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Guest habrew

Black Moor listless, swollen belly

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Guest habrew


  • Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level (tank): 0.25ppm (started daily water changes when I found this)
  • * Nitrite Level (tank): 0ppm
  • * Nitrate level (Tank): 5.0ppm
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap): Have not tested tap yet, wanted to post first
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap)
  • * Nitrate level (Tap)
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines): 7.5
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?: API drops
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?: Aquatech Powerfilter 5-15
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?: API tap water conditioner
  • * Water temperature?: 74 Degrees
  • * How often do you change the water and how much?: Before sickness, 25% weekly. Last 3 days, 25% daily. Today, 50%.

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? Today, 50%
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 10 gal, 1 year 2 months
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 1 Black Moor (Gandalf), 3.5in; 2 Three-Lined Corys; 3 neon tetras
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Once daily, Tetrafin goldfish flakes. Started presoaking after illness started
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? 2 neon tetras, 3 weeks ago
  • * Any medications added to the tank? 2 days of QuickCure, then 2 days of Tetra Life Guard with Halo Shield. 25% water changes every day.
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.): Only Ick, months ago. Quickly cured
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?: The first day of noticeable sickness, there was a scale that appeared to "fall off" of Gandalf's body. No blood or redness around area. His fins are fraying now, presumably due to stress. No other superficial signs of illness except the lump. After he started bottom sitting, he banged his eye on the bubble wand and now the eye is bloody and clouded. Poor guy is having a rough time.
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?: Gandalf is bottom sitting, which he only does when he is sick. Still has an appetite. He had not pooped in 4 days, until I fed him a pea tonight. Very recently- white and stringy poop. Gandalf has very labored breathing.
    Another Cory has clamped fins and faded coloring.
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • 4 days ago, I had one Cory that became secluded and died within 12 hours. Scary fast for me. Gandalf started bottom sitting that day, and I noticed the scale coming off of his back. I did a 25% water change and started the tank on QuickCure. There were no outward signs of illness. Did 2 days of QuickCure, with 25% water changes. Started looking on blogs and forums and realized QuickCure probably wasn't the right answer. Went to the store and found Tetra Lifeguard, which I had never used. 2 days of that treatment with 25% water changes to try. I felt like I put too much medicine into the tank, so thus the water changes. 50% water change today because I now think that Lifeguard is not what I need. I fed Gandalf some unshelled/mashed peas tonight.
  • * You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.

After reading lots of forums tonight, I have realized that my filter is inadequate and I should upgrade, and also that I have too much gravel.

After reading this post- http://www.kokosgold...-anus-etcdying/

It sounds a lot like what Gandalf is going through. His abdomen swelling was only apparent this morning, and it was worse by the time I got off work and was able to feed him a pea. He has started pooping a little, it is very white and stringy.

I am attempting to upload a photo and video.

photo1_zpsf71de4d5.jpg

He is such a beautiful fish when he is healthy! I hate seeing him like this. This white spot on his tail is a bit of pea that I missed, nothing parasitic.

I keep the bubble wand on constantly, except during feeding. I took this photo right after I fed him peas.

His eye is bloody from his decision to bottom sit on the corner of the bubble wand.

Thanks so much for any advice. I'm overly fond of Gandalf. He has been with me since the beginning of my (very amateur) tank hobby. I'm afraid I'm learning everything because something happens to him.

Here are links to the videos-

http://s1292.beta.photobucket.com/user/habrew/media/IMG_0700_zpsa60f32a9.mp4.html

http://s1292.beta.photobucket.com/user/habrew/media/IMG_0701_zpsecb4fa98.mp4.html

I don't know how to embed it, sorry!

Edited by habrew

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Guest habrew

I ran out of editing time. Here's more-

In the second video, you can see the cory with clamped fins sitting in the background.

I would love for Gandalf's problem to only be constipation, but due to two corys being sick, I think it's more than that.

I do not have a Q tank. I really had no idea what I was doing when I first started my tank, but I know a little more now. Still not enough, though.

I have not had any illness or deaths in a while, which is why I'm pretty concerned.

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I don't know too much about fish problems but here are my concerns:

You still have traces of ammonia, which means your biological filtration isn't strong enough for the amount of fish you have. 10 gallons is much to small for even 1 goldfish, especially with extra cories and tetras. The goldfish should not be housed with these fish. Only 25% water changes weekly wouldn't be adequate on staving off the effects of ammonia/bacteria in the water.

Here is what I think that some of the more experienced members will ask you to do:

Feel his abdomen, and note if it is soft or firm, report back.

Fast him for a couple of days.

But please do not do anything above until an experienced member chimes in and agrees or suggests something else (:

What to do in the meantime: A huge back to back 80-90% water change to get rid of all of the ammonia/nitrates. This I can pretty much guarantee is necessary, even with me suggesting it. Hope he gets on the road to recovery!

Edited by LovelyChaos

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Guest habrew

Thanks for your quick response!

I never realized the necessity for such large tanks with a gold fish until this week when I started reading forums. I never had anything worse than Ick, so I never did my research. I feel guilty that I'm putting my fish through something I might have prevented with proper tank size and filtration.

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Thanks for your quick response!

