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A hard decision :(


Black

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Hello everyone,

I have been staying at my mum's house for the past several days and as usual I have been worrying about Googles. I spoke to my boyfriend on the phone this evening and he told me that Googles has lost about 20 scales today. He also said that his biggest eye looks a bit sore.

He was losing the occassional scale before I got Pickles but I think I may have made a mistake getting a new fish, as I am not sure if this huge scale loss is due to an infection or from being pestered too much.

I have not long stopped 14 days of MMs and this made a huge improvement to his energy and balance and it made me feel wrong for ever even thinking about clove oil.

As usual though it hasn't taken long for some other horrible thing to happen to him. I hope I am making sense, I am very tearful because I think I have made the decision to put him to sleep.

I feel like a horrible person because I feel like I am taking the easy option. I could take Pickles back to the fish store, and with ur guys help, try and find a solution to his scale loss and struggle on as before... or I could end his life, whichwould be a huge relief but also very upsetting and I would feel selfish.

I love this fish and I have no idea what to do :( I know I have discussed it with you before but I think this really is decision time

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I'm sorry to hear this . Whatever you do we know you are thinking of poor googles first . If you think this really is decision time you could just try to treat him one more time to know that you tried everything you could before clove oil . Good luck with whatever you choose . :heart

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I am so sorry you are facing this decision. I fully understand how difficult it is to make the decision - really either way you choose.

My fish Puff was sick on and off for at least a year before I finally made the decision to euthanize. He would get better for a short period of time making me hopeful that I had finally 'cured' him, only to fall ill (and usually worse than before) shortly thereafter. It was hard every time to not euthanize him because I didn't want him to suffer, and also difficult to think about euthanizing him because I didn't want to give up on him.

Anyway, I guess all that is to say that I understand how hard this is. None of us can make the decision for you. However we will certainly be there to support you in whatever way we can. If you want to try to nurse him back to health again we can support you in that - regained balance certainly sounds hopeful. And if you feel like it is time to let go, I don't think anyone here would judge you for that. You have gone through a lot with this fish and done your best to help him. Some fish are unfortunately prone to recurrent issues, and may never really get better despite our best efforts. Googles may be one of these fish.

Sorry you are struggling with this decision :hug

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4th the divider. :( It's good to try your best to treat Googles, but if you think he has suffered enough pain, it would be best to put him to sleep in the big pond in the sky. I hope Googles feels better. :hug

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I'm sorry you are struggling with this. I would too. But I have read your posts and believe that you have done what you can do for Googles. As I see it, his body is deteriorating, and I can't imagine that that's a good quality of life. I'm sorry. :hug

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Black, could you get pictures of where the scales are lost? I would like to see if there is any accompanying infection.

I'm so sorry that you are having to even consider these tough questions. Hang in there!

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Thank you for your ideas and support guys. I will be back home tomorrow evening and will take some pictures. My boyfriend is at work all day and then travelling to see me so unfortunately he can't do it for me.

My bf doesn't want to give up on him which gives me some strength to look into this. I think we have made the decision to take our little ranchu back to the store... or if anyone wants to adopt him, I would be much happier with that.

I would like to put our little wc minnow and long finned zebra danio up for adoption too as I think Googles needs my undivided attention.

A divider would be ok if we had a longer tank, but because the tank is quite square it wouldn't give Googs much room as he can only stay at the bottom.

I think I will try salt as jamie suggested - 0.1%??

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Where did the white clouds and danio live in? If you rehome them, is their tank large enough for Googles? From what I can tell, this fish is quite little, correct?

I've had a teles in a similar situation last year and decided she could not be kept with the other goldfish. As she was quite small, about 30g weight total with minimal bioload for a tank, I decided to set up an unused 10g for her - and it made a big difference in her well being. She still had her issues, but the smaller, lower tank with decreased water pressure seemed to make her feel much better and she became much more active again.

If your wc/danio setup is large enough, maybe keep her in there so Pickles can not harass Googles?

Just my two cents.

Either way, I agree with what has been said before. I know you have been going through a lot with Googles already and no one would even think that you are "giving up". If anything, you'd "let him go". :)

See how he does when you come back, and if you can possibly improve the situation for him, and then make up your mind. You know we all are here for you :)

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Hi Fang, the 2 little ones live with Googs in a 27ish gal and have never bothered him- they completely ignore him. The reason I was thinking of having a Googles only tank is because any food they don't eat/gets blown downwards by the current, Googs tends to hoover up which isn't that big a deal but I like to know exactly what he is eating.

Goog's old tank is 15 gal and he only had a sponge filter which is why I upgraded. Googs is also only 31g, he's put on at least 5g the last month but he hasn't increased in length. I think he is stunted so he would probably be fine in a smaller tank. I would just need to find a decent filter. I have often thought shallower water would do him good, but I wasn't sure if it was better than volume.

