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Teriauki

Swollen, brown vent- swim buoyancy issues

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30 gal tank with three large goldfish. Problem is with black moor. This started after a period of not the best water more than a month ago. At that time i thought ick was starting so i treated for that, but it wasn't an obvious infection and i caught it really early. The water has been pristine since with many water changes. I am fairly novice tank owner but have learned a lot since researching this issue.

I first noticed brown triangle on underside, that I now know is the vent. It is swollen and appears to have bulge coming from it. She/he was normal, other than the brown triangle for some time. The fish, Bug eye (not very original), then started having trouble swimming, swimming upside down, floating with head down, what I thought first must be swim bladder. I also noted no poo and she looked a bit big in the underbelly but no where else. No raised scales, no trouble breathing, gills look good, appetite good, fins good.

I first tried fasting and then feeding peas. I did this the first couple weeks. I also treated for parasite in case bulge was fluke. After this no real change. I have tried an Epsom salt soak in the past week , about 15 minutes every other day. This helped a bit as she swam a little better, but then reverts back to either floating, a lot upside down, or swimming around wildly. Now she/he has changed from floating face down to on her side. She looks dead but then comes alive, swimming wildly.

After the fasting and peas I started feeding regular but less. I feed combo of flakes and variety of freeze dried: shrimp, krill, bloodworm. She eats when she can get to it, I can hand feed her krill and seems really hungry. Her poo today was super thin, long translucent with a small amount of obvious poop at the end.

Could this be egg bounding? The bulge from the vent could easily be an egg since today I found pictures of spawning, not quite as translucent as the pictures.

I will post picture or video as soon as I can. It's hard to see the vent with all the fins wafting around.

Thanks for any help.

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Hi! Welcome to the forum! Sorry you're having trouble with your fish. It would be very helpful if you could fill this form out so that everyone here can best assist you and if you can post the photo as soon as you are able so we can see what you're talking about.


    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level (tank):
  • * Nitrite Level (tank)
  • * Nitrate level (Tank)
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap):
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap)
  • * Nitrate level (Tap)
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * Water temperature?
  • * How often do you change the water and how much?

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.)
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.

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It could be egg-bounding, but a lot about her diet can cause the floatiness/bloating. We typically recommend against using freeze-dried foods as they have excess air that can cause them to be floaty. Same with flakes, which is why we recommend pellets for gold fish. Usually when we only have flakes available, we soak them for a little while before feeding, which helps keep the floatiness down. If you can fill out the form, that would be wonderful. Was the poop zig-zagged at all?

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Unable to upload photo or video due to size. Will try again.

Test Results for the Following: haven't done it recently

* Ammonia Level (tank):

* Nitrite Level (tank)

* Nitrate level (Tank)

* Ammonia Level (Tap):

* Nitrite Level (Tap)

* Nitrate level (Tap)

* Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

* Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Strips

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Two filters- one 30-40 and one 10-20

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Minimal basic water conditioner

* Water temperature? 68

* How often do you change the water and how much? Recently a couple gallons every other day, when problem started I did a complete water change

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today, couple gallons

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 30, several years

* How many fish in the tank and their size? Three LARGE goldfish

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Twice a day, flakes, freeze dried shrimp, krill, bloodworms and recently peas

* Any new fish added to the tank? No

* Any medications added to the tank? Ick and parasite meds in last month

* List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) maybe icky but it was caught early

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? More floating at top, crazy uncoordinated swimming, then floating, still, thought she was dead

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. I have some salt in the tank, Epsom salt treatment for 15 minutes every other day for past week

* You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.

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What are you using to upload a video? Usually photobucket is pretty easy to upload videos to.

How much epsom did you use in the treatment? I hope you don't mind my asking clarifying questions (:

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Yeah, you could say zig zagged on the poop. It was very very thin and translucent. It was at least 4 inches long and floated in the water. It was almost mucus like.

I usually wet the freeze dried stuff and the flakes, they usually eat it off the bottom. I do also use pellets. I have over fed in the past but have gotten a lot better. But the fasting and peas didn't make for much change and they got that for over a week.

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About 3 tablespoons for three gallons siphoned tank water. Please any questions that might help I am more than glad to answer.

I was just using the more options button at the bottom of post page to send video/picture. Will try again.

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I was just using the more options button at the bottom of post page to send video/picture. Will try again.

You actually will need to upload your pic to a hosting site such as YouTube or photobucket. Since you are upload both pics and videos, photobucket might be the better option :)

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Except I obviously did something wrong. Will try again

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I see them just fine....

Can you please get your water tested at the LFS and get the numbers for the water... This is very important for us to help you with this problem :)

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Unable to upload photo or video due to size. Will try again.

Test Results for the Following: haven't done it recently

* Ammonia Level (tank):

* Nitrite Level (tank)

* Nitrate level (Tank)

* Ammonia Level (Tap):

* Nitrite Level (Tap)

* Nitrate level (Tap)

* Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

* Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)

Could you get API drop test kit for these to find out the numbers? Another option is to go to the fish store and they will test it for you, you may need to be persistent to get actual numbers though.

Other Required Info:

* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? Strips

* What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Two filters- one 30-40 and one 10-20

* What kind of water additives or conditioners? Minimal basic water conditioner

The name will help of the filters and the conditioner since different brands have different things in them :) Do you have carbon in your filter?

