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tastyworms

Bottom Sitting

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Other Required Info:


    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level (tank): 0
  • * Nitrite Level (tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level (Tank) 160+ (now under 10)
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap): 0
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap) 0
  • * Nitrate level (Tap) 0
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) PH looks to be between 7 and 7.5 can't tell, KH 120, GH 180
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Was using API strips for the past 2 months, switched back to API drops today.
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Aquaclear 70
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? API Stresscoat
  • * Water temperature? 75
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? Weekly, 33% - 50%

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today, 20 Gallons
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 30 Gallons, 5 years
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 Standard Goldfish, 8 inches (not sure of weight)
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Soilent Green Twice a day about 4 mouthfuls
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? No
  • * Any medications added to the tank? No
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) None
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? Frayed Tailfin
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Bottom sitting when he thinks I'm not looking, although he'll move if I go anywhere near the tank and beg for food.
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. None
  • * You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.

http://imgur.com/a/glJfz pictures

So, I've had a likely ongoing water quality issue for the past couple of months and I'm pretty sure TJ has nitrate poisoning. I was using API test strips and they were consistently showing 0-20ppm Nitrate and 0 Amm and 0 Nitrite. So I figured my water changes were sufficient. However, this morning he was sitting on the bottom of the tank and not moving which is unusual. I tested the water with the drops and it was pretty much off the charts bad in the Nitrate (160 is highest on test) area. So I did a large water change and the nitrates are at about 10ppm now. I plan on doing another 50% water change tomorrow to get it closer to 0.

He bottom sits without interaction, but it's impossible to get a video of it because as soon as I get within his range of vision, he gets up and swims at me begging for food.

The question is, aside from improving water quality, what else should I do to maximize his chances? I read some a post about salt, but I tend to be rather be conservative with treatment until I talk to someone.

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When the nitrates are that high, it is recommended to do several small water changes over a few days to bring them down slowly. Going from extremely high nitrate to very low nitrate can be a big shock for fish that are accustomed to really high nitrates. I know the water change has already been done, but I just wanted to put that out there for future reference and for anyone else in a similar situation who may be reading the thread. :)

I think adding .1% salt is a good idea. Has his tail fin always looked so frayed, or is that a new development?

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Relatively new, last couple of months. It started as a hole and tore into what you see now. I'm not sure if the hole was caused by getting stuck on an ornament or not. There used to be a bridge in there a couple of months ago, which I took out when I noticed the hole.

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Okay, salt at .1% will be a great place to start.

Have you ever used prazi or .3% salt on this fish before? The torn tail fin could just be an injury, or it could also be from external parasites, so that's why I ask about these treatments. In case you aren't familiar, here's a link that explains all about using salt as a treatment: http://www.kokosgoldfish.invisionzone.com/forum/index.php?/topic/94546-on-the-use-of-salt/

.1% salt is pretty mild and it's usually what's recommended as a first step for issues like this. :)

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Do parasites normally show up in tanks unannounced? He's been alone for a couple of years, no additions other than treated tap water. Never used salt or Prazi on him.

I will start with the .1% salt tomorrow. Any restrictions on feeding him?

Edit: forgot the decimal on the salt ;)

Edited by tastyworms

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If you changed 20 gallons from your 30 gallon tank, and your nitrates are now 10ppm, they should have been around 30ppm before the change which isn't horrible. I would just start changing 50-70% each week and you should be good from now on. :)

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Also, since he is bottom sitting a little, I would totally treat with Prazi and Salt for 4 - 6 rounds to be safe. Especially since he's never been treated before.

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Do parasites normally show up in tanks unannounced? He's been alone for a couple of years, no additions other than treated tap water. Never used salt or Prazi on him.

I will start with the .1% salt tomorrow. Any restrictions on feeding him?

Edit: forgot the decimal on the salt ;)

Typically every tank has some small level of bacteria or parasites that are potentially harmful. In most cases though, the fish's immune system does a good job of warding them off. It's when they are under stress from something (perhaps water quality in this case) that they're more susceptible to things and can become sick.

You can just feed him as normal.

I like Jenny's suggestion of using prazi and salt (up to .3%) as if you were treating a new fish in quarantine, just because he has never had this treatment before and it is fairly mild.

