Possible Guppy Dropsy

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

Okay so today I picked up 5 male guppies from my moms bosses tank at work. It is ridiculously overstocked because the guppies just keep breeding and they don't do anything about it. I can't fill out the form because it is not my tank so I don;t have any readings, but I know it gets a cleaning maybe once a month if their lucky, and they throw out the filters and everything (so it never stays cycled) Ugh. I tried telling her how to properly take care of them and said I would come clean it but she doesn't really care.

SO anyways, four of them look like they have lifted scales (which I didn't notice until I got home because it is really hard to see on these tiny little guys!) and are pretty bloated if you look from the top. I'm not sure if it could be from overfeeding and constipation (because I know they really overfeed them too) or if it would be from an infection or something. They do rarely ever have deaths (which is amazing) so I'm wondering if it really could just be overfeeding.... I can attempt a picture but I really don't think I will be able to get a good one since the scales are so darn small. I will QT them of course but what should I do for them??

[number20121 2,663]

I wonder if some epsom salt would be a good idea. Even if the fish are only bloated from overfeeding / constipation, the epsom salt should offer some relief.

The dose is 1/8tsp per 10 gallons of water. I would not medicate, but only do epsom and clean water to see if they are going to start pooping up a storm.

Of course, no food.

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

Yeah thats what I was thinking I would do but I wasn't sure what the dose for guppies would be. I will do that right now and see what happens. There is one that looks fine though so I will not put him in the epsom because he obviously doesn't need it

And they do seem to be pooping quite a bit even just in the bag when I was bringing them home. It looks like normal poop but really long

[Narny105 1,992]

Don't exceed the epsom for over 8 days. Preferably, if you notice he looks considerably better after 5 days, remove it then. Yes, only medicate the fish that are ill

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

Alright sounds good. Hopefully this is all that is wrong! I hope I don't need to start with medicated food because it always stresses me out when my fish are really sick

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

OMG. I am hoping my eyes are decieving me, but I think my others gupies have ich! I just added them with the frogs...... crappppp. I only see it on the lyertail one and I am hoping it is just air bubles stuck to his tail or something because i was looking at them litterally after work and did not see anything.......

If it is ich what do i do? How high can I turn the heat up and how much salt for guppies? And what about the ADFs??

[Narny105 1,992]

I have no experience with ADF's sorry With ich, what you can do is bring the heat up to 80F, and then even possibly increase it to 82F depending on how low it is now. The heat alone should really help with the ich if that is what you have. You can then salt to 0.1% with the guppies, but again, I really don't know about ADF's. Salt in 0.05% increments.

Can you post pictures of the fish and the set-up as well just to confirm?

Also, it would be handy to have the tank size, current temp, and parameters

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

I can get a full tank picture tomorrow. I'm gonna go to bed soon and my computer takes forever to upload pictures.

10 gallon planted

78 F

Am. 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate barely registers

[Narny105 1,992]

ok Well in the mean time raise the temperature to 80F

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

Okay will do!

I also should have said I have 7 male guppies in there with 2 ADF's and 2 adult trumpet snails and a bunch of baby ones.

Tomorrow I will start to add the salt in .05% increments if nobody has any objections with the salt and ADFs

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

Well they are still very bloated and pineconed from what I can see and I have no idea what to do. Would I start feeding some metro gel food? Because I have metro powder on hand and gel food which I can melt down and add the metro to but how much??

[Narny105 1,992]

Weren't the bloated/pineconed fish put in espom salt?

Normal aquarium salt will retain fluid, so if you have the bloated ones in aquarium salt, you will need to remove them into fresh water without salt and treat with the epsom

I would try the epsom first before the medicated food. Realistically you should notice some loss of bloating within a day to two days

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

Salt is for the Ich fish. Not these ones. The other guppies I have (in a different tank) have ich now..... Ugh lol. Stupid petsmart.

