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Cyprinidae

White Dots and Tears on Tail-- PLEASE HELP!

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    Test Results for the Following:
  • * Ammonia Level (tank)
  • - 0.5-1.0
  • * Nitrite Level (tank)
  • - 0
  • * Nitrate level (Tank)
  • - 0
  • * Ammonia Level (Tap):
  • - 0
  • * Nitrite Level (Tap)
  • - 0
  • * Nitrate level (Tap)
  • - 0
  • * Ph Level, (Tank) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
  • - 7.4
  • * Ph Level, (Tap) (If possible, KH, GH and chloramines)
  • - 8.0
    Other Required Info:
  • * Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops?
  • - API drops
  • * What is the name and "size of the filter"(s)
  • - Aqueon 20 gal filter
  • * What kind of water additives or conditioners
  • - Salt, Seachem Prime
  • * Water temperature?
  • - 70 F
  • * How often do you change the water and how much?
  • - Every day I change 50% (Tank is cycling)

  • * How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change?
  • - Yesterday, 50%
  • * Tank size (how many gals.) and how long has it been running?
  • - 10 gal running for 2 months (Temporary)
  • * How many fish in the tank and their size?
  • - 1 fish, about 1 1/4 inches
  • * What do you feed your fish and how often?
  • - peas, pellets, brine shrimp, fed every other day
  • * Any new fish added to the tank?
  • - no
  • * Any medications added to the tank?
  • - no
  • * List previous issues experienced (dropsy, SBD, etc.)
  • - Possible constipation issues, but not causing swim bladder problems. I got him from a feeder tank 1 1/2 months ago.
  • * Any unusual findings on the fish such as "grains of salt," bloody streaks, frayed fins or fungus?
  • - Yes. When I got him he had two little dots on his tail, they looked like little kinks in his tail, maybe where he had been nipped and there was scar tissue. I didn't think much of it, because they didn't change at all, but three days ago I saw two more, and all of them were opaque, where as they had been translucent like his tail before. This afternoon I came home and saw that his tail had been torn in two places near the dots, sometime between 7am and 3pm.
  • * Any unusual behavior like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.?
  • - He is reluctant to leave his pagoda while the lights are on in the tank. He will eagerly come out to eat, and act normal during feeding time.

  • * List entire medication/treatment history for fish and tank. Please include salt, Prazi, PP, etc and the approximate time and duration of treatment.
  • * You can really help us to identify with the concern more accurately if you post some pictures and a short video.

Hi everyone, I am experiencing some problems :(

I have a small fish-- about 1 1/4 inches.

When I got him he had two little dots on his tail, they looked like little kinks in his tail, maybe where he had been nipped and there was scar tissue (he was rescued from a feeder tank). I didn't think much of it, because they didn't change at all, but three days ago I saw two more, and all of them turned opaque, whereas they had been translucent like his tail before. This afternoon I came home and saw that his tail had been torn in two places near the dots, sometime between 7am and 3pm. He will stay in the shade when the light is on, but when I feed him he is eager to eat.

I am having trouble getting a really clear picture of his tail right now, but I have a few that give a rough idea of the damage, and I made a sketch of what the dots/ tears look like.

I am really hoping to have this diagnosed as quickly as possible, because in seven hours he got one major tear, and one smaller one, and I am worried that he will get a lot worse at this rate.

When I turn the tank light off he swims up and down against the glass wall sometimes, he has always done this, but lately it has become extensive.

I have also noticed an increase in sporadic darting, followed by gasping for air once of twice, and then acting normal again.

None of his ornaments are particularly sharp, but should I take them out? I would suspect that he tore his tail on one of them, if the white dots didn't so exactly correlate with the tears.

The fact that my tank is cycling sort of throws a wrench in the gears here, because I am trying to avoid adding medications if possible.

Here are some pictures (I will try to get a better pic) :

ScreenShot2012-09-19at44114PM_zpse2db3961.png

ScreenShot2012-09-19at44131PM_zps7cab1a57.png

and a diagram showing his tail from the top:

(on the left is how it normally looks, and the left shows the recent tears and dots)

ScreenShot2012-09-19at40632PM_zps682ecaab.png

Thank you for your time!

