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new aquarium. dead fish.


redgold54

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Fish and food waste produce ammonia, which is harmful. After some time, beneficial bacteria will form that convert the ammonia to nitrite, which also is harmful. Eventually, more beneficial bacteria will form the convert the nitrite to nitrate, which is less harmful. A tank is "cycled" when enough BBs live in the tank to convert all the harmful ammonia and nitrite immediately. A cycled tank shouldn't have any ammonia or nitrite when tested. This process normally takes at least a month, but products like the one you bought promise to speed the process. However, if there's no ammonia in the water (from fish or from liquid ammonia), then there's no process to speed up.

Sniped by tithra! ;)

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I'll keep searching for ammonia. The store worker I spoke to said that the blend I bought contains everything required to properly cycle the tank.

http://www.microbeli.../special-blend/

Store employees are sadly rarely knowledgeable about anything. I would honestly never ever trust a pet store employee's opinion unless you have some real evidence that they actually know what they are talking about, all too often people (especially beginner aquariusts) are led astray be pet store employees because they assume should know what they're talking about because they work at a pet store, but it's unfortunately rare that they actually do. I'll get off my soap box now :P

Products such as microbe lift are designed to help along a cycle by supposedly adding the beneficial bacteria that cycle the tank (I say supposedly because these products are a bit of a crap shoot). However, they do not contain the ammonia that they beneficial require to establish and grow. These products are generally meant to be used when you are cycling with fish, so the fish produce the ammonia that these bacteria require. Fishless cycling is still a relatively new concept to many aquariusts.

Regardless, fish or liquid ammonia, these products will not instantly make it safe to add fish (as many claim), they can help along your cycle, but the BB's still require time to establish :)

All that said, you should definitely use this product, it may speed up your cycle a bit :) But keep looking for that ammonia :)

Thank you!

So if I start the "cycle" with this, I can add ammonia once I find it at some point during the "cycle"?

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I'll keep searching for ammonia. The store worker I spoke to said that the blend I bought contains everything required to properly cycle the tank.

http://www.microbelift.com/products/home-aquarium/bacterial-products/special-blend/

These products that talk about instant cycles don't instant cycle your tank these products might help it along but nobody really knows how much they help if any. Once you find the ammonia we can start the cycle and you can add that stuff if you like and see if it helps any :)

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I'll keep searching for ammonia. The store worker I spoke to said that the blend I bought contains everything required to properly cycle the tank.

http://www.microbeli.../special-blend/

Store employees are sadly rarely knowledgeable about anything. I would honestly never ever trust a pet store employee's opinion unless you have some real evidence that they actually know what they are talking about, all too often people (especially beginner aquariusts) are led astray be pet store employees because they assume should know what they're talking about because they work at a pet store, but it's unfortunately rare that they actually do. I'll get off my soap box now :P

Products such as microbe lift are designed to help along a cycle by supposedly adding the beneficial bacteria that cycle the tank (I say supposedly because these products are a bit of a crap shoot). However, they do not contain the ammonia that they beneficial require to establish and grow. These products are generally meant to be used when you are cycling with fish, so the fish produce the ammonia that these bacteria require. Fishless cycling is still a relatively new concept to many aquariusts.

Regardless, fish or liquid ammonia, these products will not instantly make it safe to add fish (as many claim), they can help along your cycle, but the BB's still require time to establish :)

All that said, you should definitely use this product, it may speed up your cycle a bit :) But keep looking for that ammonia :)

Thank you!

So if I start the "cycle" with this, I can add ammonia once I find it at some point during the "cycle"?

I would personally wait to add this until you get the ammonia. Or if you want to start asap add some fish food to the tank to get an ammonia source going. Without ammonia, any bacteria contained in this product will eventually starve/die off and not do you much good.

EDIT sniped by Karen :P

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Only two left. They were feeder fish. I got their tank from my grandmother and I don't think it was cycled, but the fish have managed to survive for months now (i think 5).

I'm going to wait till tomorrow and see If I find some ammonia. I didn't think this would end up costing me so much money.

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Only two left. They were feeder fish. I got their tank from my grandmother and I don't think it was cycled, but the fish have managed to survive for months now (i think 5).

