Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
anastasiam

Black moor with stringy waste

Recommended Posts

Hi, I just want to apologize in advance, I'm still very new to forums in general, and I'm trying hard to figure all of this out...

So to start, I've been having some issues with my little moor lately.. I've had him for 3 years and his only tank mate for two. The tank mate is another fancy, a fantail goldie. My black moor named Dexter (that I assume that is male, but I don't know for sure...), has recently had white stringy waste (sorry for being so graphic). Its sticks on him for awhile, and gets quite long... He still has a bit of an appetite, but he just kind of lazes around for the most part now. He used to be very responsive when you'd come up to the tank, wiggling and such, but now he just floats around... He also had a bit of weird clear spots that appeared on some of his fins. I put a bit of salt in for a salt bath and they cleared up a bit...

I also have a few plants: one hornwort, three anarachis (my goldies always snack on them :)), and three anubias

I had some trouble with my tap water for awhile (we are on a well), but it eventually cleared up. They nitrates were higher than normal; about 20ppm or so. We started using bottled spring water (no Reverse Osmosis), but after awhile we picked up a water purifier. Since then the nitrates have been about 5ppm.

I tested my water yesterday, after a partial change the day before, and this is what I got:

  • Ammonia Level (tank): less than 5ppm
  • * Nitrite Level (tank): 0ppm
  • * Nitrate level (Tank) 10ppm
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap): I haven't tested in awhile, but it was under 5ppm
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap): 0ppm
  • * Nitrate level (Tap): 5ppm
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines):
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines):

I use the API master freshwater test kit... I found its more accurate than the strips...

I was using just an Aqueon 55/75 standard filter, and an aqua tech 5-15 gallon filter. I took out the aqua tech yesterday because it wasn't running up to par, and put in two Marineland Bio-wheel 200

models (200 GPH each). I also kept the aqueon in until the new filters establish with new bacteria...

As for the additives and conditioners, I use:

API Melafix when needed their is scale damage

Tetra AquaSafe Water Conditioner

Kordon AmQuel Plus for ammonia

API Stress Coat

The water temp is about 75 degrees Fahrenheit, (I can't figure out how to cool it :no: )

I usually change the water about 1-2 times a week, never two days in a row, and usually about 5 gallons by way of a gravel vacuum...

I changed my water two days ago, and my usual 5 gallons. However, I was out of town for two weeks, and I wasn't able to do my normal water changes....

Tank size is 55 gallons and its been up and running for about 8 months now

I have two fish, and two snails... Dexter is about 5 inches, and my Goldie is about the same. My two snails are about an inch a piece.

I feed them flakes, once a day with treats of veggies every so often. I try for once or twice a week.

No new fish have been added.

The only medications, or anything like it I've put in lately have been Melafix and salt...

The only issues that I've noted were some issues caused by the higher nitrates when our water was bad, and a some problems due to ammonia poisoning when my tank was first establishing. My original tank sprung a leak and I had to move them quickly... when I had issues with the nitrates, he just sat in the corner most of the day... He seemed better once I got the levels down.

He's been eating a bit, but not as much as usual. He doesn't sit at the bottom anymore, but he just.. kinda floats :-/. He swims around a bit, but not as much as he used to. Goldie is missing some scales right below her dorsal fin. I know she likes to take off and... I'm not sure how to describe it, but she turns mid swim and sometimes bumps into things. She's always done that though and Dexter never has... But as I mentioned earlier, Dexter has had the long clear/white stringy waste and some clear spots appeared on his pelvic fin, anal fin, and pectoral fin.. I added some salt, and it started clearing up.

I have never added any chemicals like antibacterials or algecide... only the melafix and the other chemicals I listed...

I have had a bit of an alge problem in this new tank though... Its brown and it sticks to the plants and walls... I clean it off often, but it always comes back. I have two standard hoodlights that came with the tank set-up.

I'm sorry for the long post... Thank you to anyone who can help me!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, I just want to apologize in advance, I'm still very new to forums in general, and I'm trying hard to figure all of this out...