I never realized the necessity for such large tanks with a gold fish until this week when I started reading forums. I never had anything worse than Ick, so I never did my research. I feel guilty that I'm putting my fish through something I might have prevented with proper tank size and filtration.

It's ok, we all start somewhere or another. You will want to get a 20 gallon and a filter with 200 gph filtration for just the one goldfish, and the tetras and cories can stay in the 10. You will also want 2 more cories because they school (:

I think it would be safe for you to feel the fishes belly and see if it is soft or firm. Soft, your finger will kind of sink into the belly, firm, you will receive resistance to your finger. Also, I would remove anything rough or sharp from the tank to keep him from getting any more damage to his eye. Try to keep the tank as dark as possible. Is there a way you can get a food storage tub to put him in? This way you can focus on him and give him some more space to swim in, and there won't be gravel or rough edges to get hurt on.

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Did you get to do the water change and feel the belly?

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Size in this case (as in many cases with overstocking) will make things go downhill faster. Not only do tropicals and goldfish have different environmental needs but spacial needs as well. You know this now so I'm not going to chastise you or anything (we've all been there, really!) But I would work on moving the tropicals or rehoming them because you're going to need to do a parasite treatment and address the gravel issue. If you have a deep gravel bed that can hold excess pockets of bad bacteria, Before starting any kind of treatment I'd recommend removing the gravel down to 1/2 inch or lower and doing a very large water change. You may want to remove the fish while you do this because it can be messy if you don't regularly vacuum the gravel. Just from your description is sounds like flukes and possibly a internal infection, the blood in your tele's eye is concerning as well. Could you get a picture from above or one that better shows the swelling?

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All of the symptoms: burst eye vessels, bottom sitting, and clamping are also consistent with ammonia poisoning. Moreover, given that you dosed with formalin, he's probably a rough time. :(

I agree that it could be flukes, but until we have the water quality sorted out, it's going to be difficult to differentiate parasite versus water problems.

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I believe the eye issues happened because of accidentally rubbing on the airstone.

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Guest habrew

I did a 75% water change this morning. I vacuum the gravel with every water change, so it wasn't as dirty as it could have been.

I tested my tap water, and it's showing an ammonia level of 1.0ppm. Should I use Ammo Lock or another ammonia treatment when I do water changes?

And should I try to buy a 20 gallon for the Black Moor, or another 10 gallon to move the Corys and Neons? I'm worried the shock of an unestablished tank would be harsh on the Black Moor.

Thanks to everyone!

I'll start removing gravel when I know the next step.

I'm 90% positive that the blood in his eye is from the corner of the air wand. I saw him as he was doing it and quickly ushered him away from that area. The blood was not there before that incident, and formed in the exact spot where he poked himself. If it's not, what else would it indicate?

Edited by habrew

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Guest habrew

I also tried to feel the hardness of his belly, but it was the first time I had ever held him, and we were both pretty nervous. I will try again soon to get a more definitive answer.

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Guest habrew

photo21_zps8f57fa7e.jpg

New this morning- white spots on the top of his dorsal fin and apparent piece of his dorsal fin missing next to the white spots.

I have drawn the arrow pointing to the swollen area.

I apologize for the low quality of the photos, I've been using my cell phone.

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I would get Prime water conditioner it will detoxify ammonia up to 1ppm for 24 hours ;) A lot of members here use it and love it!

Could you please got a above shot so? Also what is your PH out of tap?

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Your fish will be able to survive a transfer to a 20 gallon. What you can do is transfer some gravel and water to the new 20 gallon. This will give you some BB to make the cycling easier. Definitely get prime, it will help a ton with the transfer. What he needs is fresh clean water, more room, and his own treatment area. The white spot on the fin looks like it could just be a slim coat issue, which giving him more room and clean water will help. Also, try to get a 20 gallon long for him, as goldfish prefer more swimming room rather than height.

As for the swelling, what do some experienced members think of feeding epsom in a pea? Or is that not going to help? I am trying to learn :P

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Your fish will be able to survive a transfer to a 20 gallon. What you can do is transfer some gravel and water to the new 20 gallon. This will give you some BB to make the cycling easier. Definitely get prime, it will help a ton with the transfer. What he needs is fresh clean water, more room, and his own treatment area. The white spot on the fin looks like it could just be a slim coat issue, which giving him more room and clean water will help. Also, try to get a 20 gallon long for him, as goldfish prefer more swimming room rather than height.

As for the swelling, what do some experienced members think of feeding epsom in a pea? Or is that not going to help? I am trying to learn :P

I'd say transfer a small amount of gravel but it must be from the very top layer as that is the only portion that contains any BB. Start with fresh water dosed with prime, the swelling could be constipation, have you seen any poop and if so please describe it. I'd still like a picture from above please. Does he appear pineconed at all? Look from above and if the scales are not laying flat against one another. This really could be anything from ammonia to sever flukes or an internal infection. We need a bit more info before suggesting a treatment route.

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Guest habrew

I'm sorry for not responding sooner. Gandalf went downhill Sunday evening, and then died sometime that night. Heartbreaking for me.

I've learned a lot from this, and I won't make the same mistakes. Thank you all for your help, I really appreciate it!

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I'm so sorry :(

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I am sorry he passed away ): I hope that what you learned can help you with your next fish. If you have any questions about anything feel free to ask (:

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