I'm going to wait till tomorrow and see If I find some ammonia. I didn't think this would end up costing me so much money.

You will definitely need a water test kit for cycling. Once you get this you can test your current tank water (where the two fish are now) and let us know what the params are and we can determine if it is cycled or not. If it is cycled you can actually just transfer the filter from the established tank along with all the media to the new tank and have a pretty much instant cycle, or at least a much quicker one :) If this was the case you might not need to do a fishless cycle at all. The test kit is really important though in figuring out both what went wrong with the fish you added to the 110, and where we should go from here.

Fish are unfortunately a pricey labor intensive start up, but once you get the tank cycled and have everything you need in terms of equipment, the costs are minimal from there on out :)

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Water test results for (old) tank

Ph:6.8

ammonia: I guess zero ppm because it didn't change color.

nitrite: 0 ppm

nitrate: 0 ppm

how big is the tank? when was your last water change and how much did you change? Do you use cartridges in your filter?

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Okay, so it looks like you don't have a cycle in the 10 gallon, although I am really surprised you don't have any ammonia showing up.

So, you can go about this a couple ways since you already have fish. You could:

1. do a fishless cycle on the 110 gallon, while keeping the 2 fish in the 10 gallon and doing regular water changes in this tank - my concern with this is that we want to make sure that ammonia does not begin to rise in this tank as it is ultimately too small for two fish, you would need to keep up on testing the water and changing it if you choose this route. I would up your water changes to 50-80% at a time (making sure you match temp and Ph), and test your water daily in this tank for the next week to figure out exactly how long you can go between water changes. I personally would do a 50-80% change daily in a tank this size.

2. Put the new canister filter on the 10 gallon tank and cycle the filter with the fish in the 10 gallon - again, my concern would be the water params, but if you were willing to do very regular water changes it would be possible. This would mean that you wouldn't need bottled ammonia, as the fish produce the ammonia.

3. Cycle the 110 with the fish in it - my only concern here is that water changes become more of a pain, but you would likely only need to do them weekly since the params will be much more stable in such a large tank.

I am curious what others think is the best route? (or if there are other options I forgot to add here?)

As a bit of a side note, your Ph in the 10 gallon is too low. For goldfish Ph should be above 7.0, what is your tap Ph?

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I'll keep searching for ammonia. The store worker I spoke to said that the blend I bought contains everything required to properly cycle the tank.

http://www.microbeli.../special-blend/

Store employees are sadly rarely knowledgeable about anything. I would honestly never ever trust a pet store employee's opinion unless you have some real evidence that they actually know what they are talking about, all too often people (especially beginner aquariusts) are led astray be pet store employees because they assume should know what they're talking about because they work at a pet store, but it's unfortunately rare that they actually do. I'll get off my soap box now :P

^ Truer words were never spoken. Luckily there are good websites like this one where you can get dependable fish advice (and feel more confidant in knowing that advice is backed up by several people, not just one).

Okay, so it looks like you don't have a cycle in the 10 gallon, although I am really surprised you don't have any ammonia showing up.

So, you can go about this a couple ways since you already have fish. You could:

1. do a fishless cycle on the 110 gallon, while keeping the 2 fish in the 10 gallon and doing regular water changes in this tank - my concern with this is that we want to make sure that ammonia does not begin to rise in this tank as it is ultimately too small for two fish, you would need to keep up on testing the water and changing it if you choose this route. I would up your water changes to 50-80% at a time (making sure you match temp and Ph), and test your water daily in this tank for the next week to figure out exactly how long you can go between water changes. I personally would do a 50-80% change daily in a tank this size.

2. Put the new canister filter on the 10 gallon tank and cycle the filter with the fish in the 10 gallon - again, my concern would be the water params, but if you were willing to do very regular water changes it would be possible. This would mean that you wouldn't need bottled ammonia, as the fish produce the ammonia.

3. Cycle the 110 with the fish in it - my only concern here is that water changes become more of a pain, but you would likely only need to do them weekly since the params will be much more stable in such a large tank.

I am curious what others think is the best route? (or if there are other options I forgot to add here?)

As a bit of a side note, your Ph in the 10 gallon is too low. For goldfish Ph should be above 7.0, what is your tap Ph?