So to start, I've been having some issues with my little moor lately.. I've had him for 3 years and his only tank mate for two. The tank mate is another fancy, a fantail goldie. My black moor named Dexter (that I assume that is male, but I don't know for sure...), has recently had white stringy waste (sorry for being so graphic). Its sticks on him for awhile, and gets quite long... He still has a bit of an appetite, but he just kind of lazes around for the most part now. He used to be very responsive when you'd come up to the tank, wiggling and such, but now he just floats around... He also had a bit of weird clear spots that appeared on some of his fins. I put a bit of salt in for a salt bath and they cleared up a bit...

I also have a few plants: one hornwort, three anarachis (my goldies always snack on them :)), and three anubias

I had some trouble with my tap water for awhile (we are on a well), but it eventually cleared up. They nitrates were higher than normal; about 20ppm or so. We started using bottled spring water (no Reverse Osmosis), but after awhile we picked up a water purifier. Since then the nitrates have been about 5ppm.

I tested my water yesterday, after a partial change the day before, and this is what I got:

  • Ammonia Level (tank): less than 5ppm
  • * Nitrite Level (tank): 0ppm
  • * Nitrate level (Tank) 10ppm
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap): I haven't tested in awhile, but it was under 5ppm
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap): 0ppm
  • * Nitrate level (Tap): 5ppm
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines):
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines):

Hi, I'm sorry you're having issues:(

In terms of your parameter readings, ammonia around 5ppm is extremely high and toxic, is this the correct reading? You also say this is in your tap, do you mean .5ppm rather than 5ppm?

Can you also test your pH (tap and tank)?

Also, Amquel is a water conditioner (a very good one) so you don't need to be adding the Aquasafe conditioner and stress coat as well.

75F is perfectly fine for goldies :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you so much for the quick reply! and yes, I'm sorry, I read the sheet wrong... it is indeed .5ppm. Its not quite the perfect color on the sheet, but its not quite dark enough to be the next up...

The ph is about 7-8 in the tank, and the tap is about 7.

Thanks for the advice! I'll stop putting in the aquasafe and stress coat...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

can we get a video of both the fish and the tank? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, I cannot tell much from the pics unfortunately because they are a bit blurry. Any chance you could borrow a video camera from someone in the next couple days? I would like to see their behavior, which is tricky to do in a photo ;) If you cannot get video, clearer pictures of the fins would also be helpful :)

When you say the moor floats about, does he float at the top of the tank (like he is stuck there?) or does he just float mid-tank?

Here's what I would like to suggest to start:

1. Salt the tank to .3%. You can do this by raising the salt by .1% (1 tsp per gallon) every 12 hours, until you get to .3%, make sure the salt is dissolved before you add it to the tank. Because no tank holds the amount of water it claims, we can assume your tank holds about 50 gallons, so your first dose of salt will be 50 tsp or about 16-17 tbsp.

You can use aquarium salt, but you may also want to look into picking up some salt from the grocery store, as it will be cheaper. You can use any salt that does not contain any additives or anti caking agents. Morton's Pickling and canning salt is a great one that is widely available. You will need to take the snails out during this treatment and put them in a separate container (also be warned that some plants are sensitive to salt, so if there's any that you are concerned about you may want to remove them as well). Remember to add back in the amount of salt you took out with each water change. So, if you have 50 tsp of salt in the tank and change 50% of the water, you'll need to add 25 tsp back in.

2. Up you water change routine. Even though you only have two fish, a 5 gallon weekly water change is just not enough. The water parameters may be OK, but there is still organic waste that can build up in the water and cause bacterial issues in the tank. A minimum 50-80% water change weekly is recommended. For now, I would actually recommend even more frequent water changes just to promote healing. Daily water changes would be ideal if you are able, if not, try for every 2-3 days. Pristine water conditions are really important in the healing process :)

3. Feed just spinach and/or green beans for the next couple day and keep an eye on his poo (we want it to be a nice thick green).

4. Finally, would you be able to grab some prazi pro? If you haven't treated for flukes yet, now would be a great time. I am not sure that this is the root of the issue here, but your description of Goldie swimming and bumping into things sounds like it may be flashing, which is one symptom of external parasites, such as flukes. You likely will not be able to find the prazi locally (but you can check), so you can order off of amazon http://www.amazon.com/PraziPro-oz-treats-480-Gallon/dp/B0006JLPC2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's fine, a video when you can would still be great! The pictures are enough to see the white spots that are appearing. What salt dosage did you bath him at?