-Cyprinidae

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First thing is I noticed that we are cycling.... So your doing good on the water changes. I would suggest more of 75% water changes to keep that ammonia down to.5 max :)

I noticed you said salt... How much salt and how often are you adding it...?

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Thanks Koko! I am adding 1tsp per 5 gallons, since the tank is 10gal, I add a teaspoon for every 50% water change. When I say .5 to 1 on the ammonia, I mean the marking on the color chart is ".5-1", the solution it's self is always on the lighter side, so I think the water is at .5 max. However, changing more water probably wouldn't hurt :)

Thanks for getting back to me on this!

-Cyp.

Edited by Cyprinidae

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Do the white spots look raised?

The fact that it has taken at least a month for another spot to appear makes me think that this is not ich. The flashing (rubbing) behavior, gasping, and fin tears though are all consistent with flukes. Can you get your hands on some prazipro? If your local stores don't carry prazi pro you can order it on amazon http://www.amazon.com/PraziPro-oz-treats-480-Gallon/dp/B0006JLPC2

I also notice your Ph appears to be dropping from tap to tank.

Would it be possible for you to get a kh test so we can determine what the buffering capacity of your water is? (You may also be able to get this tested for free at your local pet store if you bring in a water sample)

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The spots aren't raised, they look like small, round, cloudy blotches on his tail. I also thought of ich, especially once more spots appeared, but they don't look like ich marks. I am sitting by his tank now, and the dots are much more translucent than before, I just changed the water, and he is exploring and hunting for food. I haven't seen him rubbing at all today.

I don't think there as any prazipro at my lfs, but I will look into getting some online.

Thank you for your help!

-Cyp.

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Oh, and about the pH, I think the salt I have been adding is softening the water.

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Do the white spots look raised?

The fact that it has taken at least a month for another spot to appear makes me think that this is not ich. The flashing (rubbing) behavior, gasping, and fin tears though are all consistent with flukes. Can you get your hands on some prazipro? If your local stores don't carry prazi pro you can order it on amazon http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/B0006JLPC2

I also notice your Ph appears to be dropping from tap to tank.

Would it be possible for you to get a kh test so we can determine what the buffering capacity of your water is? (You may also be able to get this tested for free at your local pet store if you bring in a water sample)

Hun how about lifting the salt to .2%?

Oh, and about the pH, I think the salt I have been adding is softening the water.

Salt cant really do that hun, If the kh is low thats what will make it drop Have you tested your KH?

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Yes, I agree with koko, lets get your salt up to .2% until you get the prazi. .1% = 1 tsp per gallon, go ahead and raise it to .1% tonight and 12 hours later raise it up to .2%. Remember to replace the amount of salt you take out at each water change.

As koko said, salt will not affect your Ph. It is likely that you have soft water and will need crushed coral or a buffer to keep it stable. It is a significant concern because a falling Ph can be stressful if not potentially fatal for goldfish. It is something you will want to address asap. If you can get your kh tested that will give us more info on what the best route to take would be for your tank :)

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Thank you, I will try and get it tested tomorrow at the local pet store.

Perfect :) Keep us updated

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So I read up on flukes, and all of the symptoms correspond, in addition to the ones I stated already, he does have a reddish tint to him, which I thought might have be increasing (earlier I attributed this to his pale/transluecent coloring on his body)

Also, he seems very thin no matter what I feed him...

I let these things go before because he was acting normal, and didn't show any stress signs or anything...

He's sort of an odd little fish, either a comet X double tail, or a watonai, and he is very translucent in color-- It is hard to tell in the photograph because he is so bright in comparison to the background, that usually my shots of him are a bit over exposed ;)

Anyways,

I will go get the water tested in a sec.

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were you able to get your kh tested?

Did you order the prazipro?

:)

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Hi,

So I went to get the kh tested at petco, but they would only test for pH, chlorine, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.

There is-- or at least there was (It may have burned down)-- a fish store half an hour away that I could try, the people there might know what they're doing.

The Prazipro is coming, and I have increased the salt to 2%.

Luckily, my fish is healing super fast-- the 1/4in tear is almost gone now!

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that's great to hear that the tear is healing :) the salt certainly helps.

