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poorly shubunkin


lexii

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hiya guys, i have a ill shubinkin its been laying on the bottom of the tank for over a week now, it did used to come up for food but it seems to have stopped. it has a little swim occasionally then sits back on the bottom of the tank, it has a very big belly so im not sure if it could be pregnant or bloat, it sits with his head facing down and the bottom of his body tilted up a little, could anyone give me a little info on this please ive phoned my pet shop but the main guy who deals with fish is on holiday so they couldnt really help me. :no:

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hi hun,

welcome to kokos :) i am sorry your fish isn't doing well. so that we can assist you further by gaining a more accurate idea as to what could be wrong, please copy and paste the questions above your initial post in the white box, post them in your text and answer them as best as you can.

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Hello and welcome, and sorry you are having problems with your fish :(

Could you fill out this forum to the best of your knowledge? Without this info, we are unable to figure out the problem or how to help him.

  • Ammonia Level (tank):
  • * Nitrite Level (tank)
  • * Nitrate level (Tank)
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap):
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap)
  • * Nitrate level (Tap)
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)?
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners?
  • * Water temperature?
  • * How often do you change the water and how much?

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.)
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.

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  • Ammonia Level (tank): /
  • * Nitrite Level (tank) /
  • * Nitrate level (Tank) /
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap): /
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap) /
  • * Nitrate level (Tap) /
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) my ph level was 7.0
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines) /
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? tested at pet shop
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)? aqua vital 2300lph
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners? inter pet top safe
  • * Water temperature? 22
  • * How often do you change the water and how much? 20% and once a week every month 50%

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? week ago and 20%
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running? 78 litres not sure gals over a year
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size? 21 all from inch to 3 inches
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often? once in morn once at night aqarium gold fish flake food
  • * Any new fish added to the tank? no
  • * Any medications added to the tank? no
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.) white spot bacterial infection
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus? none now they had red streaks
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? yes on my one shubunkin
  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment. they were treated 3 times for white spot 7 day course, internal bacteria with one dose of tonic salt
  • * You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.
  • the ones i put a / by im not sure but when i get it all tested at the pet shop they said it was fine. all levels are virtually bang on


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First off I am sorry to say that you are terribly overstocked. Goldfish grow big, produce a lot of waste and because of that as a general rule a minimum of 15 US gallons - that is about 55 liters, is recommended per fish. :)

With all these fish in one small tank and only 20% weekly water changes, I bet my clothes that you are having severe water quality issues. There is no way you don't have the toxins sky rocketing in there. Even if your filter converts ammonia and nitrite into nitrate, the nitrate levels have to be enormous. I have a tank with 2 fish in 20 gallons, and with two weekly 75% water changes the nitrate stays below 10ppm.

20 ppm nitrate is usually the maximum suggested for goldfish, staying below is better. After all it is toxic to fish, so the less, the better.

With you having 21 fish in this tank, your nitrates have to literally be off the chart :(

I would take a small sample of your current tank water to bring it to the pet store for testing asap.

After removing a sample for the pet store, immediately do a 50% water change on the tank. I would not do more than that right now to not shock the fish with fresh water. This can actually happen when their environment is very toxic.

Then tomorrow do another 50% water change, and another one the day after. You will probably have to do daily 50% water changes as minimum until you can either rehome 20 fish or get a pond.

Or get a much larger tank and keep a few fish and rehome the rest. With 21 in this small tank, you will sooner than later experience terrible disaster :(

I will check back in later, gotta go to work now :)

Edited by Oerba Yun Fang
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i do have a pond outside that they will be going in, and i am looking for a bigger tank :) the water levels are good as i got them checked out at the pet shop, ive had all these fish in the tank over a year and nothings happened until now :/ i do understand that i have too many fish in my tank and they will be going in the pond next year when its warmer i dont want to put them in now as the weather as it may shock them as they have been in the house and in a warmish room for over a year. most of my fish are faincy tails so there not that big, how do i upload a pic of my poorly fish?

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how soon can you have the water tested hun? the LFS should be able to test it for free. please arrange this and write the exact numbers down. without the exact numbers, we won't know how to help you. certain medicinal treatments are water param sensitive. ie, using salt with ammonia present is a no no.. amongst other things. so the sooner we can have those exact numbers, the better we can help.

i can see from the cloudiness displayed that the water is of really bad quality. i think for now, you change 60% of the water as soon as you can.. fill the tank up again, wait about 10 mins and change another 60%..

with being this heavily overstocked, the fish would have only be ok for a little while. eventually stunting of growth happens, that is, if they do not die from the level of toxins first.

stunted growth is when a fish on the outside grows to suit only the size of the tank. that's fine, however, the organs on the inside do not stop growing, eventually, the organs grow so much that they cause pressure to the rest of the organs such as kidney, heart, tract etc.. then, the fish will begin to show signs of illness. once it gets to this, it's too late. the body on the outside cannot grow more :( the fish will die :(

you say that the tank has been running for a year. how many fish have not survived the 12 months? i am not asking this question as an attack on you. not at all, i would just like to know what your success rate has been, please don't take offence, i have no intention to offend you.