Is he acting floaty at all and have you tried fasting then feeding a blanched pea? I think it would be a good idea to try for constipation first, and then possibly look at salting the tank and doing a prazi treatment to treat for parasites.

EDIT: Sniped :P

Edited by Narny105

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

oops, sorry Narny! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone! Thank you so much for the quick responses! I must say you both have gorgeous fish!

I'll try and get a video as soon as I can... I'll run off to my sisters house and snag hers :teehee . Normally he doesn't mind pictures too much, but he hasn't been too cooperative lately.

I'll go ahead and order the PraziPro tonight... Do I need to do anything special for dosing or should I just follow the bottle's directions..?

When he floats, its more mid tank. He'll swim a little and come to the top for a second for food, but never for very long.. I didn't put too much salt in the tank since I wasn't 100% sure what amount to put in.. I think it was four table spoons I dissolved in a separate cup with the aquarium water. Neither of my little ones seemed to be too pleased with the taste lol... I'll go ahead and up the water changes too... Now that I think about it, I might need to get a new gravel vacuum as well. When I move the snails, I should use the same aquarium water right?

Kind of a stupid question, but I saw a baby snail in my tank a few weeks ago but didn't think much on it at the time... Its disappeared since then. I haven't seen it in the filter or attached to the walls... Do you think he might of swallowed it!? Or maybe it was just picked up by the gravel vacuum... I just thought it'd be worth mentioning.

I've tried him on a pea diet in the past and it seemed to do well when he had a swim bladder issue (sorry I forgot to mention that :-/). I'm worried that since he hasn't been picking at the bottom he might not get any of the peas... He kind of has a hard time seeing so he isn't really able to pick up the peas as they sink... He usually will just pick flakes out of my fingers, or I'll nudge a flake in his direction for him to catch and eat. I have never tried spinich or green beans... Do you think that will be easier at all?

I also haven't tried fasting him since the swim bladder issue a few months ago... Someone told me that because he has a clepped lip and a slightly deformed pectoral and anal fins that he might have other internal problems as well... I hope that isn't the case... I've also heard that what he is experiencing could be caused by parasites or tb... Do you think that could be the case? I know its kind of hard to tell...

Thank you so much again for the answers! I already feel a little better about my little guys. I hate that me being so inexperienced with fish reflects on them :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flake food can also contribute to floating issues. I would switch to a good pellet food as soon as possible.

Also, has the ammonia always been at .5 or is that new?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its usually quite low.. about, or at least close to 0ppm according to my water test kit...

I tried one type of pellet food, but it made my tank terribly messy... It likes to break apart quickly in the water, and turns it a nasty color.. Do you know of a good brand?

I've also heard of people feeding their fish a gelatin kind of food... I wonder if that works?

Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still try the spinach or peas and see how he goes. With the prazi, follow the directions. Wait a few days in between treatments as you want to allow time for any flukes remaining to become susceptible to the medication- this is why it is important to do cycles of prazi.

It sounds to me that you have just had a slight ammonia spike. You will need to increase water changes as suggested though to remove the ammonia as that can contribute to some issues. The Amquel will be able to keep the ammonia detoxified during water changes but dose to the bottles directions. Also, it is important that you know exactly what the pH of your tank and tap is, as you want to be matching the temperature and pH during water changes, especially when doing larger ones.

Still salt to 0.1% for now and raise it to 0.3% over the next 24 hours (12 hour increments) since there is still some white film on the fins. The pictures are a bit blurry so a video will help identify what is on the fins. Better off to weigh the salt so you are not accidentally adding too much or too little. For 55 gallons (dosing for 50 gallons) you need 189grams of salt which will bring the tank up to 0.1% :)

In terms of food, and considering the past swim bladder issues, repashy soilent green (which is a gel food) is an extremely good gel food powder that contains all they need, and should help with floaty issues. Sinking pellets are also preferable with floaty fish, and the hikari brand makes some of those. You can also make your own gel food, and there are plenty of recipes on the forum.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, Thank you! I'll get on that first thing... How would I prepare the spinach?

One more question on the prazi: once I dose, do I continue the water changes as advised?

