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Neil D

Preventative Treatment for Parasites

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Hey guys,

So recently another one of my ryukins passed away, presumably from parasites. There is one Ryukin left in the cycled 38g. I have Prazipro and AQ salt.

  • * Ammonia Level (tank):0
  • * Nitrite Level (tank) 0
  • * Nitrate level (Tank) 0-10
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap):
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap)
  • * Nitrate level (Tap)
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) pH: ~7.6
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? API Master Freshwater Liquid Test Kit
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? Marineland Penguin 350
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? Prime
  • * Water temperature? 70 F
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? weekly, ~25-40 %

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? yesterday, ~30%
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 5 months
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? one, the size of my palm
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? Daily, 3-5 pellets
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? no
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) Two of the original 3 have passed, both exhibiting the same issue. Previous threads point to flukes.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Nothing
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.

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Have you treated them with salt and Prazi?

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Not yet I wanted your guys' opinions first. Should I do just salt, just prazi, mix?

Thanks.

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Given that it seems to be a pretty severe case I'll cross post my treatment schedule from my goldfish blog

  1. Salt with .03% immediately. This will stop opportunistic ailments like Ick and Velvet. Add prazipro at double the recommended dose on the packaging . Wait 4 days.
  2. On the 5th day do a large water change (>50%) and wait a day. This will give time for more fluke eggs to hatch as they’re only susceptible when in the adult/freeswimming stage.
  3. On the 6th day treat the fish with a salt dip with 3% salt for no longer than 5 minutes. This will cause the fish to shed it slime coat and any parasites that might be living on it, such as body flukes. When the fish begins to lose balance or has trouble staying vertical in the dip, remove it. Treat again with .3% salt and a double dose of prazipro, wait four days and on the fifth do a large water change (>50%) and do not use salt or prazi pro for one day following.
  4. On day 14 salt at .1% and the standard dose of prazipro. Leave in for four days, with a large waterchange on the 5th day. Wait a day.
  5. Repeat process for another 1-2 weeks as seen fit.

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I don't think the condition is nearly as bad as it seems. I mean, it is, but the remaining Ryukin is showing no symptoms at all. He's active and swimming. This is a preventative treatment. Also, the Prazi bottle gives directions for preventative treatment. Is that too low/too little for what's happening with the tank?

If it still is prudent to take the above action, can you give me a rough dosage of the salt? Like how much tsp per gallon? (38g tank here)

Edited by Neil D

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Dosage of salt to reach .3% is 11.4grams/g. So, for a 38g this is 433.2grams. Dosing via tsp is a bit difficult to determine due to the variations in grain size of the salt one may be using. A tsp of course salt does not weight the same as a tsp of fine-grained salt. I would suggest hitting walmart or another chain store and picking up a small kitchen scale ($4) so you can accurately determine the salt dosage based on weight rather volume.

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Good post, Jessica!

We normal recommend getting Morton's Canning & Pickling salt. It comes in a 4 pound box for less than $2, and can be found at most grocery stores.

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Considering you had two other fish die from flukes I would say it is a severe infestation even if the last fish isn't showing many symptoms.

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Considering you had two other fish die from flukes I would say it is a severe infestation even if the last fish isn't showing many symptoms.

Yup I had this problem myself :(

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Neil, we've been down this road before.

You've been advised to treat for flukes, long before the fish even started showing symptoms, because we know how these things play out. But you didn't listen. Look what happened afterward.

Now, after two dead fish, it seems to me that you are STILL trying to reason yourself out of not treating for these parasites. It's really up to you, but I think you already saw how symptoms won't show up until it's nearly too late, or already too late.

Why not make it easier on you and your fish by just doing things properly, instead of reacting when catastrophe strikes?

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I agree with alex, flukes are one of the easiest things to treat for, and with a very gentle treatment and little meds involved. There is really no reason not to do it.

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I will definitely do it. Insults are not necessary, although I do see how it seems that way, Alex. My mom is actually going to the store now. I'm also curious as to why the bottle instructions will not suffice.

I'll get my mom to pick up the salt and scale.

EDIT: apparently I have to get it tomorrow, as my mom has a yoga class now and won't get it.

Edited by Neil D

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Neil, I'm not trying to insult you, because I don't have time for that. I would just ignore you. However, I am trying to help you, but I do admit to be quite a bit frustrated, because it just seems that these suggestions never get adapted, leading to future issues.

When flukes infect a fish, it hooks on to tissue, and so when it falls off, it leaves little wounds, which are susceptible to secondary bacterial infections etc. That's where salt comes in. Salt helps the prevent secondary infections through its antimicrobial properties and by stimulating slimecoat. It also eases osmoregulatory stress, which can happen in a fish with gill damage from flukes.

Labels do not tell the whole story. They are there to give you precise instructions for treating the things you've bought that medication for and nothing else. You could go without salt, of course. However, the risks are greater, although by how much will depend on your system.