* Water temperature? 68

* How often do you change the water and how much? Recently a couple gallons every other day, when problem started I did a complete water change

* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today, couple gallons

* Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 30, several years

* How many fish in the tank and their size? Three LARGE goldfish

* What do you feed your fish and how often? Twice a day, flakes, freeze dried shrimp, krill, bloodworms and recently peas

* Any new fish added to the tank? No

* Any medications added to the tank? Ick and parasite meds in last month

* List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) maybe icky but it was caught early

* Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?

* Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? More floating at top, crazy uncoordinated swimming, then floating, still, thought she was dead

* List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. I have some salt in the tank, Epsom salt treatment for 15 minutes every other day for past week

* You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.

I was able to see the video and the pics, thank you very much they helped a lot. I'm wondering how often you clean the gravel during your water changes? Also, the tank looked a little small for a 30 gal from the pics, can you give some measurements just to confirm?

Those are some very beautiful fish and I'm glad you are working on helping them :)

Edit: Sniped by koko :yikes

Edited by bodoba

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Also I would like you to not feed them for atleast 2 days :)

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The results are in and I'm in good shape there. I realized my test strips were expired, therefore now have API drop kit, worth it cause I think I'll have fish for life.

Nitrate, nitrite, ammonia all 0. pH 7.6.

Now to answering questions:

My filters are Whisper something and I do use charcoal, except if medicating fish.

The conditioner is Jim's aquarium and Fish complete water conditioner.

I had let the tank go and the water quality had been poor ( I didn't test but I didn't clean either) but about two months ago cleaned really good and cleaned the gravel well then. Of the water changes I've recently been doing it is mainly to get water to treat bug eye seperately, so haven't cleaned the gravel lately.

My tank dimensions are 30" x 12" x 12." It's a longer shorter tank. I should put a picture up of the whole thing. I just love it. It's opposite a large mirror so i can be in different places in the house and watch them, which I can do a lot and really get lost, but I' m sure everyone here can relate to that.

As far as her condition today. The fish are now fasting. I stopped yesterday. I also treated bug eye to an Epsom salt soak. While she gets REALLY lethargic after, she swims much better after a little rest. There has been very little floating on her side the last couple of days.

I have also witnessed several stools. They are Very stringy, thread-like, clear, float and stay attached to her for while. They are clearly not healthy. I'm also seeing, very minimally, maybe some fraying at the ends of her fins, very slight. The delicacy of their fins is just so beautiful, I look at them a lot.

Vent remains swollen and dull brown.

So let me know what you think.

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Tap water numbers are the same as tank. I did do a partial water change when after testing with the expired strips that said the nitrate was 80. It was when I tested again after the water change and the nitrate was still 80 that I realized the strips were expires.

How important are the specific pH info- gh,kh and chloramphenicol. The test I got wasn' that specific. do I need to buy another test?

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If you're pH is stable (meaning that it doesn't change from the tap when it goes into the tank overtime) then it isn't an important thing to know. However, if you start getting issues in this area, they are essential to know.

When I calculate the volume of your tank I come up with 18 gallons. I'm sure you've been reading the site and know that they need a larger container. With three fish you want to aim for at least 40 gallons. It's time to start changing at least 50% of the water weekly.

Gravel should be siphoned as part of every water change as hydrogen sulfate can brew in there and it's not good for fish.

This type of stool is normally produced when a fish is understress.

Another important thing to talk about is your water conditioner. Water conditioners like Prime and Amquel Plus do a lot of really good things for fish, we recommend them highly here.

I want to see if increased water changes and possibly a larger container will help the fish recover on it's own :) If you see the fish worsening don't hesitate to provide more pics and videos.

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I want to see if increased water changes and possibly a larger container will help the fish recover on it's own :) If you see the fish worsening don't hesitate to provide more pics and videos.

when you do the water changes, please do not add the Epsom. overdosing or treatment periods longer than 8 consecutive days of Epsom can cause chemical burns to the fish and can also cause fish to suffer anaemia. anaemia is incurable.

the correct dose of Epsom salt is very very little. it is only 1/4 teaspoon for every 10US gallons. you only have 18 gallons which means the current level of Epsom salt in your fishtank is way too high. so, please do these water changes as quickly as possible to minimize the risk of the problems i explained above.

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Wow, I don't where I got the 30 gal number, probably confused the filter size with the tank size. I will do water changes as recommended. While I love the fish I did realize that my tank was not going to accommodate them for much longer and have plans for them to move into a fish pond of a friend in the spring. Do you think I should plan the move sooner? I live in Cincinnati. The weather now is quite mild but will get pretty cold soon. I know they like the cold but I thought real winter weather ( and you all from Canada are probably laughing) might be too shocking.

I plan on getting new fish for the tank but my house can't accommodate a larger tank, so I'm gonna be going for smaller fish and no over feeding them!

Thanks for all your help!

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i probably wouldn't do it this winter to be honest. the difference from being this long in a climate controlled tank to out in freezing temps might be too much for them. for the time being.. ie, till winter is over, do you think you can get a nice size food safe tub and house them in that? or, a 20 gallon tub and moving two of them in there whilst you use the 18 gallon tank to treat the black fish?

once the brutal part of winter is over and temps begin to fine up, that might be a good time to move them to the pond. provided that your friend has room for them in there.

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