The PH defiantly is a good thing to keep track of... Thank you for the reminder!

Ok, thank you for the advice on the food!

I'll try for the video tomorrow... Hopefully I can figure out photobucket by then too lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, Thank you! I'll get on that first thing... How would I prepare the spinach

You can just blanch it; same with the peas (de-shell them before feeding). All you need to do is get some tank water in a bowl and put the spinach and/or peas in it, stick it in the microwave for around 30 seconds- all it does is just softens it so it is easier to eat :)

One more question on the prazi: once I dose, do I continue the water changes as advised?

Do a large water change before treatment to get ammonia down to 0ppm, and just use the amquel during the treatment to keep the ammonia detoxified. The treatment is only 48 hours, and you do a large water change after treatment anyway which you can also use to get ammonia back down to 0ppm. Wait 1 day before re-dosing, do a large WC, and then Amquel to keep water safe during treatment. Remember to add back in the salt you remove (always dissolve salt prior to adding)

The PH defiantly is a good thing to keep track of... Thank you for the reminder!

Ok, thank you for the advice on the food!

I'll try for the video tomorrow... Hopefully I can figure out photobucket by then too lol

No problem! :) It's still a little hazy as to what is affecting your fish, that is why salt is advised first, but hopefully with the video it can be properly diagnosed.

Edited by Narny105

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is the prazi schedule I'd like you to follow :) (its a little more aggressive than the directions on the bottle, and what we typically recommend here):

When you get the prazi you're going to drop the salt back down to .1% and leave it at this for the duration of treatment (prazi is not effective at higher concentrations of salt unless you double dose it)

Day 1: add prazi

Day 4: big water change

Day 5: big water change, add prazi

Day 9: big water change

Day 10: big water change, add prazi

And so on until you have added prazi 4-6 times

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are feeding Repashy, you can also dose the Prazi directly into the food. If you are using concentrated praziquantel powder, use 1/4 tsp in 1/4 cup of dry food powder, mix the powders well and then make the gel food as normal. If you are using liquid PraziPro, use the dosage for 10 gallons. If you are using the cold water method for making the gel food, just mix in the PraziPro when you mix in the cold water to the food powder. If you are using the boiling water method, add the boiling water to the gel mix start stirring and then add in the medication as you stir.

You can does Repashy food with other medications as well. I have use metronidazole and some antibiotics. Antibiotics, however, are heat sensitive, so you need to use the boiling water method, stir the mix for about 30 seconds (until it starts to get thick), and then stir in the antibiotic. This lets it cool just enough to no destroy the drug.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are feeding Repashy, you can also dose the Prazi directly into the food. If you are using concentrated praziquantel powder, use 1/4 tsp in 1/4 cup of dry food powder, mix the powders well and then make the gel food as normal. If you are using liquid PraziPro, use the dosage for 10 gallons. If you are using the cold water method for making the gel food, just mix in the PraziPro when you mix in the cold water to the food powder. If you are using the boiling water method, add the boiling water to the gel mix start stirring and then add in the medication as you stir.

You can does Repashy food with other medications as well. I have use metronidazole and some antibiotics. Antibiotics, however, are heat sensitive, so you need to use the boiling water method, stir the mix for about 30 seconds (until it starts to get thick), and then stir in the antibiotic. This lets it cool just enough to no destroy the drug.

In this case we are treating for external parasites so the prazi is best administered in the water, not in the food. But, yes, the repashy is a great way to make medicated gel food if you ever need to. It is fantastic stuff :D Thank you for the info/dosages, I will make note of it :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello again everyone!

My little Dexy is doing better today! The spots on his fins disappeared after a 60% water change, some salt... I fasted him for a day (advice by the fish guru that works in the pet store nearby..) and he seemed a little better today. Hes a little more active, but not 100% yet... I had another question before I add the antibiotics though: I have three filters, all of which are the standard 'box' filters (opposed to the canister filters... not really sure what the ones I have are called formally lol). Only the 55/75 is fully established though... They have carbon in the filters if I'm not mistaken...

Should I stop running the filters, or keep running them..? I really appreciate all of the help! I also bought them some better food today: Some gell food and some veggie pellets.

Thank you all again for the help! I know my fishies appreciate it too!