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Alright.

So 443g of salt, with Prazi according to instructions on bottle, doubled. For how long?

Oh wait, I just saw Jessica's post up there again.

Edited by Neil D

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Wait as I reread Jessica's post, a few more questions popped up.

How would I add the salt in the tank? I've done it for betta-fish quarantine, but not for goldfish. Could I remove him, add the salt to the tank, wait a bit for a bit to make sure it dissolved completely, then re-acclimate him to the water?

Thanks guys, I really do appreciate all your help.

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Hi Neil! I am not sure what recommendations people follow on this forum for salt use but this is how I use salt for my goldfish tanks (when its needed). Do a big water change. This will be necessary anyway before starting the prazi. Measure out the dose of salt into a container you can close (has a lid). Fill with conditioned (dechlorinated) water and shake until the salt is completely dissolved. If you have large grain salt (such as API), you can use a a coffee bean/spice grinder to crush it first to make it easier to dissolve. Now slowly add the salt solution a little at a time over a 48hr period of time. Half the container of salt solution should be in the tank by the 24hr mark, second half over the next 24hrs. When you do water changes, only add back the salt you remove. For example, if you do a 50% wc, add back 1/2 of the original dose as you are refilling the tank (predissolved in conditioned water). I am sure others will have suggestions as well!

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Jessica is right we want to add 114.4grams of salt every 12hrs. This will give are benificial bacteria time to adjust to the salt and prevent a cycle bump. Also as Jessica points out please add back any salt taken out so for a 50% WC you would add 216.6grams of salt back to keep your tank at the .3% salt salinity :)

Fallow PearlscalePerfects scedule please.

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Hey guys, thanks for the reply. We're going to get the salt now. So today, I'll do a big WC, remove the fish for a while, then add 114g of salt, as well as the 2x the recommended dose of Prazi. I'll then reacclimatize the fish. Tomorrow after school, I'll remove the fish, add more salt, do the same thing...until I get to the appropriate amount? This would give me ~456g of salt after 4 days. Does this sound good? We're getting the Canning and Pickling Salt and scale today. Also, seeing as I have no appropriate QT container, can I add the 114g of salt right to the tank (with no fish) and wait a bit for it to dissolve?

Edited by Neil D

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I've never removed my fish when adding salt. Fully dissolve the salt before adding to the aquarium by taking some aquarium water out of the tank into a separate container, and mix the salt until dissolved. Then slowly pour directly into the aquarium. Just be sure to only add 1 teaspoon per gallon at a time to reach 1%, and only add another 1% every 24 hours. This is avoid shocking your cycle, not the fish.

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This is going in Grams, so if you could tell me how to do this based on grams, that would be helpful.

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Please read my post again, Neil. If you premix the entire dose in one container, you can add 1/4 of the solution every 12hrs until the entire .3% is in the tank. Or you can add smaller amounts more gradually but the point is to half the container solution in the tank at the 24hr mark, second half by the end of the next 24hrs. Total .3% solution is in the tank by 48hrs. No need to worry about grams other than measuring the initial dose of salt.

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Alright, after thinking this through, I'll do the WC, measure out 114g now, and use a tsp to measure out the appropriate amount per gallon and add it to the "fish" buckets I have to dissolve it. Then I'll add the Prazi at 2x the dose on the bottle. Do I need to remove the fish for prazi treatment and then reacclimatize him?

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Neil, why are you trying to make this more difficult than it has to be? Very simple! Do you have an empty water bottle or jug? Or any clean empty container with a lid? Weigh out the entire salt dose (do not use a tsp), put it in the container and add treated/conditioned water. Shake the bottle/jug/whatever until its dissolved. Take a marker & mark off quarter doses on the bottle (4 altogether) . Add 1/4 dose every 12hrs until the bottle is empty. This will take 48hrs total. Prazi can be added directly to the tank (assuming its liquid, not powder)- no need to acclimate your fish. Please ask if you dont understand something! :)

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Alright, after thinking this through, I'll do the WC, measure out 114g now, and use a tsp to measure out the appropriate amount per gallon and add it to the "fish" buckets I have to dissolve it. Then I'll add the Prazi at 2x the dose on the bottle. Do I need to remove the fish for prazi treatment and then reacclimatize him?

As Jessica said, no need to remove your fish at any point during the treatment process :) You can add prazi directly to the tank with the fish in there. Salt can be added to the tank as long as it is dissolved in some water in a separate container first. Removing your fish from the tank is stressful for them, so you want to avoid doing this whenever possible.

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Okay. Got it except for one thing. The salt is still concerning me. So the size of the bucket I mix it up in doesn't matter?

so if I have this straight:

all salt needed in bucket

dissolve it

(2g for what I'm using)

add water from tank

add 1/4 of the water from bucket in tank every 12 hrs

add prazi.

Edited by Neil D

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