Will you do me a favor and let us know your current tap Ph, tank Ph, and when was the last water change/how much

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Tap pH- 8.0

Tank pH- 7.0

The last water change was yesterday, I changed 75%

Could it be possible that something in the salt is changing the water? I know you and koko said that the salt it's self could not do that, but could it also include a softening agent that is allowing the pH to change?

The decrease in pH appears to be related to the increase in salt product.

I will experiment by adding salt to tap water.

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Regular salt will not soften the water/drop the PH. What is most likely going on here is that you have low carbonate hardness (kh). Your kh is what stabilizes and maintains your ph, when this is low the ph will drop over time. The only way to know your exact kh is to get it tested. If you're able I'd highly recommend getting a kh tests, API sells them for like 10 dollars, or find a pet store that can test this for you so you know what you're working with.

This issue really needs to be addressed ASAP though regardless if you can get the exact kh value or not. A dropping ph is stressful for your fish and stress lowers immune system response which leaves them susceptible to pathogens. Enough of a ph drop can even be fatal. You are going to need a buffer or some crushed coral for the tank. I think because your ph is dropping so fast a buffer would be preferable but it's difficult to say for certain without a kh value.

What kind of salt are you using?

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Like Tithra said Reg Plan old salt wont change the PH at all. If it did Sw tanks would have a very hard time...... :o

Lets do a simple test... take a jug of water place some tap water in with an air stone. let it sit for 24 hours, this will show you what is going on.... Also whats in the tank? ornaments, logs, plants ECT....

We need to figure this out, like Tithra said this can be a very bad problem for goldfish. I lost 2 of them cause the KH here will go up and down and I didnt know about it when I first moved here.... TD found the hard way when he did a water change and didnt had my buffer back, with in 24 hours all my fish were covered in white... being burned....

Please lets try and figure this out. :)

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Thank you both, :)

I have:

- 1 pagoda ornament from petco,

- unpainted rock substrate,

- 1 anubias plant,

- 1 airstone w/ airline tubing,

- Aqueon filter

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Thank you both, :)

I have:

- 1 pagoda ornament from petco,

- unpainted rock substrate,

- 1 anubias plant,

- 1 airstone w/ airline tubing,

- Aqueon filter

Ok so I want you to get a Gallon jug place tap water in it with an air stone... test the water now then in 24 hours test again (PH) :thumb:

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I got the kh tested yesterday, and it is 12/200. I have added the 10 gal prazi dosage too.

I have some questions:

How long should I treat him with the prazi?

Will the prazi be removed by the filter?

When I do my water changes, should I replace it?

Thanks,

-Cyprinidae

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I got the kh tested yesterday, and it is 12/200. I have added the 10 gal prazi dosage too.

I have some questions:

How long should I treat him with the prazi?

Will the prazi be removed by the filter?

When I do my water changes, should I replace it?

Thanks,

-Cyprinidae

I need to check with others regarding your kh reading, I have never seen it expressed like that and am not sure what that even means ;)

Here is the prazi schedule (make sure salt is at .1% for the duration of treatment, any higher and the prazi will not be as effective)

Day 1: add prazi

Day 4: big water change (50-80%)

Day 5: big water change, add prazi

Day 9: big water change

Day 10: big water change, add prazi

Repeat this until you have dosed the tank with prazi 4-6 times

If you have carbon in your filter you will need to remove the carbon. The prazi degrades on it's own within 3 days :)

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I just remembered you are still cycling. If you cannot go those first 3 days without a water change safely, then you will need to add back in the prazi you take out each time you change the water during those days of the cycle. Please let me know if you have any questions on this.

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do you have any idea what test kit they used for the kh? (did you go to a pet store?)

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Thank you! I don't know what type of kit he used, but he thought that the water was stabilizing because of the water conditioner. What do you think?

This is coming from a guy who told me to add another goldfish to the ten gal if I wanted, and to only clean it every three weeks, so I am not holding his advise in high regards...

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I really have no idea about that kh reading, and none of the other mods/helpers appear to know what that means either, so I am not sure how to advise on that. Usually kh is in terms of drops (e.g. 4 drops) or ppm (e.g. 100 ppm), I have never seen it expressed this way and cannot find any information online on how to read that :idont

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