I'm not sure I'll be able to look after 2 tanks, I find it hard enough with one and there's lack of room. I'll talk to my bf and see what we can come up with. I appreciate your ideas. Sorry, I feel like I have just been thinking aloud :)

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Black, I feel bad because you came here for support to euthanize a fish with reoccurring problems, and I don't think you are getting much of it. It is OK to let him go. You know him best. You know his difficulties, and you know whether he seems likely to ever get better. I don't think you should feel pressured to try every single thing (a lot of people don't want that for themselves!), and I don't think it's OK to give up all your healthy fish and your fun in the hobby to take care of Googs.

I'm not trying to talk you into it. He's your pet. But if you are going to post about it here, someone will always come up with something else to try. And sometimes that just makes the decision harder for the fish keeper, who already is facing the loss of a finned friend.

I'm sorry. :hug

Edited by ShawneeRiver
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Thank you Shawnee. I understand what you are saying. I think I would feel better letting him go if I looked into his scale loss before hand. I think i want to give him one last chance.... You are right though, there is just stress and worry now, I don't get much enjoyment from it anymore. But then looking after life is a responsibility, and not just about fun I guess.

Edited by Black
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I am home finally. I have never seen him looking so bad. Although he was shedding scales before hand, I think Pickles nibbling at him as made it a lot worse.

Here are the photos. I hope they are clear enough. His body is a lot whiter where the scales are missing than the photos show.

G2-1.jpg

G1-1.jpg

G4-1.jpg

G3-1.jpg

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Ok it's 3am. I have moved him to our bedroom until I figure out what I'm doing. He's in his old tank (65 litres) and have half filled it with some primed tap water of the same temperature, and with nothing more than an air stone. There's prob just under 10gals of water in there

Will this be ok for the next 24 hours?

G5.jpg

Edited by Black
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Yes, as long as it is oxygenated he will be fine in there, just keep an eye on the parameters. That lowered level of water is perhaps better for him considering he is constantly bottom sitting. Fingers crossed for him. You're doing such a great job with him :hug

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That should be fine for the next 24 hours to a few days, provided that you check the parameters to make sure they are OK.

I think this is as good a place as any to present my thoughts. As we discussed some few months ago when Googs became a sinker, this is a permanent condition that will only worsen with time. Depending on the fish, the setup, and sorts of unknowns, the rate of decline will vary. At this stage, given the extensive scale loss, and other issues, I do not think that Googs will make any sort of drastic improvement. We can't even begin to guess why there is so much scale loss (it's likely an infection), and it's not something we can treat. He will be harassed, as can happen to sick and injured fish. Also as we discussed long ago, I will support and defend whatever decision you choose to make.

I have always refrained from suggesting to anyone that they do one thing or the other in situations like this, because I think it's a decision that you should make on your own, knowing that there is no wrong here. I will help you, either way. :hug

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There has been no more scales lost over night.

The place I am at at the moment is that I will likely have to euth one day, maybe some day soon but not just yet. I believe his scale loss is due to bullying (which must have got much worse in my absence over Xmas because of what I saw last night when I got home.) I believe he must have lost so many as he was already in a weakened state. The thing with Googles is that he can eat by himself, and is upright and moving nearly all of the time. I do not want to euth just because I made a stupid mistake and added another fish against everyones advice.

My bf seems adamant that we "should love him and take care of him" and with his support I feel that we should give him one last try. If Googs was in obvious discomfort I would let him go, but because he seems the same as ever (wriggling and foraging and eating) then I feel he isn't ready to let go yet. My heart is telling me that, for now, this is the right thing to do. I bought some clove oil today to have on hand if things suddenly take a turn for the worse

The next thing is to know what to do next. He is in a tank without a filter. We may take Pickles back to the lfs tomorrow as it isn't open today. Or we can try and manage 2 tanks and I'll put in his old sponge filter, and do large WCs every other day, which shouldn't be too hard if he's only in 10gal of water.

Is salt the next step to healing?

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Yes, as long as it is oxygenated he will be fine in there, just keep an eye on the parameters. That lowered level of water is perhaps better for him considering he is constantly bottom sitting. Fingers crossed for him. You're doing such a great job with him :hug

Thanks Narny :)

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There has been no more scales lost over night.

The place I am at at the moment is that I will likely have to euth one day, maybe some day soon but not just yet. I believe his scale loss is due to bullying (which must have got much worse in my absence over Xmas because of what I saw last night when I got home.) I believe he must have lost so many as he was already in a weakened state. The thing with Googles is that he can eat by himself, and is upright and moving nearly all of the time. I do not want to euth just because I made a stupid mistake and added another fish against everyones advice.