I would tend to go with option 3. With such a huge volume of water the parameters will be much more stable. And weekly water changes are a way of life, so best to get used to them now. :P I know that you probably don't want to be spending even more money at this point, but a water changer is one of the best investments you can make in this hobby, and I would almost consider it mandatory with a tank of that size. My water changer cost about $50 and I can honestly say that after 8 years it is the single most indispensable piece of equipment I have ever purchased.

How big are these fish? (sorry if you said already and I missed it)

Edited by fishtankbabe
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If I may add my input here, from experience, it's much easier to even do daily 100% WC on a 10 gallon tank. So, I would just leave the fish in the 10, and fishlessly cycle the 110. The reason I suggest this is that when you get your nitrite peak, the numbers will surge daily, and changing water in the 110 daily (or more) will be a PITA.

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omg thank you so much everyone!

What's a water changer? (like a python siphon?)

I think I'm going to do the fish-less cycle and keep the fish in the 10 gallon tank.

As for the fish, there are 1 pleco (really small and one goldfish (feeder) about an inch long. Is option 3 still a go with the pleco/goldfish?

I'm leaning towards a fishless cycle because doing constant water changes on the 110 is a drag.

According to this (www.kokosgoldfish.com/FishlessCycle.html) I don't have to do daily water changes during the cycle.

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During a fishless cycle, you may need to do a water change or two, once nitrates get too high. Given that it's a 110 gallon, that may not even be necessary.

The Python siphon is one type of water changer. Aqueon makes one, and Lee another. With these, you can hook them up to the faucet, and use withdraw or fill water directly :)

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omg thank you so much everyone!

What's a water changer? (like a python siphon?)

Yes, exactly. Although if I'm not mistaken Python actually went out of business so I don't think you can get that brand anymore, but other companies make them now. I think Aqueon is the one they sell at Petsmart. You just hook it up to your sink, drain the water straight into the sink, and then fill back up from the tap. No lugging heavy buckets of water. :)

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Although if I'm not mistaken Python actually went out of business so I don't think you can get that brand anymore

Great news for you Python fans out there. They are officially back in business :)

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Although if I'm not mistaken Python actually went out of business so I don't think you can get that brand anymore

Great news for you Python fans out there. They are officially back in business :)

Oh yay! Just the other week I accidentally dropped my Python and one of the connectors broke. >.< Luckily I was able to order a replacement part on eBay (what would I do without eBay), but it's good to know that they're back! :)

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aslo photos of your set up would help us too :)

also here's a picture of the setup. quality is crappy. I have a very thin layer of sand just to add contrast against the background. might add more later. I don't have lights currently so I'm using a regular lamp (away from the water). Water is also a little murky but it should clear up soon.

110 gallons

Rena xp3 filter (now known as the filstar)

Bubble maker

9icysw.jpg

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I'll keep searching for ammonia. The store worker I spoke to said that the blend I bought contains everything required to properly cycle the tank.

http://www.microbeli.../special-blend/

Store employees are sadly rarely knowledgeable about anything. I would honestly never ever trust a pet store employee's opinion unless you have some real evidence that they actually know what they are talking about, all too often people (especially beginner aquariusts) are led astray be pet store employees because they assume should know what they're talking about because they work at a pet store, but it's unfortunately rare that they actually do. I'll get off my soap box now :P

Products such as microbe lift are designed to help along a cycle by supposedly adding the beneficial bacteria that cycle the tank (I say supposedly because these products are a bit of a crap shoot). However, they do not contain the ammonia that the beneficial require to establish and grow. These products are generally meant (marketed) to be used when you are cycling with fish, so the fish produce the ammonia that these bacteria require. Fishless cycling is still a relatively new concept to many aquariusts, so there aren't ever instructions for this on the side of the bottle ;)

Regardless, fish or liquid ammonia, these products will not instantly make it safe to add fish (as many claim), they can help along your cycle, but the BB's still require time to establish :)

All that said, you should definitely use this product, it may speed up your cycle a bit :) But keep looking for that ammonia :)

I finally found ammonia. It does foam and it is colorless. I'm ready to start the cycle. Can someone guide me please?

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