The pineconed ones have been in epsom but there had been no change in their appearence so I assume I need to medicate

[Narny105 1,992]

That's a pain! How long have they been in the epsom? With the ich and pineconed fish, the best you can do at the moment is raise the temperature to 80F (if it is not at that temperature already.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Narny105

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

They have been in it for three days now. And I am a dummy and forgot to dose it yesterday but I did it today (I have been doing 100% water changes every day)

I have the temps for both tanks turned up to that as well. I just don;t know what the deal with these fish are.... Could the pineconing somehow be from the horrible water conditions they were in? One of the fish was not pineconed but he is much smaller and was in another (even smaller tank) with the babies. SO maybe he doesn't have whatever they have?

And yeah it is a real pain with all of this happeneing at once! That is why I hate buying petsmart fish (the ich ones) and I am just trying to save these ones (pineconed ones) from a horrible death from that lady's tank

[Narny105 1,992]

Bad water quality can definitely have contributed to the issues you are having, and if they were in bad water quality, the stress of moving is enough for disease to outbreak which is why it is always good to QT

After 6 days, if the swelling hasn't gone down, you can look at medicating them. Are you ok with figuring out the dosages for the fish? I am unsure if you can use metro as it will be a very tiny dose. You might be able to use kanamycin but I'm not too sure- I've used it on guppies before, but I am not sure how effective it is for dropsy cases. Just going to do reading up on it

EDIT: scrap kanamycin- thought it would treat ich as well but I got it confused with fungal issues.

How are the snails and ADF's doing with the salt?

Edited October 23, 2012 by Narny105

[Narny105 1,992]

Can I also recommend pictures (top view and side view) of the dropsied fish and just some general pictures of the ich fish, just to confirm everything?

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

I am going to the city this weekend so anything I might need I can probably find there. I just need to know what dosage to put in the water or the percent that needs to be in the food and I will be fine when we figure out what can be used.

The snails and ADF's are in their own 5 gallon tank right now lol. I decided they would just come out so that they didn't have to deal with it and they can stay in there. Do you know if ADF's can get ich though? Because then I guess I would have to treat them too

I will try get pictures tonight if I can. They move so fast it is really hard to focus on them well enough to see the tiny lifted scales, but I will try my best

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

Here is a full tank shot I took last night (the ich fish only) The dropsy ones have been in their own tank the whole time

[Narny105 1,992]

I looked at what I could find on google and ADF's shouldn't get ich, but a good thing about separating them is that you are able to watch out for it

I agree with metro. The metro will need to be a powder so it can be added straight to the water. I've been talking with some mods and one found this metro powder which I think is the one to go with http://www.guppysaquariumproducts.com.au/fish-health-medication/metronidazole-powder-100g-salt-freshwater/prod_2347.html

I would like to start the metro as soon as you can if possible, and if you do happen to find a powder metro similar to this then you should be fine to get it. Leave the epsom in for another 3 days still and see how they are. I don't think it will need to be continued during metro if it hasn't worked after 6 days

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

I came to find one of the dropsied ones passed away

I have metro powder on hand already so I won't need to wait until the weekend at least. Can I start the metro tonight? And if so how much?

[Narny105 1,992]

I'm sorry I think it is best to start now since dropsied guppies are difficult to treat. I was hoping the epsom would have done the trick.

Can you post the ingredients in the powder? I am not sure if it is just metronidazole. (metro is only available from a vet or doctor here in Aus, so I am not familiar with what you can get)

Edited October 24, 2012 by Narny105

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

It says 100% metronidazole. It says on the bottle to use 1-2 measures per 10 gallons (the measure is a little scoop thing) I used this stuff before in gel food for my old dropsied betta. I hate treating dropsy Especially in tropical tiny fish

[Narny105 1,992]

You can dose at 25mg/gallon daily starting today. Continue the epsom for the full 8 days then remove it

Fingers crossed!

[haley_tichonuk22 1,157]

Okay will do. Thanks so much for all your help Alex