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i understand hun, i will get it all tested tomorrow what do i have to test? and no fish have died it werent cloudy it was because i had the light on in my tank and zoomed in so it went blurry off my phone

does the fish look pregnant or does it look like it has bloat?

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i don't notice any bloating in the fish.

i would like you to do the water changes as i suggested. but first, i want you to take a cup of water out of the tank and put it aside for testing. then do the water changes 60% at a time, cleaning the gravel as much as possible. do these water changes 2 or 3 or even 4 times over until the water returns to clear. remember to match the temperature, PH and to dechlorinate with each water change.

when you go to the LFS, please take that cup of tank water with you. have them test with a drops test kit, API if they have it (they should) for the following water params:

Ammonia

Nitrite

Nitrate

PH

and if possible (should be standard)

KH

GH

write the results down so that you don't forget them. tell them that you NEED to know for the health of your fish.

you can't keep this many fish in that small tank.. what thoughts do you have in trying to provide more space or rehoming some of them?

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there water is clear, and they are going into a pond in my back yard, but not until next year as the weather is not good, the fish may be pregnant then its only the one fish the others are ok and when i get my water tested for that they told me it was all ok

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Please get your water tested as stakos suggested. "fine" is not adequate, we need the exact numbers in order to help you and your fish. When I started out I was also told my water was "fine".., it was not. Pet store employees more often than not are poorly trained and have absolutely no idea what they are talking about unfortunately.

Please get your water tested again and write down the exact values for the Params stakos listed :)

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at my pet shop the man who deals with the fish is away till monday, its a family run pet business but he knows more about fish so should i get it tested tomorrow or wait till monday when hes back as he will be able to help more?

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Please do not take offense to what I have to say, nothing negative is meant~~~but you are WAY overstocked !! and just because you have had no issues with water quality until now, doesn't mean it is well with fish,.......with that many fish you are looking at a bomb ready to explode !!...........Please, for the sake of the fish get a bigger "something" Tote, tank, whatever............and do the suggested water changes.................. :please

we are all here to HELP you and have you do what is BEST for the fish................. :wub:

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there water is clear, and they are going into a pond in my back yard, but not until next year as the weather is not good, the fish may be pregnant then its only the one fish the others are ok and when i get my water tested for that they told me it was all ok

Just like people, fish can take awhile to show symptoms of illness. People can smoke for many years without symptoms of illness, this does not mean its good for them or that they won't eventually get cancer.

In the same way goldfish can endure bad conditions for quite awhile, years even without any outward symptoms of illness. This does not mean damage is not being done. Goldfish can grow over 10 inches and live over 10 yrs. when kept in a small tank or in overcrowded condition they become stunted which can result in a significantly shorter lifespan, if the water quality doesnt kill them first. This is the difference between thriving and surviving.

Most of us ended up here overstocked because we did not do our research or were misinformed by pet stores. It's okay that you're in this situation, we all understand, but it's what you do with the information you receive here that really counts :)

If you cannot provide adequate housing for these fish asap you will need to consider rehoming some. If you leave things the way they are you will have serious issues down the road, and it is just really not fair to your fish.

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at my pet shop the man who deals with the fish is away till monday, its a family run pet business but he knows more about fish so should i get it tested tomorrow or wait till monday when hes back as he will be able to help more?

If you feel like the other employees can do the testing part and provide you with accurate numbers I would go ahead and get it tested tomorrow :) all you need are the numbers :)

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there water is clear, and they are going into a pond in my back yard, but not until next year as the weather is not good, the fish may be pregnant then its only the one fish the others are ok and when i get my water tested for that they told me it was all ok

Just like people, fish can take awhile to show symptoms of illness. People can smoke for many years without symptoms of illness, this does not mean its good for them or that they won't eventually get cancer.

In the same way goldfish can endure bad conditions for quite awhile, years even without any outward symptoms of illness. This does not mean damage is not being done. Goldfish can grow over 10 inches and live over 10 yrs. when kept in a small tank or in overcrowded condition they become stunted which can result in a significantly shorter lifespan, if the water quality doesnt kill them first. This is the difference between thriving and surviving.

Most of us ended up here overstocked because we did not do our research or were misinformed by pet stores. It's okay that you're in this situation, we all understand, but it's what you do with the information you receive here that really counts :)

If you cannot provide adequate housing for these fish asap you will need to consider rehoming some. If you leave things the way they are you will have serious issues down the road, and it is just really not fair to your fish.

very well said Tithra.............couldn't agree more...........we (members) are here to help you do what is best for the fish..............what YOU do with the info is up to YOU !

no one can FORCE you to do what is best for the fish.............after all that's why we are all here, for the health of the fish and fishkeepers who want that too..

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ive done the water changes, im also looking for a bigger tank, i have a pond in the back yard ready for them to go in next year, i dont want to put them in yet due to the weather as they have been in the house and its been warmish so dont want to shock them by putting them out side, i understand what everyone is saying and i have taken the info on board and i am doing stuff about it, i will take a water sample up to the pet shop tomorrow and get it all tested im on the look out for a bigger tank for them

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im going to put the fish in a little tank of its own, so its not stressed out and it can do what it wants i will do this tomorrow when i can get a new air pump i have a spare filter

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