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Will go with recommended treatment. As Jenny points out something doesn't add up with the nitrates. I think I cleaned the glass off inside before the test. Could that have spoken the nitrate test?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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Hi Chris,

Fish can generate at least a partial immunity to flukes, so under normal conditions, one might be able to keep the infection at pretty low (sub-clinical) levels. Stress changes the whole picture, and the chronically high levels of nitrates can cause a stressed fish to have depressed immune responses, allowing pathogens the upper hand.

I concur with Ms.Jenny's recommendation of 4 rounds of Prazipro, with the first two rounds being double dosed + 0.3%, followed by single doses and 0.1% to no salt.

Good luck!

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Added 3 tsp of Prazi, salt will have to wait until tomorrow. Mine all has anti caking agents in it...

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Get Morton's Canning & Pickling salt for your grocery store, Chris. It's the most economical.

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When the nitrates are that high, it is recommended to do several small water changes over a few days to bring them down slowly. Going from extremely high nitrate to very low nitrate can be a big shock for fish that are accustomed to really high nitrates. I know the water change has already been done, but I just wanted to put that out there for future reference and for anyone else in a similar situation who may be reading the thread. :)

I think adding .1% salt is a good idea. Has his tail fin always looked so frayed, or is that a new development?

I have to respectfully disagree here. There may be times where a more conservative approach is better, for example an older fish that has been living in poor water conditions many years - the shock of a 100% water change may be too stressful, but generally, I believe it is better to fix the water quality issue asap. The small stressor of going from high nitrates to low, to me, is going to be less detrimental than continuing to allow the fish to experience poor water quality over a number of days, particularly when we know the potential dangers of nitrate values that high.

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There may be times where a more conservative approach is better, for example an older fish that has been living in poor water conditions many years - the shock of a 100% water change may be too stressful

Yes, that is exactly what I perceived this situation to be. It sounded like Chris had been using test strips for 5 years up until now. Since those tests are unreliable and he recently tested with a drop test to find that the nitrates are higher than he thought, I was under the impression that the nitrates had been very high for a number of months or even years without him realizing it.

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160+ to 10ppm thats quite a drop in NitrAtes :o

I'm thinking it's actually impossible in hindsight. The tests did read those numbers, but I think it's because I cleaned the glass before hand and maybe put a bunch of junk in the water column.

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Get Morton's Canning & Pickling salt for your grocery store, Chris. It's the most economical.

Could not find this salt at the grocery store. Does this one look OK? It seems to meet the standards in the salt use thread.

H0lVZ.jpg

mUhtC.jpg

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Perfect. That works, Chris. We just don't want anti-caking agents etc. :)

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There may be times where a more conservative approach is better, for example an older fish that has been living in poor water conditions many years - the shock of a 100% water change may be too stressful

Yes, that is exactly what I perceived this situation to be. It sounded like Chris had been using test strips for 5 years up until now. Since those tests are unreliable and he recently tested with a drop test to find that the nitrates are higher than he thought, I was under the impression that the nitrates had been very high for a number of months or even years without him realizing it.

Has not been 5 years, but it may have been 6 months. I don't have a good history of the nitrates because of the inaccuracy of the strips. He's been getting bigger and the tank is getting smaller relatively so I'm sure there was a nitrate creep that my water changes weren't fully staving off.

As Ms. Jenny points out going from 160 to 10ppm with a 20g water change (66%) is probably not possible. So I think I must have stirred some stuff up with the cleaning magnet that made the tests spike. While that might be good news, it might also rule out nitrate poisoning and something unknown is going on which I hope the Prazi and salt will help with. It makes me worry more, because I rather something be my fault so I can prevent it in the future then something random I can't control.

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Added .1% salt this afternoon. Which was 30 level teaspoons in a gallon of treated water.

When I get to the third day, and bring it up to .3% salt, the second treatment of Prazi is due. I don't have to do a water change before adding more Prazi, do I?

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No, I think you should be OK, although the less organics in the water, the more effective the Prazi will be. Hence, the recommendation to do a good WC etc before starting treatment. You did that, so I think we are good.

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Hows the fish's personality? Happy or seems depressed?

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He seems depressed until I wall by the tank then he gets up and is excited and swims to the corner I feed him in. Then he does a few laps and lays back down if I leave

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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