendazole unless advised otherwise. We will continue Mango with the med food until Tuesday & revert for advise. Mango does not have popeye, she is eating meds well, her fins are looking good, but she has fluke symptoms still. She has no trace of Ich.

Once the main tank is ready & Mango transferred, we will do a 100% water change on the quarantine tank & then refill to 50% full & slowly increase temperature. We will then treat with Epsom salts. Basil is eating well, but is swollen & has popeye.His scales are slightly raised. He has no trace of Ich.

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We have completed the transfers. Mango is now in the main tank being treated with Wormer Plus. She does not seem bothered by it at the moment. She is very happy to be in the main tank as there are lots of things for her to do. I have increased the temperature to 23°C & will further increase tomorrow. Mango ate her med foods fine.

Basil is in the quarantine tank & his popeye seems to have reduced a little even before treatment. There is still some beginning of pineconing. I don't think he is happy in the quarantine tank but doesn't seem over stressed. he ate his med food & spat them out a few times but ended by eating them all. Temperature has been increased to 22°C & I will increase this further tomorrow.

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This morning, Mango came to the front of the tank to meet us & ask for food. She ate well & looks well. I will increase the temperature this morning.

Basil was sleeping in the middle of the tank, but when we came close, he went to a far corner, I think that he is stressed from being in the quarantine on his own. he also didn't like the transfer for the 100% water change yesterday. His popeye is reduced as it was yesterday, there is still some pine coning which doesn't seem to have got worse. He initially didn't come for food, but again I think he was hiding from us. Eventually he ate well. I will increase his temperature this morning.

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This morning, Mango came to the front of the tank to meet us & ask for food. She ate well & looks well. I will increase the temperature this morning.

Basil was sleeping in the middle of the tank, but when we came close, he went to a far corner, I think that he is stressed from being in the quarantine on his own. he also didn't like the transfer for the 100% water change yesterday. His popeye is reduced as it was yesterday, there is still some pine coning which doesn't seem to have got worse. He initially didn't come for food, but again I think he was hiding from us. Eventually he ate well. I will increase his temperature this morning.

i have to say, i am liking the sounds of this update :) keep at it hun, i think things might be making a turn for the better :heart

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Thanks Helen

Both tanks now have a temperature increase of 1°C, (main 23°C, quarantine 22°C) I will increase again this afternoon.

Interestingly, now that we are not dosing with Tetra Goldmeds, the quarantine tank is not getting pH crashes, despite it being only half full. It would appear that although Tetra Goldmeds are effective against Ich & they also may have an effect to help repair wounds & fins, they also create a pH crash in addition to wiping-out the bio cycle.

In the quarantine tank, we are using the Fluval U2 internal filter for water circulation & aeration. The U2 has an attachment on the filter outflow to add bubbles. The air pump we tried, is meant for a bigger tank & the bubbles were too strong. We have a smaller adjustable air pump on order.

Both fish appear to be handling their tank medications well. There is no sign of Ich.

Yesterday, to try to reduce stress on Basil for the water change, we used a breeding tank net to catch him, then keep him in a container, then return him to the tank. It meant that we only had to catch him once. However it was still stressful for him. We will try to keep it darker for him this evening, unless anyone has other ideas how to make it easier for him?

http://www.seapets.co.uk/products/aquarium-supplies/fish-tank-equipment/fish-breeding/net-breeding-trap-fine-mesh.html

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I'm at home for lunch time. Basil's pine coning looks much worse & all the scales are raised. One has fallen off. Basil is still acting well & came to greet me. His popeye looks the same.

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Basil's pine coning is still bad, most of his scales are on end. He still has his popeye. He is gulping air at the surface. The daily water change has been done & temperature raised to 24°C. He will come to the surface, gulp air 4 or 5 times, then go back down to doing Basil things. He is tending later in the day to be less "forward" & has spent a little time in a corner.

I'm not sure why he would be gulping the air? Is the water too warm for him? There is not airstone yet, (we have a new air pump on order) but the internal filter is set to aerate the water. Also we changed the water only 2 hours ago. Why would his pine coning be getting worse in the Epsom Salts?

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yes, the matter can get worse before it gets better. it's not unusual that this happens.

my advice to Mr Grump is only for the next 24 hours, he is to increase the epsom to 1/2 teaspoon and then decrease it to 1/4 teaspoon on the next waterchange. meds continue as previously administered.

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Thank you Helen

We have added an additional quarter teaspoon of Epsom salts making a total of half a teaspoon for 45 litres. Tank temp is currently 26°C.

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Basil video this morning. He tends to prefer to sit behind the filter. He comes out to greet us, no problem eating, but after doing his little Basil things he goes back behind the filter.

(Video upload ETA 10:00 GMT)

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Basil is worse this afternoon. He now rarely comes out to meet us & tends to bottom sit behind the filter. His pine coning is worse & he is more bloated. We tried him with a small piece of medicated food & he was initially not interested, but eventually ate the small piece.

We did the 100% water change & Basil this time hid from us under the internal filter. He must hate being moved so much, we were in tears as we were transferring him. After the water change & clean, we put him back in & he perked up slightly, having a look around, then went back to his corner bottom sitting.

Epsom Salts are back to quarter teaspoon, tank temp is 26°C. We are making his new met-only veggie med food right now.

New video:

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