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number20121

What is this coloration considered?

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I keep wanting to ask about your guys' professional opinion about what these three are considered. I never know if I should "introduce" them as shubunkins, sarasa comets or sakura comets, or... whatever??

As some of you know, these are the offspring of Hugo x Orange Fishie (F Shubunkin x M Orange Comet).

The four babies are one obviously orange comet with a white throat. But the three others, I'm not quite sure where to fit them in.

Do they have enough black to be considered shubunkin? Each of them has only a very minimal amount of black, like 1 or 2 spots. The rest is matte white (pink) and orange with only very few metallic scales.

It's kind of making them look like sakura sarasa comets with some accidental black spots. None of them shows any actual blue which would be typical for most calicos/shubunkins.

Just to refresh everyone's memory

Buttons, all white (pink) and orange with a small black streak on the lower caudal. Has like 3 metallic scales total.

http://i1150.photobu...ngletails05.jpg

Finny. The orange and black you see on here is pretty much all she got. A few metallic scales. A couple tiny orange and black markings on the fins.

http://i1150.photobu...ngletails14.jpg

http://i1150.photobu...ngletails10.jpg

Trooper with his gorgeous "red cheeks". Just like Buttons, only a tiny black streak on lower caudal, almost no metallic scales

http://i1150.photobu...ngletails16.jpg

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I know that they have to have that "blue" along with calico coloration to be a Shubunkin, so if you don't see much blue I would lean toward Sarasas.

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I know that they have to have that "blue" along with calico coloration to be a Shubunkin, so if you don't see much blue I would lean toward Sarasas.

Yup :thumb:

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I know that they have to have that "blue" along with calico coloration to be a Shubunkin, so if you don't see much blue I would lean toward Sarasas.

Yup :thumb:

Cool! That's why I pointed out the lack of blue because it is typical for calico.

But the tad of black is what throws me off with describing them, because whenever I look sarasa up, there is no black.

Also, the 98% matte scales would technically make them sakura comets, right? Since sarasa is metallic, and sakura describes red/orange + white, mostly nacreous.

Or not?

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I just noticed on page 53 of the Fancy Goldfish book by Johnson and Hess, it shows a photo of a nacreous white single-tail. It looks to be all white with a very slight sprinkling of black speckles near its peduncle. It has a bristol shaped tail. And the caption says "matte shubunkin". So I think you can call the non metallic one a matte shubunkin. Don't know about the others.

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My understanding is that a nacreous comet/common is a shubunkin. Since comets/commons are metallic, what else would you call them? Ideally, shubunkin have multiple colors, and blue is desirable. A breed standard is just an ideal. Fish that don't meet it are not show specimens, but that doesn't mean they are some other kind of fish. A sakura is a nacreous fish that has no black pigment, and thus no black or blue (which is diluted black). Typically, you see multiple shades of orange. Sarasa comets are metallic, so these are definitely not sarasas. I wonder if fin coloration might be under different control than that of the body.

I have one shubunkin from last year's fry who was red, white, black, and blue for a year, and now is all white. One of this year's fry was red and white with a black head and some blue patches. In the course of a week after I moved her to another pond, she lost all her blue and black and it hasn't returned. I have some that are red with a white tail, mostly matte with with only a few metallic scales. They look like comets except for the button eyes.

Call them shubunkin.

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