My bf seems adamant that we "should love him and take care of him" and with his support I feel that we should give him one last try. If Googs was in obvious discomfort I would let him go, but because he seems the same as ever (wriggling and foraging and eating) then I feel he isn't ready to let go yet. My heart is telling me that, for now, this is the right thing to do. I bought some clove oil today to have on hand if things suddenly take a turn for the worse

The next thing is to know what to do next. He is in a tank without a filter. We may take Pickles back to the lfs tomorrow as it isn't open today. Or we can try and manage 2 tanks and I'll put in his old sponge filter, and do large WCs every other day, which shouldn't be too hard if he's only in 10gal of water.

Is salt the next step to healing?

If you want to give him another chance, I honestly think this small tank, half filled, will work just fine. Being less active than other fish he does not require so much swimming room.

How well does he do with filter currents? I don't know what filters etc they sell in your area, but if you find some small in tank filter like the Whisper 10i, that would be perfect. http://c3.wag.com/images/products/p/upg/upg-258_1z.jpg

Since it is in-tank, you can install it close to the bottom to reduce massive splash. I'd install it at a height where the lip of the filter outlet is about 4-5cm above the water level. This will produce quite a bit of surface agitation but not a whole lot of current. You might not even need an air stone that way.

I love these filters for small QT setups.

Or you could stick with the sponge filter, and get a nice bunch of some fast growing plants like anacharos/elodea, cabomba, wisteria (anacharis is one of the fastest growing though) and let them float in your tank. These plants suck up a butt load of ammonia.

But again, keep Googles' well being in mind too. If he does not seem happy, then maybe it is time to let him go. It's a good idea to first see where the scale shedding came from though. :)

I am saying this because unless you really want to, you should not return Pickles yet, because - and I sure hope I am wrong with this - the point where you have to let Googles go might come sooner than later, and you will regret having give up Pickles so early.

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There has been no more scales lost over night.

The place I am at at the moment is that I will likely have to euth one day, maybe some day soon but not just yet. I believe his scale loss is due to bullying (which must have got much worse in my absence over Xmas because of what I saw last night when I got home.) I believe he must have lost so many as he was already in a weakened state. The thing with Googles is that he can eat by himself, and is upright and moving nearly all of the time. I do not want to euth just because I made a stupid mistake and added another fish against everyones advice.

My bf seems adamant that we "should love him and take care of him" and with his support I feel that we should give him one last try. If Googs was in obvious discomfort I would let him go, but because he seems the same as ever (wriggling and foraging and eating) then I feel he isn't ready to let go yet. My heart is telling me that, for now, this is the right thing to do. I bought some clove oil today to have on hand if things suddenly take a turn for the worse

The next thing is to know what to do next. He is in a tank without a filter. We may take Pickles back to the lfs tomorrow as it isn't open today. Or we can try and manage 2 tanks and I'll put in his old sponge filter, and do large WCs every other day, which shouldn't be too hard if he's only in 10gal of water.

Is salt the next step to healing?

If you want to give him another chance, I honestly think this small tank, half filled, will work just fine. Being less active than other fish he does not require so much swimming room.

How well does he do with filter currents? I don't know what filters etc they sell in your area, but if you find some small in tank filter like the Whisper 10i, that would be perfect. http://c3.wag.com/images/products/p/upg/upg-258_1z.jpg

Since it is in-tank, you can install it close to the bottom to reduce massive splash. I'd install it at a height where the lip of the filter outlet is about 4-5cm above the water level. This will produce quite a bit of surface agitation but not a whole lot of current. You might not even need an air stone that way.

I love these filters for small QT setups.

Or you could stick with the sponge filter, and get a nice bunch of some fast growing plants like anacharos/elodea, cabomba, wisteria (anacharis is one of the fastest growing though) and let them float in your tank. These plants suck up a butt load of ammonia.

But again, keep Googles' well being in mind too. If he does not seem happy, then maybe it is time to let him go. It's a good idea to first see where the scale shedding came from though.

I am saying this because unless you really want to, you should not return Pickles yet, because - and I sure hope I am wrong with this - the point where you have to let Googles go might come sooner than later, and you will regret having give up Pickles so early.

I agree.

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Having not had Pickles that long, and as cute as he is, I haven't got that strong a bond with him. My bf and I have discussed it and he really doesn't want another tank.

So little Pickles is going back tomorrow. If I have to let Googles go, whenever that may be, I think I may take a little break from keeping goldfish.

I have just taken a video of him on my bf's iphone. The quality isn't great but it will give you an idea as to why I want to work through this scale loss. He just doesn't look like a fish at death's door to me.

So... When I return him to his proper tank tomorrow. . do I salt? do I prazi? If so I need to order some

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