Oh, also, this is the best I could do for a video...

http://s1067.photobucket.com/albums/u440/amarjenhoff/

Edited by anastasiam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also wanted to ask about something else too... I'm not sure if you can see it from the videos, but he has a little orange/yellow spot that is behind his right eye. Is that normal, or should I be worried..? He's had it for about 6 months or so I think.. I just know its been there for sometime.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello again everyone!

My little Dexy is doing better today! The spots on his fins disappeared after a 60% water change, some salt... I fasted him for a day (advice by the fish guru that works in the pet store nearby..) and he seemed a little better today. Hes a little more active, but not 100% yet... I had another question before I add the antibiotics though: I have three filters, all of which are the standard 'box' filters (opposed to the canister filters... not really sure what the ones I have are called formally lol). Only the 55/75 is fully established though... They have carbon in the filters if I'm not mistaken...

Should I stop running the filters, or keep running them..? I really appreciate all of the help! I also bought them some better food today: Some gell food and some veggie pellets.

Thank you all again for the help! I know my fishies appreciate it too!

Oh, also, this is the best I could do for a video...

http://s1067.photobu...40/amarjenhoff/

Hi, whilst treating with prazi or any other medication, remove the carbon from your filter. Chemical filtration is not really needed, and carbon has to be replaces every 6 weeks or so anyway, so I personally wouldn't even add it back in. Water changes are just as effective (if not more effective) than carbon, which removes medications from the tanks.

Leave all of the filters running. Turning them off may result in a loss of some of your cycle, and the more filtration you have the better! :) Follow the treatment plan made by Tithra and you should be fine :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello again everyone!

My little Dexy is doing better today! The spots on his fins disappeared after a 60% water change, some salt... I fasted him for a day (advice by the fish guru that works in the pet store nearby..) and he seemed a little better today. Hes a little more active, but not 100% yet... I had another question before I add the antibiotics though: I have three filters, all of which are the standard 'box' filters (opposed to the canister filters... not really sure what the ones I have are called formally lol). Only the 55/75 is fully established though... They have carbon in the filters if I'm not mistaken...

Should I stop running the filters, or keep running them..? I really appreciate all of the help! I also bought them some better food today: Some gell food and some veggie pellets.

Thank you all again for the help! I know my fishies appreciate it too!

Oh, also, this is the best I could do for a video...

http://s1067.photobu...40/amarjenhoff/

I also wanted to ask about something else too... I'm not sure if you can see it from the videos, but he has a little orange/yellow spot that is behind his right eye. Is that normal, or should I be worried..? He's had it for about 6 months or so I think.. I just know its been there for sometime.

I cannot see the yellow orange spot behind his eye, I unfortunately can't see much detail in the video due to the quality. I do have one question, does the tele have a ring around his eyes that looks like it is filled with fluid? (I am seeing some whiteness around the eye, just wondering if you could describe what that is for me and if it is new or always been there etc.)

In the filters, is the carbon separate from the filter media or are they cartridges? (are you able to remove the carbon without removing the other filter media?)

I also just want to clarify that prazi is not an antibiotic :) It's a pretty gentle anti-parasite med (as flukes are parasites)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The carbon is in the filters... Their the little blue filters for the biowheels and the aqueon 55/75.. The blue packets are the only things that go into the filter... What should I do??

I'm sorry, I don't really have anything else for videos :no:...

As for the colored spot on his eye, he's had it for quite some time... Honestly, I don't remember if he had it when I got him... I'm not really sure if its fluid filled... Will this picture help at all?

Photo-0026_zps23c65d87.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it is a cartridge you can actually cut open the cartridge and dump out the carbon, then put the soft media of the carbon back in the filter. (hope this makes sense :) )

Thank you for the picture. I am going to have the rest of the mod team take a look. My worry is that it might be pop eye, but I'm having a little bit of a difficult time telling for certain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we are trying to determine if the fish has popeye?

typically, popeye will appear between the eye and the head, it will not show as a ring around the eye where you see the orange.

does anything in that area look puffy? ie, the orange ring we see, is it like a fluid ring or does it look flat to the surface and there is just colour missing? and the bit behind the ring, that orange patch, is that almost the same colour as the orange ring around the eye?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
  • Create New...